Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV

[Bruce Wayne]

Could be. But I think it was more than that. The University is prioritizing academics more and more and wanting their image to be pristine. Pruitt and Fulmer wanted to win at all costs and the University didn’t want that. Bama and Georgia care about nothing but winning and they are winning. I think it was a difference in views and not wanting anything bad to come down on the university. Just my opinion though.

There’s win at all cost and then there’s stupid. Pruitt was the latter.

 

[butchna]

It was a complete misrepresentation of what I said, but whatever.

I found my stopping point with you on this discussion but when you say "recruiting needs to improve" what SPECIFICALLY do you advocate changing? You emphasize no firings and acknowledge the difficulties that are being overcome (or not). What's an example of a workable solution that is not being done?

 

[Weezer]

Except that you are expressing uninformed opinions. It's not about blind faith or making accusations. The reality is that society has lost patience, and that is in ALL aspects of life.

So your opinion is my opinion is uninformed? I disagree.

 

[bigorange]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Audits don't report such things. That would be insanity. Private companies are audited all the time and are highly protective of their specifics.

A standard financial audit is a way to report and grade the "fairness and accuracy" of the represented financial figures and transactions.

It simply gives investors and other external users (creditors typically) an independent report that can put many at ease and give assurances.

You can tell I’ve never been audited or been involved in one haha

 

[Dudley Smith]

Alright I'm going to give everyone some notes from Swain this morning, since apparently it was must-listen:

And after listening and typing this out, this podcast episode should be REQUIRED LISTENING. Please share this info with other fans. Gain perspective, provide perspective.

On Neyor:
- our passion is unrivaled, our fans love the program and support the program/team
- our same passion that is our superpower is also our curse
- Neyor had great RFr year at Wyoming, will be a pro player
- initial reports were he could go, and where the experts expected him to look - all TX schools (Texas, A&M, Baylor), because HE'S FROM TEXAS
- Tennessee shot their shot, pushed hard on Neyor, got commitment
- Swain and crew initial reaction when Neyor committed - shocked and surprised, very surprised. Not that he picked TN, but that he picked TN so quickly and without visiting.
- Think that most fans had the same reaction about Neyor surprise commitment - "ok, wow, who is this guy" (as an aside, I agree with this)
- committing like that without visiting is so abnormal
- Who was last player to commit without visiting? - Bryce Brown
- Our biggest strength, which is our passion, is also one of our biggest weaknesses
- There is a narrative now that we aren't doing anything with NIL, and it has been repeated WAY MORE THAN IT SHOULD, now people actually think it's the truth
- Most fans would not be saying this if they knew what was really going on, if they really had inside info
- Some fans choose to be upset, choose to believe false info, choose to share false info - that is on YOU (you are a miserable person)
- This is not worth freaking out about
- Neyor initially said that he wanted to stay close to home, translates to a high priority
- gets on phone with TN, talks to coaches, talks to players, without a visit he commits
- use your brain, what does that tell you? He says he wants to stay home, but commits to a school 12 hours away
- this means that Tennessee was VERY CONVINCING (NIL) - we had a great deal for him
- we pulled a player from TX, who said he wanted to stay home, he tried to talk about what he liked when he committed, but between the lines he was saying that the deal was good
- so if our NIL is so bad, how the hell did we get a kid to commit without even visiting??
- Obviously our NIL program is in place to be strong enough to pull kids without them even visiting
- Fear the whole time was that Texas would enter the picture
- Tennessee was never worried about Ole Miss - they don't have a NIL program like we do, they don't have the other factors that we have that have always made us a more attractive program
- Swain thought that he was going to Texas as soon as he stepped on campus there, for all of the reasons that we have discussed on this board (Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV)
- Texas wouldn't be worth a damn if they couldn't get a kid from Texas that they intended to get, that liked Texas
- Same deal with us and Trey Smith, and Cade
- We have a ton of non-millionaires telling millionaires what they should be doing with THEIR MONEY, and they don't even know that those same boosters/donors are HELPING
- WE HAVE PROMINENT FORMER PLAYERS INVOLVED IN HELPING WITH NIL - think about who you think that may be
- NIL is not going to be a problem
- what is a problem? NIL + the new transfer portal has created insanity. Two new rules at the same time that would change the game on their own.
- now you have players getting in the portal just to see how much money they can get from other schools, then deciding if they want to leave or not
- the environment now is that if you have ONE GOOD YEAR (like Neyor), you can hop in the portal now and get money
- most would do the same thing, when you have leverage you use it
- The meltdown outrage is NOT WORTH IT with Neyor and it's MISGUIDED and it's based on BAD INFO
- he wanted to be closer to home, his family wanted to come to the games, he is an hour away now
- our offense and system is way more attractive than what Texas had going on, but people make decisions based on whatever is important to them
- he committed WITHOUT TAKING A VISIT - a guy that grew up in Texas, that loved Texas, raised to love Texas, and he wanted to be home
- Simply put - Tennessee did not lose out on Neyor based on NIL
- We had a great deal for him.
- Word on the street about Neyor was that Tennessee had outbid everyone else, but it came down to location/home for him

On the state of the program and our standing with NCAA, how that is impacting the goings on:
- Jeremy Pruitt got caught RED HANDED, and it's the reason that everyone got fired
- Tennessee told the NCAA what they were going to do in regards to punishing ourselves, they still played in the bowl game (implying that the NCAA would have liked for us not to have played in bowl game(s))
- There is another narrative that Tennessee is scared of the NCAA, but we played in the bowl game
- but we got caught red handed so we have to do SOMETHING, besides firing everyone
- That means - reduction of scholarships, limiting eval time
- as soon as Spring is over, Tennessee will be able to get back into the hunt and start adding players to this roster
- but right now we cannot do that because we are still serving out our little bit of time - we are like in the halfway house right now, or on house arrest. Light at the end of the tunnel but we're still locked down.
- this is the LAST STRETCH, we have a couple more months then we have satisfied what you told the NCAA that you were gonna do
- we got caught, we told the NCAA what we were going to do, and that's it - that's pretty good
- so we can't take 5, 6, 7 dudes from the portal right now like others
- DO NOT LET F.O.M.O. GET TO YOU - we aren't missing out
- What did TN do after spring last year? they added transfers. they already proved that they could do that.
- but narratives have been created - the sky is falling, the staff isn't doing a good job
- sometimes you just won't know what the plan is, and you have to be ok with that
- WE CAN'T JUST TELL EVERYONE WHAT WE'RE DOING

Swain: "I wish I was coming out right now and was about to get that deal that Neyor was about to get at Tennessee."

More Swain:

- Heupel is still suffering from the actions of Pruitt
- we have a few more weeks, we are through the worst part, but you're not through the woods YET
- what did people expect? when you get caught for what pruitt was doing, you're going to feel it
- thinks what TN has been doing has been great, you don't put your head in the sand and hope it goes away
- the best play things tight and get through it, keep it in the family
- people aren't getting the facts, so they're assuming the worst, it's understandable
- plus the fact that bad things happen to this program all the time, it's understandable
- BUT WE CAN'T MELTDOWN OVER EVERYTHING, it's exhausting and it fits the narrative that the national media puts out there about us
- People are hating on Danny White because of this, which is misplaced
- Spyre is doing great things. We don't understand. They are working with boosters. Biggest boosters. All over the state. All over the country. Boosters that used to butt heads that are getting along now. They are regular fans like us, but they have a plan and it's working.
- just wait and watch what Spyre is about to do
- Spyre is going to take out best asset, our passion, and make Tennessee a top school in the NIL game
- wrap this around your head - you are not outbidding A&M
- "you are going to have a lot of haves and have nots, the separation is going to grow. the teams that step up with NIL will separate themselves." - Kirby Smart said this
- why are Kirby and Saban worried about this? because they see A&M stepping up, they know what we're doing
- "NIL was supposed to be a positive thing for players, their ability to earn is not a bad thing. I'm worried about how it is being used to lure players. we need legislation. there will be an imbalance."
- Saban and Kirby are acting like they aren't the top dogs. and they're nervous! because they see A&M, and multiple A&M's coming for them
- they had mastered how to buy players and get away with it. now everyone can buy players in the open, and they're worried.
- we are set up and prepared to do this.

it is important to know the truth in regards to Neyor and NIL, please understand these facts and share them

I agree with Swain, that should be required listening/reading

Thank you Steve for your public service of taking all this down and posting it. Maybe some people will start to believe it now that Swain has said it publicly.

We are a brand and a fan base that it well-positioned to succeed in the NIL age. Programs like Bama and UGA's typical annual slush fund for paying players under the table has been about $500k, give or take. They have an established infrastructure for distributing it that most schools don't have, and those who try to replicate it end up passing cash in McDonald's bags and failing miserably. NIL money is going to put that old way of doing business to shame and they are going to look like the local bookie on the corner when the Harrah's Sports Book opens up across town. People should start embracing it and getting involved.

 

[Devo182]

All of this info from Swain makes A LOT of sense. Here’s my guess…our scholly reduction started last spring and is for a year. We knew with all the transfers out we could never get to full numbers, so we penalized ourselves with a massive reduction for one year, even before the case was closed by the lawyers we hired. The one year huge reduction ends after spring, and I think after that we will see massive portal transfers to us. I think we have kids who are already locked up and are staying where they are currently until we have room available after the scholly reduction penalty ends. I expect 10 or more transfers after the spring that will get us back to full numbers. That’s why we only took 20 in this class. We could actually take up to 12 transfers, and I’m guessing we may do just that.

We began to impose a 10 scholarship reduction way before the investigation was even close to being done?

 

[VolGee4]

So your opinion is my opinion is uninformed? I disagree.

If you truly have all of the facts to opine about our "struggles" with recruiting the portal...then more power to you. But please keep forming an opinion on things.

 

[Voltime123]

It's time for them to tell us what exactly Pruitt did. I have heard over and over that he got caught red handed but no one is saying what he actually did. There's only so long that we take it on blind faith. Had Pruitt been even slightly more popular, folks would've already demanded answers. I trust that we did the right thing here but I'm also at the point where a tax payer funded institution has to start giving answers beyond 'trust us.'

That would be suicide the last thing this program needs is dirty laundry let out to the press over the infractions. No we are doing this the right way by already firing the people involved and laying low and enforcing penalties on ourselves to show we are compliant. Making a spectacle of what happened just to let the fans know what happened only hurts the university, there is no gain in making our infractions public knowledge.

 

[butchna]

I guess I'm not getting you, but you're also not getting me. I choose to see both the positive and the negative. I'm not choosing one side over the other. I'm choosing truth. The truth is we've pursued 3 portal targets. First Verse, then Neyor and the WF RB. We got none of them. That's struggling. I'm not being negative IMO, I'm stating the truth. I'm not lambasting the coaches and calling for their heads, I'm simply stating what has happened. We can list the multiple whys, but none of that changes what is.

How are you privy to the truth about the WF RB? Never saw him as a priority reading anything on two boards.

 

[UTProf]

They have some stuff out for a couple of the lady VOLS, NIL for Lady Vols Jordan Horston, Tamari Key gets sweeter with player ‘shirzee’

Women at UT are going to benefit bigly from the LV pushback. If this were still folded into the men - they'd never see a dime and we all know it.

 

[Weezer]

I found my stopping point with you on this discussion but when you say "recruiting needs to improve" what SPECIFICALLY do you advocate changing? You emphasize no firings and acknowledge the difficulties that are being overcome (or not). What's an example of a workable solution that is not being done?

It's an observation. What needs to improve specifically I can't say simply because there's a lot we don't know. But it's not wrong to say we're struggling at recruiting when we missed on our last 3 targets. I actually have faith Heupel will fix the problem, but I don't see why we can't acknowledge there is a problem? Are we supposed to pretend it's not a problem? I mean, we all do agree that there are holes on this team, right? I think we do anyway. I also seem to recall all of us being hopeful of filling those holes through the portal. Now, I understand we still have the Spring, but we have clearly targeted certain players, and we didn't get those players. Are we not allowed to talk about that?

 

[butchna]

It's time for them to tell us what exactly Pruitt did. I have heard over and over that he got caught red handed but no one is saying what he actually did. There's only so long that we take it on blind faith. Had Pruitt been even slightly more popular, folks would've already demanded answers. I trust that we did the right thing here but I'm also at the point where a tax payer funded institution has to start giving answers beyond 'trust us.'

That comes with the NOA...patience grasshopper.

 

[Batman1948]

Alright I'm going to give everyone some notes from Swain this morning, since apparently it was must-listen:

And after listening and typing this out, this podcast episode should be REQUIRED LISTENING. Please share this info with other fans. Gain perspective, provide perspective.

On Neyor:
- our passion is unrivaled, our fans love the program and support the program/team
- our same passion that is our superpower is also our curse
- Neyor had great RFr year at Wyoming, will be a pro player
- initial reports were he could go, and where the experts expected him to look - all TX schools (Texas, A&M, Baylor), because HE'S FROM TEXAS
- Tennessee shot their shot, pushed hard on Neyor, got commitment
- Swain and crew initial reaction when Neyor committed - shocked and surprised, very surprised. Not that he picked TN, but that he picked TN so quickly and without visiting.
- Think that most fans had the same reaction about Neyor surprise commitment - "ok, wow, who is this guy" (as an aside, I agree with this)
- committing like that without visiting is so abnormal
- Who was last player to commit without visiting? - Bryce Brown
- Our biggest strength, which is our passion, is also one of our biggest weaknesses
- There is a narrative now that we aren't doing anything with NIL, and it has been repeated WAY MORE THAN IT SHOULD, now people actually think it's the truth
- Most fans would not be saying this if they knew what was really going on, if they really had inside info
- Some fans choose to be upset, choose to believe false info, choose to share false info - that is on YOU (you are a miserable person)
- This is not worth freaking out about
- Neyor initially said that he wanted to stay close to home, translates to a high priority
- gets on phone with TN, talks to coaches, talks to players, without a visit he commits
- use your brain, what does that tell you? He says he wants to stay home, but commits to a school 12 hours away
- this means that Tennessee was VERY CONVINCING (NIL) - we had a great deal for him
- we pulled a player from TX, who said he wanted to stay home, he tried to talk about what he liked when he committed, but between the lines he was saying that the deal was good
- so if our NIL is so bad, how the hell did we get a kid to commit without even visiting??
- Obviously our NIL program is in place to be strong enough to pull kids without them even visiting
- Fear the whole time was that Texas would enter the picture
- Tennessee was never worried about Ole Miss - they don't have a NIL program like we do, they don't have the other factors that we have that have always made us a more attractive program
- Swain thought that he was going to Texas as soon as he stepped on campus there, for all of the reasons that we have discussed on this board (Recruiting Forum Football Talk IV)
- Texas wouldn't be worth a damn if they couldn't get a kid from Texas that they intended to get, that liked Texas
- Same deal with us and Trey Smith, and Cade
- We have a ton of non-millionaires telling millionaires what they should be doing with THEIR MONEY, and they don't even know that those same boosters/donors are HELPING
- WE HAVE PROMINENT FORMER PLAYERS INVOLVED IN HELPING WITH NIL - think about who you think that may be
- NIL is not going to be a problem
- what is a problem? NIL + the new transfer portal has created insanity. Two new rules at the same time that would change the game on their own.
- now you have players getting in the portal just to see how much money they can get from other schools, then deciding if they want to leave or not
- the environment now is that if you have ONE GOOD YEAR (like Neyor), you can hop in the portal now and get money
- most would do the same thing, when you have leverage you use it
- The meltdown outrage is NOT WORTH IT with Neyor and it's MISGUIDED and it's based on BAD INFO
- he wanted to be closer to home, his family wanted to come to the games, he is an hour away now
- our offense and system is way more attractive than what Texas had going on, but people make decisions based on whatever is important to them
- he committed WITHOUT TAKING A VISIT - a guy that grew up in Texas, that loved Texas, raised to love Texas, and he wanted to be home
- Simply put - Tennessee did not lose out on Neyor based on NIL
- We had a great deal for him.
- Word on the street about Neyor was that Tennessee had outbid everyone else, but it came down to location/home for him

On the state of the program and our standing with NCAA, how that is impacting the goings on:
- Jeremy Pruitt got caught RED HANDED, and it's the reason that everyone got fired
- Tennessee told the NCAA what they were going to do in regards to punishing ourselves, they still played in the bowl game (implying that the NCAA would have liked for us not to have played in bowl game(s))
- There is another narrative that Tennessee is scared of the NCAA, but we played in the bowl game
- but we got caught red handed so we have to do SOMETHING, besides firing everyone
- That means - reduction of scholarships, limiting eval time
- as soon as Spring is over, Tennessee will be able to get back into the hunt and start adding players to this roster
- but right now we cannot do that because we are still serving out our little bit of time - we are like in the halfway house right now, or on house arrest. Light at the end of the tunnel but we're still locked down.
- this is the LAST STRETCH, we have a couple more months then we have satisfied what you told the NCAA that you were gonna do
- we got caught, we told the NCAA what we were going to do, and that's it - that's pretty good
- so we can't take 5, 6, 7 dudes from the portal right now like others
- DO NOT LET F.O.M.O. GET TO YOU - we aren't missing out
- What did TN do after spring last year? they added transfers. they already proved that they could do that.
- but narratives have been created - the sky is falling, the staff isn't doing a good job
- sometimes you just won't know what the plan is, and you have to be ok with that
- WE CAN'T JUST TELL EVERYONE WHAT WE'RE DOING

Swain: "I wish I was coming out right now and was about to get that deal that Neyor was about to get at Tennessee."

Steve, I agree with everything you said but Austin is not an hour away from Arlington unless you have an amazingly fast jet . Everything else sounds solid though

 

[Weezer]

If you truly have all of the facts to opine about our "struggles" with recruiting the portal...then more power to you. But please keep forming an opinion on things.

Do you have all the facts? Does that prevent you from having some kind of opinion?

 

[VolGee4]

Do you have all the facts? Does that prevent you from having some kind of opinion?

I am being patient and have only said that there appear to be other factors that the staff is dealing with. May not know for a bit. I know that's difficult for some folks.

 

[Devo182]

You can tell I’ve never been audited or been involved in one haha

as an individual, me too and let's keep it that way.

Businesses go through em all the time just out of necessity, otherwise it'd be hard to get a line of credit, a business loan, or sell stock. Jmo but Spyre would be smart to accept one. It would ease so many minds. I'm sure we'd all be fine with .1% going towards an annual audit. Would be well worth it for them and the donors.

 

[CobbVol]

So for those who think we are struggling in recruiting, HC Heupel was hired almost 1 year ago. This time last year, did you think we would have a class ranked in the 11-15 range as it is now? To say we are struggling, you must have thought our class would be ranked in the Top10 - correct?

 

[Batman1948]

I hope this is true.

You know, deep down in your heart, you're not gonna believe any of what he wrote

 

[butchna]

It's an observation. What needs to improve specifically I can't say simply because there's a lot we don't know. But it's not wrong to say we're struggling at recruiting when we missed on our last 3 targets. I actually have faith Heupel will fix the problem, but I don't see why we can't acknowledge there is a problem? Are we supposed to pretend it's not a problem? I mean, we all do agree that there are holes on this team, right? I think we do anyway. I also seem to recall all of us being hopeful of filling those holes through the portal. Now, I understand we still have the Spring, but we have clearly targeted certain players, and we didn't get those players. Are we not allowed to talk about that?

I asked a valid question. You don't have an answer. That's fine...just acknowledge. Where in my question did you read you not being allowed to talk about anything?

 

[Weezer]

How are you privy to the truth about the WF RB? Never saw him as a priority reading anything on two boards.

It was put out there that for some reason the staff wanted a transfer RB, and he was the one targeted. I don't know the whys.

 

[VolGee4]

That would be suicide the last thing this program needs is dirty laundry let out to the press over the infractions. No we are doing this the right way by already firing the people involved and laying low and enforcing penalties on ourselves to show we are compliant. Making a spectacle of what happened just to let the fans know what happened only hurts the university, there is no gain in making our infractions public knowledge.

Just like people wanting the university to acknowledge publicly the number of possible self-imposed scholarship reductions. Why would we do that? To tell our opponents how many we have? No thanks.

 

[Batman1948]

Well, I will say this the average draft position for a Manning in the NFL draft is pick 1.3333 overall. All 3 drafted will probably be NFL HOFer's and college HOFer's. I would say that may not be a bad return on investment for the price.

You left out Super Bowl winners for everyone except dad

 

[Weezer]

I am being patient and have only said that there appear to be other factors that the staff is dealing with. May not know for a bit. I know that's difficult for some folks.

The staff may very well be in an impossible position, but we know they've pursued certain players.

 

[butchna]

It was put out there that for some reason the staff wanted a transfer RB, and he was the one targeted. I don't know the whys.

Anything I can read for myself? Never saw him specified on here or VQ.