Coronavirus (No politics)

[Lankykong]

Actually, chances of contracting Covid are not reduced with the vaccine, but chances of DYING from Covid ARE reduced. You can still get it, but the vaccine will have "educated" your cells how to deal with it so that the symptoms will be less severe.

On the other hand, wearing a N-95 mask WILL help prevent catching it in the first place because a good mask can keep you from breathing in as many virus spores. The more virus spores you breathe in, the more likely they'll mount an effective attack on your body.

There is a nuanced version where you are correct in that the vaccine doesn’t stop the virus from entering your body.

Vaccinations can stop COVID from replicating enough for a person to be able to spread the condition/feel symptoms, which most people would describe as not “having COVID”. CDC says that it lessens the chance of contracting COVID, which is likely using this definition. COVID-19 Vaccination

 

[lvocd]

Rumor is that Fulky has it again and won't be available for next game. People are questioning how he can have it since he has been vaccinated and has already had it. So, I posted this over on the men's board, but since I see our Lady Vol players and staff are regularly seen posing for photos, unmasked, with unmasked fans, I thought I'd post this here.

The vaccine doesn't create a magic forcefield around your body to prevent the virus from entering. So, yes, the contagious virus will, and does, enter the bodies of the vaccinated people like Fulky. What the vaccine DOES do, however -- and very well -- is teach your body's cells how to greatly reduce the harmful effects of the virus once it has entered. Getting the vaccine gives your cells information they need to fight it, not prevent it from being there in the first place. And wearing a mask can decrease the viral load you take into your body through your nose and mouth, making those "vaccine educated" cells have fewer harmful virus spores to have to deal with, thus making it even more difficult for the virus to spread quickly.

It is bothering the hell out of me when I am seeing our players and staff hugging on and/or posing for pictures with fans without either of them wearing masks. My fear is that Kellie is under the wrong impression that the team doesn't have to be as strict with the masking since nearly everyone is vaccinated. THIS IS WRONG.

So, friends -- please wear a N-95 mask if you want to interact with strangers at ball games, whether you are vaccinated or not.

 

[sjt18]

When natural immunity begins to disappear after only a few months,, this virus will continue to mutate and it will be around for ever.

There is evidence that natural immunity is persistent and FAR more persistent and effective than any of the vaccines. I hope I can find the article but a European expert when discussing Omicron speculated that the mutations and especially those like Omicron would act as boosters to immunity until that phenomenon actually brings us out of it. He is an advocate of vaccines and believes they contribute to that end. Another study however found that the vaccines actually interfere with the development of natural immunity to Covid. You won't hear that from the MSM or Fauci because they favor the vaccines... you can come up with your own reasons why but it could be as "innocent" as them attempting to manipulate the public into the "right" solution or as malignant as wanting to assure their pals can sell more vaccine. Either way, studies that run against the narrative get squelched. If the source had been American... this would have never seen the light of day.

https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/1...3i_HkSTzgL3VJqRyvSDRG_9lBhdIN0IbsRMuvVHTUdsV8

This means that hospitals will continue to be overcrowded and turn away patients who need treatment for other conditions and illnesses.

Yeah Chik'n Lil we heard that when Covid spiked last January too. The wave hit and then it faded. That will keep happening with this virus and its variants until herd immunity is achieved.

We would continue to be in the same condition we have suffered through for the last two years. No one can predict how severe new variants will be

Wow. And you actually accused me of being "under informed". With rare exception, virus mutations result in less virulent strains. BEFORE Covid and thus not tainted by political narratives there was a medical debate about the wisdom of "leaky vaccines"... like the ones available for Covid. They appeared to contributed to more virulent mutations.

Please feel free to click through to the actual study behind this report. EVERY American should read this article and especially if they are pro-vax and especially if they think there should be mandates. Remember, this was just some boring research report 8 months before Covid was detected.

‘Leaky’ Vaccines Can Produce Stronger Versions of Viruses

and if current vaccines can provide any protection. Try to realize the numbers of humans who would have and continue to die fro the flu if the 60% or more of o population did not or could not take the flu vaccine. Failure to protect populations from diseases wold be a perfect to reduce the World’s population. In fact you or me might have ever born if there were no vaccines.

I'm not anti-vax. I took the pneumonia vaccine last year. I took the shingles and flu vaccines this year... on the same day, OUCH.

I am specifically opposed to these vaccines in the way that they're being promoted. I am VERY suspicious of the "experts" pushing these policies because they given us MORE than ample reason not to trust them. I'm not a Trump fan. I voted 3rd party in the last two elections because I could not in good conscience say that Bill Clinton lacked the character needed to be POTUS while Trump had it. However the "nation's top medical officials" opposed the use of HCQ even to the point of banning it. It has been in use for decades to treat inflammation associated with various diseases. It is safe. But Trump promoted it and the media mocked it. Then about a week after the election those same medical officials permitted an official report to come out verifying that in fact HCQ was effective in helping treat Covid symptoms.... and lowered death rates.

Similarly, they demanded mask mandates. When you tried to dig down to the actual science behind the use of masks to prevent the spread of Covid... the most significant thing I ever found was a previous study of flu patients with very serious symptoms. Nothing specific to Covid. Now two years later... mask advocates are STILL trying to claim that "science" behind their demands. A meta-data study from earlier in the year revealed two things. One, mask mandates increased mask usage. Two, areas with mask mandates fared no different from those without in terms of cases, spread, or deaths. Masks were ineffective as a means to prevent spread. But that's not something you're hearing from the MSM either.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Actually, chances of contracting Covid are not reduced with the vaccine, but chances of DYING from Covid ARE reduced. You can still get it, but the vaccine will have "educated" your cells how to deal with it so that the symptoms will be less severe.

On the other hand, wearing a N-95 mask WILL help prevent catching it in the first place because a good mask can keep you from breathing in as many virus spores. The more virus spores you breathe in, the more likely they'll mount an effective attack on your body.

The vaccine reduces viral load lessening the chance of infecting others, or experiencing severe symptoms.

 

[Hacksaw]

I get my information from the scientific community including the CDC, medical publications, and peer reviewed publications from the scientific community. I do not rely on the news media, Facebook, or other uninformed sources.

Gettin' deep in here...

 

[sjt18]

I get my information from the scientific community including the CDC, medical publications, and peer reviewed publications from the scientific community. I do not rely on the news media, Facebook, or other uninformed sources.

Nor am I. Follow the links I posted. I didn't link to facebook or anything of the sort. If you are impressed with publications from the scientific community... then those should impress you. If you are impressed by simple, straightforward facts... then the raw data from MO should impress you.

As for the CDC, it and NIH are HIGHLY politicized RE Covid. CDC for instance claims that we cannot know how effective or lasting natural immunity will be... but confidently declare the vaccines safe and effective. The MO data I posted earlier refutes that notion. There ARE studies including one from Washington U in STL showing that when acquired immunity is verified... it is both effective and lasting. The caveat to that is that some % of those infected do not acquire immunity through recovery.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

There is evidence that natural immunity is persistent and FAR more persistent and effective than any of the vaccines. I hope I can find the article but a European expert when discussing Omicron speculated that the mutations and especially those like Omicron would act as boosters to immunity until that phenomenon actually brings us out of it. He is an advocate of vaccines and believes they contribute to that end. Another study however found that the vaccines actually interfere with the development of natural immunity to Covid. You won't hear that from the MSM or Fauci because they favor the vaccines... you can come up with your own reasons why but it could be as "innocent" as them attempting to manipulate the public into the "right" solution or as malignant as wanting to assure their pals can sell more vaccine. Either way, studies that run against the narrative get squelched. If the source had been American... this would have never seen the light of day.

https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/1...3i_HkSTzgL3VJqRyvSDRG_9lBhdIN0IbsRMuvVHTUdsV8

Yeah Chik'n Lil we heard that when Covid spiked last January too. The wave hit and then it faded. That will keep happening with this virus and its variants until herd immunity is achieved.

Wow. And you actually accused me of being "under informed". With rare exception, virus mutations result in less virulent strains. BEFORE Covid and thus not tainted by political narratives there was a medical debate about the wisdom of "leaky vaccines"... like the ones available for Covid. They appeared to contributed to more virulent mutations.

Please feel free to click through to the actual study behind this report. EVERY American should read this article and especially if they are pro-vax and especially if they think there should be mandates. Remember, this was just some boring research report 8 months before Covid was detected.

‘Leaky’ Vaccines Can Produce Stronger Versions of Viruses


I'm not anti-vax. I took the pneumonia vaccine last year. I took the shingles and flu vaccines this year... on the same day, OUCH.

I am specifically opposed to these vaccines in the way that they're being promoted. I am VERY suspicious of the "experts" pushing these policies because they given us MORE than ample reason not to trust them. I'm not a Trump fan. I voted 3rd party in the last two elections because I could not in good conscience say that Bill Clinton lacked the character needed to be POTUS while Trump had it. However the "nation's top medical officials" opposed the use of HCQ even to the point of banning it. It has been in use for decades to treat inflammation associated with various diseases. It is safe. But Trump promoted it and the media mocked it. Then about a week after the election those same medical officials permitted an official report to come out verifying that in fact HCQ was effective in helping treat Covid symptoms.... and lowered death rates.

Similarly, they demanded mask mandates. When you tried to dig down to the actual science behind the use of masks to prevent the spread of Covid... the most significant thing I ever found was a previous study of flu patients with very serious symptoms. Nothing specific to Covid. Now two years later... mask advocates are STILL trying to claim that "science" behind their demands. A meta-data study from earlier in the year revealed two things. One, mask mandates increased mask usage. Two, areas with mask mandates fared no different from those without in terms of cases, spread, or deaths. Masks were ineffective as a means to prevent spread. But that's not something you're hearing from the MSM either.

Enough is enough. Nothing is going to be solved by our bickering about the subject. Time to let this rest.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Nor am I. Follow the links I posted. I didn't link to facebook or anything of the sort. If you are impressed with publications from the scientific community... then those should impress you. If you are impressed by simple, straightforward facts... then the raw data from MO should impress you.

As for the CDC, it and NIH are HIGHLY politicized RE Covid. CDC for instance claims that we cannot know how effective or lasting natural immunity will be... but confidently declare the vaccines safe and effective. The MO data I posted earlier refutes that notion. There ARE studies including one from Washington U in STL showing that when acquired immunity is verified... it is both effective and lasting. The caveat to that is that some % of those infected do not acquire immunity through recovery.

Science is facts; politics are the twisting of facts.

 

[UTgrad2015]

flu?

I’m honestly not sure. My wife is a nurse and was going to get a flu test for me but I started feeling better. It was really strange though.. I feel brand new today!

 

[sjt18]

Science is facts; politics are the twisting of facts.

Yes. And CDC and NIH are VERY politicized over Covid. Fauci is far more politician than scientist. Remember... how many months were these folks assuring us that the idea that Covid resulted from gain of function research in Wuhan was ridiculous? Remember how people were labeled "conspiracy theorists" for pointing out that after such research was banned in the US (I believe under Obama) "scientists" associated with and under Fauci moved it to China? We now know for a fact that the first is true and all of the known facts line up for the 2nd to be true.

For his part, Fauci first laughed and scoffed at the idea of mass mask usage. He then kind of favored it. Then he opposed it again... and finally became a mask zealot. Science wise... he was right the first time. But then politics got in the way. They had to show they were "doing something"... when really there was almost nothing they could do. The vaccines were months away at best. Treatments were being trialed and often failing. Essentially they needed and initiated a propaganda campaign. All politics.

 

[Orange_Crush]

There is evidence that natural immunity is persistent and FAR more persistent and effective than any of the vaccines. I hope I can find the article but a European expert when discussing Omicron speculated that the mutations and especially those like Omicron would act as boosters to immunity until that phenomenon actually brings us out of it. He is an advocate of vaccines and believes they contribute to that end. Another study however found that the vaccines actually interfere with the development of natural immunity to Covid. You won't hear that from the MSM or Fauci because they favor the vaccines... you can come up with your own reasons why but it could be as "innocent" as them attempting to manipulate the public into the "right" solution or as malignant as wanting to assure their pals can sell more vaccine. Either way, studies that run against the narrative get squelched. If the source had been American... this would have never seen the light of day.

https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/13/1...3i_HkSTzgL3VJqRyvSDRG_9lBhdIN0IbsRMuvVHTUdsV8

Yeah Chik'n Lil we heard that when Covid spiked last January too. The wave hit and then it faded. That will keep happening with this virus and its variants until herd immunity is achieved.

Wow. And you actually accused me of being "under informed". With rare exception, virus mutations result in less virulent strains. BEFORE Covid and thus not tainted by political narratives there was a medical debate about the wisdom of "leaky vaccines"... like the ones available for Covid. They appeared to contributed to more virulent mutations.

Please feel free to click through to the actual study behind this report. EVERY American should read this article and especially if they are pro-vax and especially if they think there should be mandates. Remember, this was just some boring research report 8 months before Covid was detected.

‘Leaky’ Vaccines Can Produce Stronger Versions of Viruses


I'm not anti-vax. I took the pneumonia vaccine last year. I took the shingles and flu vaccines this year... on the same day, OUCH.

I am specifically opposed to these vaccines in the way that they're being promoted. I am VERY suspicious of the "experts" pushing these policies because they given us MORE than ample reason not to trust them. I'm not a Trump fan. I voted 3rd party in the last two elections because I could not in good conscience say that Bill Clinton lacked the character needed to be POTUS while Trump had it. However the "nation's top medical officials" opposed the use of HCQ even to the point of banning it. It has been in use for decades to treat inflammation associated with various diseases. It is safe. But Trump promoted it and the media mocked it. Then about a week after the election those same medical officials permitted an official report to come out verifying that in fact HCQ was effective in helping treat Covid symptoms.... and lowered death rates.

Similarly, they demanded mask mandates. When you tried to dig down to the actual science behind the use of masks to prevent the spread of Covid... the most significant thing I ever found was a previous study of flu patients with very serious symptoms. Nothing specific to Covid. Now two years later... mask advocates are STILL trying to claim that "science" behind their demands. A meta-data study from earlier in the year revealed two things. One, mask mandates increased mask usage. Two, areas with mask mandates fared no different from those without in terms of cases, spread, or deaths. Masks were ineffective as a means to prevent spread. But that's not something you're hearing from the MSM either.

In before the next: "You must get your info from facebook" retort.

 

[sjt18]

Note to the moderator. I DIDN'T POST HERE. SOMEONE MOVED IT.

 

[sjt18]

Enough is enough. Nothing is going to be solved by our bickering about the subject. Time to let this rest.

Nothing will be resolved by ignoring the actual science or supporting those who do either.

This has become politicized. Science isn't by consensus. Science by nature is always questioning conclusions. But to question conclusions about Covid from "the officials" gets one ostracized or worse.

If you look at nothing else just follow the link to MO Covid data and look at all the info on the breakthrough page and the reinfection page. When the real world results do not line up with the predictions of studies... and officials continue to act as if the studies are absolute truth... should you trust those experts? Are they acting as scientists or something else?

 

[sjt18]

The vaccine reduces viral load lessening the chance of infecting others, or experiencing severe symptoms.

Yes and no. There is conflicting information about the viral loads of vaxed people. However they CAN infect others. The thing that makes them more dangerous is that they often have very mild symptoms and do not know that they have a significant viral load.

They do experience less severe symptoms however the data I posted above from MO clearly shows that the effectiveness of vaccines drops pretty quickly. Since vaccines have become available until now, the % of cases has risen from virtually none to almost 40% of all new cases. Hospitalizations among the fully vaxed have risen significantly locally over the last 3 months. About 14% of new cases are among the fully vaxed (and rising). About 11% of deaths were fully vaxed.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

You’re trying to present complex data as a binary narrative. You’re out of your depth.

 

[sjt18]

You’re trying to present complex data as a binary narrative. You’re out of your depth.

Nope. Just rejecting the idea that a SINGLE "official" narrative should be accepted uncritically and especially considering how misleading that narrative has often been over the last two years.

Here's more that is "science" but is being downplayed because it runs against the narratives.

Early assessment of the clinical severity of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant in South Africa | medRxiv

 

[MAD]

SARS-CoV-2 infects the human kidney and drives fibrosis in kidney organoids

DEFINE_ME

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

 

[BenGrimm]

That was pre-Delta. Nice try to seed doubt, Clay.

Can still be said the risk of infection, symptoms, and especially hospitalization is drastically minimized.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

That was pre-Delta. Nice try to seed doubt, Clay.

Can still be said the risk of infection, symptoms, and especially hospitalization is drastically minimized.

He said risk of infection!

 

[Jackcrevol]

I’m honestly not sure. My wife is a nurse and was going to get a flu test for me but I started feeling better. It was really strange though.. I feel brand new today!

May be Covid. Omicron app has a very short lifespan. Hell CDC is saying 5 days off now.

Read an article about a one size fits all Vaccine via Walter Reed, Govt issued. High efficacy, single dose, treats SARS, SARS2, all variants.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

 

[sjt18]

That was pre-Delta. Nice try to seed doubt, Clay.

Can still be said the risk of infection, symptoms, and especially hospitalization is drastically minimized.

It appears to overlap with Delta. Define drastic.

Why do you think our case numbers are sky rocketing even with over 60% of the population vaccinated? When they first started trying to get people to take the vaccine... that was a threshold mentioned. "Get to 60% and we will have the virus under control".

As for that last claim... there are probably stats available for the country or other states but I concern myself mostly with MO because that's where I live and work. Currently, 38% of all new cases are fully vaccinated. The number of hospitalizations of fully vaxed people is growing. The current CFR for fully vaccinated people in MO is .03%. For reinfected people, it is .01%. About 84,000 breakthrough cases have been recorded with 822 deaths among the fully vaccinated just over the last 8 months or so. Both are more than 8 times greater than the rate for reinfected people.

The numbers are showing what many scientists were called heretics for suggesting... natural immunity provides BETTER and longer lasting protection than the vaccines.

Health Metrics - Reinfections | COVID-19 Outbreak | Health & Senior Services (mo.gov)

 

[sjt18]

May be Covid. Omicron app has a very short lifespan. Hell CDC is saying 5 days off now.

Read an article about a one size fits all Vaccine via Walter Reed, Govt issued. High efficacy, single dose, treats SARS, SARS2, all variants.

There may come a time when an effective vaccine is discovered. However Rand Paul has argued that the focus and money should have gone to treatments. When people recover, most attain a level of immunity. Helping people survive should have been the first and primary goal. The treatments coming on line now should have been available months ago but the money has gone to vaccines... which may not be saving any lives.

 

[Jackcrevol]

There may come a time when an effective vaccine is discovered. However Rand Paul has argued that the focus and money should have gone to treatments. When people recover, most attain a level of immunity. Helping people survive should have been the first and primary goal. The treatments coming on line now should have been available months ago but the money has gone to vaccines... which may not be saving any lives.

*LOL the vaccines are available, now. And most have efficacies of 90%.
*You lost me at Rand Paul.
*98-99% of deaths are unvaxxed.

Are you nuts?