President Joe Biden - Kamala Harris Administration

#20,502
#20,502
hog88 said:
Cut off all federal funds to universities, make them dip into their endowments to pay off this debt they encouraged students to take on.
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You're showing your common sense again. If schools are worth the tuition, and the university is confident of that, the university can offer the loan to the incoming students. Automakers offer loans on their products. Universities can, too. Don't have what it takes to be approved for a university loan? Tough. University will only loan up to a certain amount for your declared major? Tough.
 
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#20,503
#20,503
Rasputin_Vol said:
Keep that same energy for the politicians and lenders that created this problem.

And expect the same level of accountability for the lenders that you do the borrowers.
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You don't seem to understand the fact that the lenders didn't sign a loan document, receive funding for that loan, and then default on payment.
 
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#20,504
#20,504
Vol423 said:
You don't seem to understand the fact that the lenders didn't sign a loan document, receive funding for that loan, and then default on payment.
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The lenders and govt ended creating a no risk situation where they could loan put as much money as they could stand and have ended up creating this situation. It is a corrupt arrangement. I understand perfectly what you are saying about signing an agreement and paying your debts... I get it. But this is a very special and very different situation. It is simply a one sided, no risk deal that the govt established and the lenders are able to benefit fit from... even to the point where the debts cannot be extinguished or renegotiated in bankruptcy. And again, holding early adults feet to the fire in a one sided arrangement such as this, yet not doing anything to punish the older generation of bankers and politicians that created this system is not ethical.
 
#20,505
#20,505
McDad said:
You're showing your common sense again. If schools are worth the tuition, and the university is confident of that, the university can offer the loan to the incoming students. Automakers offer loans on their products. Universities can, too. Don't have what it takes to be approved for a university loan? Tough. University will only loan up to a certain amount for your declared major? Tough.
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If those restrictions and limits were used and applied with student loans, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. In every other aspect of life, this is how lending works. But because the special interests and politicians have been able to demagogue the situation and overhype the importance of a 4 year university degree at the expense of 2 year degrees/vocational schools, this is where we are. The media, govt institutions and the school systems (both secondary education as students leave high school) and universities have convinced roughly 2 generations of kids to believe that stacking on a bunch of student debt is a wise decision. They've even gone as far as to say it is a necessary expense. The propaganda is just as strong as this COVID nonsense.
 
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#20,506
#20,506
AM64 said:
There's one other point though that as far as I know hasn't been addressed. That is the appearance that at least some of the medical research community has been working like intelligence agencies on black projects. Moderna, as I recall, with a little communication between researchers, had a vaccine prepped and ready to go by sometime in February of 2020. Of course, there had to be testing a trials before release. Imagine if we knew that the Moderna researchers were in touch with the "virus manufacturers" and knew what they had brewed in the lab. Is this really the start of a new medical industrial complex where they develop new diseases that they can profit from? New cures for stuff that never affected humans before? I firmly believe that Trump or anybody else in office during 2020 was simply the fall guy, and Trump overall didn't do so badly considering there seem to be a lot of withheld facts.

It was actually in Jan 2020 that Moderna had a vaccine.

Moderna's groundbreaking coronavirus vaccine was designed in just 2 days
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It was already there. I’m waiting for the next deadly virus drop.
 
#20,507
#20,507
Rasputin_Vol said:
The lenders and govt ended creating a no risk situation where they could loan put as much money as they could stand and have ended up creating this situation. It is a corrupt arrangement. I understand perfectly what you are saying about signing an agreement and paying your debts... I get it. But this is a very special and very different situation. It is simply a one sided, no risk deal that the govt established and the lenders are able to benefit fit from... even to the point where the debts cannot be extinguished or renegotiated in bankruptcy. And again, holding early adults feet to the fire in a one sided arrangement such as this, yet not doing anything to punish the older generation of bankers and politicians that created this system is not ethical.
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I don't agree at all with the elimination of the risk for the lenders. However, the underlying issue that caused that unusual law preventing the discharge of private student loan debt in bankruptcy is that the government wanted private banks to issue loans to students that otherwise wouldn't qualify for those loans. In order for the banks to do so, the government removed the default risk. Therefore, virtually every student can get loans. As is usually the case, idiot politicians are the root cause of this issue. That doesn't mean that taxpayers should be stuck footing the bill for somebody's else's default on a loan.
 
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#20,508
#20,508
Rasputin_Vol said:
If those restrictions and limits were used and applied with student loans, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. In every other aspect of life, this is how lending works. But because the special interests and politicians have been able to demagogue the situation and overhype the importance of a 4 year university degree at the expense of 2 year degrees/vocational schools, this is where we are. The media, govt institutions and the school systems (both secondary education as students leave high school) and universities have convinced roughly 2 generations of kids to believe that stacking on a bunch of student debt is a wise decision. They've even gone as far as to say it is a necessary expense. The propaganda is just as strong as this COVID nonsense.
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The government funds loans for 2 year degrees/vocational schools as well. In my opinion, there should be no elimination of the default risk on student loans. Students should be allowed to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy proceedings. However, the students should have to accept the normal ramifications that every other person faces if they file for personal bankruptcy. Banks would then only lend money to students that are highly qualified to attend a university and that have chosen a field of study that makes repayment likely. Of course, this would likely involve a MUCH, MUCH higher interest rate than current student loan debt. Potential students that can't obtain financing would be forced to explore other options. However, liberals won't like this solution because that means that not everybody will be able to attend a university. They will claim that it discriminates against the poor and disadvantaged. That is how we ended up with our current system.
 
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#20,509
#20,509
Vol423 said:
I don't agree at all with the elimination of the risk for the lenders. However, the underlying issue that caused that unusual law preventing the discharge of private student loan debt in bankruptcy is that the government wanted private banks to issue loans to students that otherwise wouldn't qualify for those loans.
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Bingo... government and special interests helped create this problem... they also need to be held accountable.

Vol423 said:
That doesn't mean that taxpayers should be stuck footing the bill for somebody's else's default on a loan.
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And you still don't get it. Taxpayers won't be paying for this. This will simply be dumped on top of the $30 trillion that we are already in debt for.

For all of this damb handwringing about students paying off their debts, you guys don't even understand that the country as a whole has a multiple size debt far larger that we will never payback. That's why all of this "live up to your obligations" nonsense you guys are spewing is ridiculous. You guys are getting bent out of shape and acting emotional over $1.5 trillion when that is a damn drop in the bucket of what we have right now and what is coming down the pike. Hell, next years budget will probably have $2 trillion deficit... and that's just one fiscal year.
 
#20,510
#20,510
Rasputin_Vol said:
What part do the lenders play in all of this?
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Government guarantee of repayment. That's why they loan for garbage degrees like 15th century French androgynous poetry that will only help you get a minimum wage job. In other words, the banks' risk is $0 so Hell yeah they will loan you $100,000 for those degrees. If they had to do some risk assessment on those loans and realized they had a 90% chance of default and subsequent bankruptcy of those loans because an androgynous poetry degree made minimum wage they won't loan money for those degrees. Government guarantees are the problem.
 
#20,511
#20,511
Rasputin_Vol said:
How much inflation over the last 25+ years since you graduated has occurred due to all of this nonsensical lending to liberal arts majors?

The sole burden of this shouldn't just rest on shoulders of the students. The lenders and govt need to get their share of the pain.
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Exactly what I am saying. They are protected via bankruptcy carve outs. Both of them. The lendee is an indentured servant and everybody gets paid.
 
#20,512
#20,512
Rasputin_Vol said:
I love how you guys have no issue holding these people fully accountable for decisions they made early in life, but let these Boomers and older Gen-Xers get away without any consequences for their lending practices.
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How do you figure that? They are GUARANTEED to get paid. Why wouldn't they make those loans?
 
#20,514
#20,514
BreatheUT said:
Anybody else notice Crazy Joe looks like the Joker when he's smirking?
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He always reminded me more of this guy:

iu
 
#20,515
#20,515
SpaceCoastVol said:
Government guarantee of repayment. That's why they loan for garbage degrees like 15th century French androgynous poetry that will only help you get a minimum wage job. In other words, the banks' risk is $0 so Hell yeah they will loan you $100,000 for those degrees. If they had to do some risk assessment on those loans and realized they had a 90% chance of default and subsequent bankruptcy of those loans because an androgynous poetry degree made minimum wage they won't loan money for those degrees. Government guarantees are the problem.
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This is all I have been saying. Government created the problem, but does not pay the penalty. Only the people with student loans.

I'm not advocating for a total elimination of their debts because they do have to feel the pain for the decision they made. I get that. However, when you get into these debts that are outrageously high going into the hundreds of thousands... no, the lenders need to take a haircut or the govt just prints more money and bails them out. Cap the loan amounts to something more reasonable and realistic that doesn't completely ruin their lives for decades (I said earlier $25k-35k but I'm just throwing out a number) and move on. If you want to be hardcore, you can agree to pay off their loans on the condition that their degrees and any associated licenses/certifications are revoked... but I doubt that would get fly.
 
#20,517
#20,517
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is all I have been saying. Government created the problem, but does not pay the penalty. Only the people with student loans.

I'm not advocating for a total elimination of their debts because they do have to feel the pain for the decision they made. I get that. However, when you get into these debts that are outrageously high going into the hundreds of thousands... no, the lenders need to take a haircut or the govt just prints more money and bails them out. Cap the loan amounts to something more reasonable and realistic that doesn't completely ruin their lives for decades (I said earlier $25k-35k but I'm just throwing out a number) and move on. If you want to be hardcore, you can agree to pay off their loans on the condition that their degrees and any associated licenses/certifications are revoked... but I doubt that would get fly.
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Here's what I would agree to. If these people go out and start a business and employ 10 or more people for 5 years, I would eliminate their debt as long as they also faithfully made their payments on those loans up to that point. But racking up $100K and pouring coffee and working on your tatt sleeve? naaaaaaah Pay your debts.
 
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#20,518
#20,518
Vol423 said:
However, liberals won't like this solution because that means that not everybody will be able to attend a university. They will claim that it discriminates against the poor and disadvantaged. That is how we ended up with our current system.
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This would kill two birds with one stone. You starve the liberal indoctrination centers of more young minds and money, and you force kids to consider vocational schools and the trades.
 
#20,519
#20,519
SpaceCoastVol said:
How do you figure that? They are GUARANTEED to get paid. Why wouldn't they make those loans?
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No, the debts that these Boomers made I was talking about is this $30 trillion... we will hold these people with student loans to their agreements but these boomers can run up all of this debt and pass it on to the next generation(s)...
 
#20,521
#20,521
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, the debts that these Boomers made I was talking about is this $30 trillion... we will hold these people with student loans to their agreements but these boomers can run up all of this debt and pass it on to the next generation(s)...
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What Boomers are you talking about? I didn't run up any debt. Like you I have been debt free for quite some time..... Debt free since 2003.
 
#20,523
#20,523
SpaceCoastVol said:
What Boomers are you talking about? I didn't run up any debt. Like you I have been debt free for quite some time..... Debt free since 2003.
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Boomers in the political class and business that are running this country right now. Don't get worked up... I am not talking about you individually.

These older people made these decisions and created the conditions for this student loan debacle and are quick to say "live up to your obligations"/"pay your debts", while simultaneously running up trillions of dollars and passing it on for future generations to pay off...
 
#20,524
#20,524
SpaceCoastVol said:
How is it poor on the part of the lender?
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In an ordinary arrangement, they likely would not have been issuing so many of these loans. The government put them in the position of having to take these loans, but I don't see them campaigning to stop this madness... so obviously they have no problem benefiting in this corrupt arrangement.
 
#20,525
#20,525
One could always do a Stacey, get into politics, and baddabing baddaboom, debts vanish

I was fortunate that my tuition was paid by my parents, but at the time it was maybe $2-3K per year. including books. I did work 20-30 hours per week though including full day Saturday every other week at Sears Service Center for spending money and vehicle expenses. Ironically enough, those were good paying repair jobs for the techs fixing all manner of appliances, vacuums, electronics, mowers, etc. And my Uncle was a CPO in the USN and upon his discharge worked at another location.

I could not imagine having student loans of such magnitude especially in this day and age looking at data of what one expects to earn in their profession. Consider it adult life's first lesson.

To seriously approach the situation, lets look at why the costs are so high.Is a professor that teaches a major deserve such a high income that exceeds what the vast majority of the graduates will earn? Are these fancy buildings necessary even? And I say that after my comment years ago upon seeing the new tens of million dollar library that I visited and after going thru several floors, the books were in the basement in rollers. Everything else was just study spaces and computers.
 
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