President Joe Biden - Kamala Harris Administration

#20,452
#20,452
BreatheUT said:
It doesn't have to be the only answer but allowing people to make a lump sum from the 401K could resolve this for many including me.
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Or just bail them out and pile it on to the debt that we already have and won't pay off. It won't cost you anything. They're going to print more money beyond this measly $1.5 trillion to cover it.
 
#20,453
#20,453
Rasputin_Vol said:
Or just bail them out and pile it on to the debt that we already have and won't pay off. It won't cost you anything. They're going to print more money beyond this measly $1.5 trillion to cover it.
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If they want to be stupid enough to do it ok but it's bad policy.
 
#20,457
#20,457
BreatheUT said:
If they want to be stupid enough to do it ok but it's bad policy.
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It was bad policy to have the govt involved to the point where we are now. Seems like we want to let the govt and lenders off the hook for their mistake but leave the borrowers fully accountable and holding the bag.
 
#20,459
#20,459
allvol123 said:
Penalized for offering what customers foolishly asked for?
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Lenders reject borrowers all the time. Why wasn't this done when these people were financing basketweaving degrees? It was a poor business decision, yet the borrower is fully on the hook for not just principle but interest. Not to mention the fact that all of this govt money flooding the system helped to drive up inflation in tuition over the last 2-3 decades... making the matter worse.

But let's just hold these 18-21 year old feet to the fire and make them suffer for a lifetime while the govt and lenders are able to keep rolling...
 
#20,460
#20,460
allvol123 said:
Have you seen me condone that debt?
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Nope. But you seem to have a particular issue with student loan debt forgiveness but seem to be smart enough to know that this $30 trillion and counting we have right now is not going to be paid off... it will either be inflated away or as you seem to be saying "You signed it, you pay it", which will handcuff future generations.

It is a glaring double standard and I think it is based on emotions by some people that see it as unfair that they had to pay off their student loans, but these other folk potentially may get some debt relief. I get it. I understand completely that feeling. It's the same feeling I get every April 15th. This country has unfairness and wealth transfer going on all over the place... but this measly $1.5 trillion is the hill that many of you choose to die on.

It would be a far different conversation if we were talking about consumer debt or car loans or a mortgage. Those can go to bankruptcy or whatever and the lenders share in the pain with possible haircuts. But this is a totally different animal.
 
#20,461
#20,461
Rasputin_Vol said:
Nope. But you seem to have a particular issue with student loan debt forgiveness but seem to be smart enough to know that this $30 trillion and counting we have right now is not going to be paid off... it will either be inflated away or as you seem to be saying "You signed it, you pay it", which will handcuff future generations.

It is a glaring double standard and I think it is based on emotions by some people that see it as unfair that they had to pay off their student loans, but these other folk potentially may get some debt relief. I get it. I understand completely that feeling. It's the same feeling I get every April 15th. This country has unfairness and wealth transfer going on all over the place... but this measly $1.5 trillion is the hill that many of you choose to die on.

It would be a far different conversation if we were talking about consumer debt or car loans or a mortgage. Those can go to bankruptcy or whatever and the lenders share in the pain with possible haircuts. But this is a totally different animal.
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You claim I have a double standard yet can’t point to it.
 
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#20,462
#20,462
Rasputin_Vol said:
Lenders reject borrowers all the time. Why wasn't this done when these people were financing basketweaving degrees? It was a poor business decision, yet the borrower is fully on the hook for not just principle but interest. Not to mention the fact that all of this govt money flooding the system helped to drive up inflation in tuition over the last 2-3 decades... making the matter worse.

But let's just hold these 18-21 year old feet to the fire and make them suffer for a lifetime while the govt and lenders are able to keep rolling...
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You keep mentioning 18-21 year olds. Is this a hang up for you. They are kids to you?

Also, someone likely co-signed for them.
 
#20,463
#20,463
Rasputin_Vol said:
You won't be paying for it. They are just going to either default (highly unlikely) or print more money and hyperinflate the currency (most likely). And it's interesting that the little $1-1.5 trillion in student loan debt or whatever it is right now seems to irritate people, but they don't bristle too much about all of the debt the DoD has run up in the last two decades in the Middle East. Most people didn't sign up for that debt, either.

I say again, these banks and the politicians are going to hold these people's feet to the fire and make them accountable for decisions they made when they were 18-21 years old, yet the people in Washington DC in their 40s and older that waste multiple times more money are allowed to walk the streets with no worries.

This country isn't going broke and sitting at close to $30 trillion in on book debt because of student loans. GTFOH...
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Do you think us paying for their bad decisions will help the economy?
 
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#20,464
#20,464
allvol123 said:
You claim I have a double standard yet can’t point to it.
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I'm speaking in general, not necessarily you as a person. Although, the amount of anger this topic generates is far more strident than any conversation about how we are going to treat the $30 trillion debt. Hell, you may even be hard pressed to find many conversations about how we should handle that debt.
 
#20,465
#20,465
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm speaking in general, not necessarily you as a person. Although, the amount of anger this topic generates is far more strident than any conversation about how we are going to treat the $30 trillion debt. Hell, you may even be hard pressed to find many conversations about how we should handle that debt.
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I believe people should pay their debts. Everyone.
 
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#20,466
#20,466
allvol123 said:
You keep mentioning 18-21 year olds. Is this a hang up for you. They are kids to you?

Also, someone likely co-signed for them.
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It plays a factor because these are early adults. Sure. I understand that in the legal sense that still makes them adults. But I find it a bit odd that we hold these people to decisions they made early in life, yet let these older guys that created these conditions off. Again, both hold some responsibility in this disaster, yet only the students are the ones being asked to be accountable.
 
#20,468
#20,468
Rasputin_Vol said:
It plays a factor because these are early adults. Sure. I understand that in the legal sense that still makes them adults. But I find it a bit odd that we hold these people to decisions they made early in life, yet let these older guys that created these conditions off. Again, both hold some responsibility in this disaster, yet only the students are the ones being asked to be accountable.
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Who created it? You can’t force a loan on someone.

Information is as accessible as ever. Which is how you get educated. Thus it is cheaper than ever. That being the case, why is junior taking a loan for 90k and why is papaw co-signing it?
 
#20,470
#20,470
allvol123 said:
Have you seen me condone that debt?
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I don’t know how it is now or was at other schools but in the 90s when I was at Ohio State they basically stuck you in a line and told you how much you qualified for and then handed you a big pile of cash to go live on after your books and classes were paid. You are somewhere between 18 and early 20s and your decision making skills are not the best yet.

Once you got that first check at 18 you wanted the next so every quarter (we were still in quarters then) you would take that money again.

I believe the loans should be repaid but I also believe all student loans should be zero interest.
 
#20,471
#20,471
Sandman 423 said:
Do you think us paying for their bad decisions will help the economy?
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Well first off, I've clearly said that they need to hold some accountability for their debt.

But secondly, we have people all over the place that make bad decisions and get bailed out. It pizzas me off just as much as you... believe me (or not).

Again, two groups of people created this problem and should be held accountable: the borrowers and the lenders. I don't think I can make it more simpler than that. Both groups need to share in the pain in solving this problem.

I get it... you paid off your loans or maybe didn't have any and you think its unfair that they get debt relief. I get it. You are in your feelings about that. But the amount of money we are talking about in the grand scheme of things pales in comparison to the money thrown away everyday in other ways. But because a lot of you have an emotional tie to this issue, you get triggered.
 
#20,473
#20,473
allvol123 said:
Who created it? You can’t force a loan on someone.

Information is as accessible as ever. Which is how you get educated. Thus it is cheaper than ever. That being the case, why is junior taking a loan for 90k and why is papaw co-signing it?
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Financial illiteracy is already low. But when you have the govt, media and these universities encouraging young people to pile on this debt for worthless degrees, it becomes a special situation in my mind. I'm seeing this from a different lens than most of you all do, also. I wasn't surrounded by a bunch of people that provided good financial advice or wisdom. And there were plenty of others that would have seen no issue with me piling on thousands of dollars in debt had the situation come.

A lot of you take it for granted that most young people are provided these important life lessons. But at the same time, I can't understand you same people not having this same level of blood thirst for the adults in government and lenders that helped to create this system.

None of you have even bothered to comment on what we need to do with the govt and lenders. You all have all focused on the borrowers...
 
#20,474
#20,474
hog88 said:
Cut off all federal funds to universities, make them dip into their endowments to pay off this debt they encouraged students to take on.
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And that is another option because these universities hold some share of the blame as well.

Let's blame the young people and hold their feet to the fire with debt they can't shake off, but these boomer university administrators, politicians and lenders can issue as many loans as they want without fear of defaults... which violates conventional economic theory. Where else can lenders in any other situation not have to be concerned about the credit worthiness of the borrower? Exactly... no other time.
 
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