Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

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Excellent breakdown of Captain DMT's interview with Dr No Longer With Baylor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/rfm4yk/comment/hof9ya3/

There's a lot I could say about this podcast. I'd just recommend people do some digging into rates of myocarditis in the vaccine vs with Covid, every age group is more likely to get it from the virus itself than the vaccine, yet he avoids even mentioning how common myocarditis is with Covid (Edit: apparently I missed where they circle back to it later in the podcast and he does address it. His explanation appears to be total speculation based on anecdotes not supported by the data, there’s more discussion of it in the responses to this comment). Following viral infection it's frequently thought to stem from a dysregulated immune response, meaning those who got it from the vaccine also likely would have gotten it from the virus, they were susceptible to it. One theory is that young people have more active immune systems that may be more likely to over-react, and that's why it's more common for them than older people. It sucks that it happens at all, but when there's no easy solution harm reduction is often the best path... meaning vaccination if myocarditis is your worry. I personally wouldn't exercise strenuously after Covid or vaccination.

Every hospital I know of tests you for Covid upon admission, they're not only testing the unvaccinated... that's one of the more absurd claims he makes. Some hospitals may have that policy, but they wouldn't admit someone as a Covid patient (to then be counted in the statistic he references) without a positive test. Universally the numbers show the unvaccinated are at exponentially greater risk of hospitalization. His interpretation of VAERS data is not consistent with how many other physicians describe it, but that's not my wheelhouse so I'm not sure. Here's some context though" You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

The "balloon" or "beachball" (I forget what he calls it) of Covid's anatomical structure is not harmless, it's the live virus that is capable of actually infecting cells... unlike the spike proteins which are merely an attachment site that do pose their own issues, but they're two completely different things. This beach ball is the reason we see things like pneumonia, organ tissue scarring, and respiratory failure (to name a feW) following infection but not vaccination.

He says doctors aren't trying to "treat" covid. That's not true at all, towards the beginning of the pandemic doctors were throwing everything at it. Hospitals in my area were filling up and weren't accepting people unless they met a strict criteria, the rest were being sent home with a handful of different prescriptions. Steroids, anti-inflammatories, prophylactic antibiotics if someone was at risk of pneumonia, some smaller practice docs were trying various antivirals and even things that barely made sense like teraflu. Hospitals were administering the magical hydroxychloriquine and zinc combo. As more data came to light it showed that most of these treatments were not helping and may actually be harmful, and more data was needed. Plenty of treatment is still prescribed to outpatients with Covid.

He says schools like Harvard and Yale don't have Covid protocols... they do. Here's Yale's: https://medicine.yale.edu/intmed/COVID-19 TREATMENT ADULT Algorithm 8.16.2021 v.24_401118_5_v7.pdf.

Edit: To everyone commenting that he was talking about non-hospitalized patients only, here's a link that also includes Yale's outpatient recommendations, including one from March 2020 that includes outpatient hydroxychloriquine amongst other things Yale New Haven Health | Clinical Resources . Scroll down to Outpatient Clinical Resources . This guy is apparently just making things up as he goes.

MGH is Harvard's teaching hospital, their most up to date one is only accessible on their intranet though I'm sure older versions can be found elsewhere COVID-19 Management: Critical Care. They also have internal databases focused on treatment guidelines for outpatients to prevent hospitalization COVID-19 Treatment Guidance. Mayo Clinic who he also mentions has been doing outpatient monoclonal antibodies since last November, and has a huge database for their physicians on current Covid treatment research. MayoClinic was running trials treating outpatients with convalescent plasma and other therapeutics as early as April 2020.

He essentially just made up his own way of interpreting what a second infection is to pretend that no one catches Covid twice. Many states have published reinfection data, the first google hit shows 94 reinfection deaths in North Carolina alone. These patients are just dying from Covid complications months or a year after having Covid, they're testing positive for Covid while they die of Covid symptoms, but they don't have Covid because Dr McCullough says they don't?

He claims he'd be breaking the nuremburg code by recommending the "experimental", FDA approved vaccine, but then he boasts about how frequently he prescribes experimental, emergency use authorization only lab made antibody infusions?

I don't think he's a grifter, I think he's caught up in something that is shifting his objectivity, for whatever reason. Lots of intelligent people get carried away with wacky theories and ideas.

Edit- I'll add a couple citations on myocarditis risk

Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis - PubMed

Safety of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine in a Nationwide Setting | NEJM

COVID-19 Re-Infection by a Phylogenetically Distinct SARS-CoV-2 Variant, First Confirmed Event in South America. by Belen Prado-Vivar, Monica Becerra-Wong, Juan Jose Guadalupe, Sully Marquez, Bernardo Gutierrez, Patricio Rojas-Silva, Michelle Grunauer, Gabriel Trueba, Veronica Barragan, Paul Cardenas :: SSRN - first lab confirmed re-infection 1 year ago
 
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#110,753
AshG said:
Excellent breakdown of Captain DMT's interview with Dr No Longer With Baylor:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/rfm4yk/comment/hof9ya3/

There's a lot I could say about this podcast. I'd just recommend people do some digging into rates of myocarditis in the vaccine vs with Covid, every age group is more likely to get it from the virus itself than the vaccine, yet he avoids even mentioning how common myocarditis is with Covid (Edit: apparently I missed where they circle back to it later in the podcast and he does address it. His explanation appears to be total speculation based on anecdotes not supported by the data, there’s more discussion of it in the responses to this comment). Following viral infection it's frequently thought to stem from a dysregulated immune response, meaning those who got it from the vaccine also likely would have gotten it from the virus, they were susceptible to it. One theory is that young people have more active immune systems that may be more likely to over-react, and that's why it's more common for them than older people. It sucks that it happens at all, but when there's no easy solution harm reduction is often the best path... meaning vaccination if myocarditis is your worry. I personally wouldn't exercise strenuously after Covid or vaccination.

Every hospital I know of tests you for Covid upon admission, they're not only testing the unvaccinated... that's one of the more absurd claims he makes. Some hospitals may have that policy, but they wouldn't admit someone as a Covid patient (to then be counted in the statistic he references) without a positive test. Universally the numbers show the unvaccinated are at exponentially greater risk of hospitalization. His interpretation of VAERS data is not consistent with how many other physicians describe it, but that's not my wheelhouse so I'm not sure. Here's some context though" You asked, we answered: Does VAERS list deaths caused by COVID-19 vaccines?

The "balloon" or "beachball" (I forget what he calls it) of Covid's anatomical structure is not harmless, it's the live virus that is capable of actually infecting cells... unlike the spike proteins which are merely an attachment site that do pose their own issues, but they're two completely different things. This beach ball is the reason we see things like pneumonia, organ tissue scarring, and respiratory failure (to name a feW) following infection but not vaccination.

He says doctors aren't trying to "treat" covid. That's not true at all, towards the beginning of the pandemic doctors were throwing everything at it. Hospitals in my area were filling up and weren't accepting people unless they met a strict criteria, the rest were being sent home with a handful of different prescriptions. Steroids, anti-inflammatories, prophylactic antibiotics if someone was at risk of pneumonia, some smaller practice docs were trying various antivirals and even things that barely made sense like teraflu. Hospitals were administering the magical hydroxychloriquine and zinc combo. As more data came to light it showed that most of these treatments were not helping and may actually be harmful, and more data was needed. Plenty of treatment is still prescribed to outpatients with Covid.

He says schools like Harvard and Yale don't have Covid protocols... they do. Here's Yale's: https://medicine.yale.edu/intmed/COVID-19 TREATMENT ADULT Algorithm 8.16.2021 v.24_401118_5_v7.pdf.

Edit: To everyone commenting that he was talking about non-hospitalized patients only, here's a link that also includes Yale's outpatient recommendations, including one from March 2020 that includes outpatient hydroxychloriquine amongst other things Yale New Haven Health | Clinical Resources . Scroll down to Outpatient Clinical Resources . This guy is apparently just making things up as he goes.

MGH is Harvard's teaching hospital, their most up to date one is only accessible on their intranet though I'm sure older versions can be found elsewhere COVID-19 Management: Critical Care. They also have internal databases focused on treatment guidelines for outpatients to prevent hospitalization COVID-19 Treatment Guidance. Mayo Clinic who he also mentions has been doing outpatient monoclonal antibodies since last November, and has a huge database for their physicians on current Covid treatment research. MayoClinic was running trials treating outpatients with convalescent plasma and other therapeutics as early as April 2020.

He essentially just made up his own way of interpreting what a second infection is to pretend that no one catches Covid twice. Many states have published reinfection data, the first google hit shows 94 reinfection deaths in North Carolina alone. These patients are just dying from Covid complications months or a year after having Covid, they're testing positive for Covid while they die of Covid symptoms, but they don't have Covid because Dr McCullough says they don't?

He claims he'd be breaking the nuremburg code by recommending the "experimental", FDA approved vaccine, but then he boasts about how frequently he prescribes experimental, emergency use authorization only lab made antibody infusions?

I don't think he's a grifter, I think he's caught up in something that is shifting his objectivity, for whatever reason. Lots of intelligent people get carried away with wacky theories and ideas.

Edit- I'll add a couple citations on myocarditis risk

Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis - PubMed

Safety of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine in a Nationwide Setting | NEJM

COVID-19 Re-Infection by a Phylogenetically Distinct SARS-CoV-2 Variant, First Confirmed Event in South America. by Belen Prado-Vivar, Monica Becerra-Wong, Juan Jose Guadalupe, Sully Marquez, Bernardo Gutierrez, Patricio Rojas-Silva, Michelle Grunauer, Gabriel Trueba, Veronica Barragan, Paul Cardenas :: SSRN - first lab confirmed re-infection 1 year ago
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Did you listen to the podcast, or have you ever listened to him before?
 
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utvolpj said:
Because it's been shown the dosage required to be beneficial is too high. Hcq is also not effective in the lungs but people still count to that one as well

I'm all for people trying what they want under the supervision of a Dr but the cries of "but big pharma!" are quite overblown
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Overblown? 55 years to get testing info? That doesn't raise any red flags or build the case for people being cynical of big Pharma?
 
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AshG said:
I was expecting that to pop in here at some point. It's an interesting study.

I've pivoted over the past several months to accept that natural immunity is better than vaccinated if you're at low risk of complications. This study reinforces that.
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I think it would go a long way in re-gaining the public trust if the people that say “follow the science” actually started doing that in regard to natural immunity.
 
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AshG said:
Why was Disney granted a copyright rollover that provides them with automatic renewal in perpetua when other entities, including billion dollar companies, have been refused that luxury?
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They successfully lobbied Congress to pass the Copyright Term Extension Act. It benefitted any copyright holder though most copyrights have little commercial value at the end of their term of protection. Not sure what is a conspiracy about this.
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
Overblown? 55 years to get testing info? That doesn't raise any red flags or build the case for people being cynical of big Pharma?
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Being cynical is fine but there is data on this particular use case. Believing they're hiding the magical ivermectin cure doesn't really make sense
 
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utvolpj said:
Being cynical is fine but there is data on this particular use case. Believing they're hiding the magical ivermectin cure doesn't really make sense
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Nobody said it's a "magical" cure. But it fairly raises flags when 1) FDA is interfering in USPS business to halt personal shipments of the product in; 2) there is unprecedented overreach by pharmacists to interfere with the doctor-patient relationship, and 3) the government propaganda machine (which has been caught in lies already with regards to this mess) is fired up against it.
 
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ButchPlz said:
Nobody said it's a "magical" cure. But it fairly raises flags when 1) FDA is interfering in USPS business to halt personal shipments of the product in; 2) there is unprecedented overreach by pharmacists to interfere with the doctor-patient relationship, and 3) the government propaganda machine (which has been caught in lies already with regards to this mess) is fired up against it.
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Drs, researchers and scientists are speaking up as well. How many of them are you calling a propaganda machine? They have actual studies

Also, lots are claiming it's a magical cure. A whole lot
 
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vols4sure said:
They successfully lobbied Congress to pass the Copyright Term Extension Act. It benefitted any copyright holder though most copyrights have little commercial value at the end of their term of protection. Not sure what is a conspiracy about this.
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:cool:
 
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kiddiedoc said:
Did you listen to the podcast, or have you ever listened to him before?
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I have listened to Joe before; he's not generally my cup of tea, but I am not going to attempt to convince anyone else not to listen to him.

I've listened to a few chunks of this specific broadcast and may go back and listen from the beginning and in toto. Something about McCullough is not sitting well with me and not because I don't agree with him on all of his stances. Something is just... Off.
 
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AshG said:
I have listened to Joe before; he's not generally my cup of tea, but I am not going to attempt to convince anyone else not to listen to him.

I've listened to a few chunks of this specific broadcast and may go back and listen from the beginning and in toto. Something about McCullough is not sitting well with me and not because I don't agree with him on all of his stances. Something is just... Off.
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So you didn't listen to it but read some dudes take on it from Reddit?
 
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utvolpj said:
Drs, researchers and scientists are speaking up as well. How many of them are you calling a propaganda machine? They have actual studies

Also, lots are claiming it's a magical cure. A whole lot
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You can literally turn this same argument around for the treatment you're peddling a CoNsPiRaCy ThEoRy about, wailing about people calling it a "magical cure".

There are actual studies (from India, Bangladesh, South America, Japan) showing the effectiveness of IVM treating COVID, and several further back showing its potential as an antiviral.

There are doctors prescribing it as a treatment regimen to largely great results.

Meanwhile it gets labeled unsafe for humans and is called "horse paste" to discourage its use here in the United States.

It shocks me that people like you with their head up their hiney (or maybe the hiney of some nebulous industry with a record of abusing people for gain and is saying you need X number of infinite mystery boosters) get to go vote. A failure of "democracy". Use your brain.
 
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ButchPlz said:
You can literally turn this same argument around for the treatment you're peddling a CoNsPiRaCy ThEoRy about, wailing about people calling it a "magical cure".

There are actual studies (from India, Bangladesh, South America, Japan) showing the effectiveness of IVM treating COVID, and several further back showing its potential as an antiviral.

There are doctors prescribing it as a treatment regimen to largely great results.

Meanwhile it gets labeled unsafe for humans and is called "horse paste" to discourage its use here in the United States.

It shocks me that people like you with their head up their hiney (or maybe the hiney of some nebulous industry with a record of abusing people for gain and is saying you need X number of infinite mystery boosters) get to go vote. A failure of "democracy". Use your brain.
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Which treatment am I peddling?

Your post is a perfect example of why there pushback. You dismiss and insult anyone who dares question something you've convinced yourself is a cure. You're cherry picking data yet tell me to use my brain.

"If you don't believe in ivermectin you are a big pharma shill" is a completely ridiculous conclusion
 
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utvols88 said:
Are you satisfied with that?
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I am in the process of listening to the episode in its entirety right now, and will continue to look up more information as needed.

There's some quality information, but there's some head scratching as well. Part of why I went looking in the first place was the clip I watched said there were no pre hospitalization protocols, which I knew from my time as a Cleveland Clinic patient was not true.

What has happened in the course of reading and listening today is that both the information provided by McCullough and the information provided by those who disagree with him both have pushed me to move from a general disdain for Fauci to flat-out wanting to shoot him into the sun.
 
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AshG said:
I am in the process of listening to the episode in its entirety right now, and will continue to look up more information as needed.

There's some quality information, but there's some head scratching as well. Part of why I went looking in the first place was the clip I watched said there were no pre hospitalization protocols, which I knew from my time as a Cleveland Clinic patient was not true.

What has happened in the course of reading and listening today is that both the information provided by McCullough and the information provided by those who disagree with him both have pushed me to move from a general disdain for Fauci to flat-out wanting to shoot him into the sun.
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For fun, try explaining how in the hell none of our local hospitals have monoclonal antibody, at the present.
 
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utvolpj said:
Which treatment am I peddling?

Your post is a perfect example of why there pushback. You dismiss and insult anyone who dares question something you've convinced yourself is a cure. You're cherry picking data yet tell me to use my brain.

"If you don't believe in ivermectin you are a big pharma shill" is a completely ridiculous conclusion
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Did I say you were peddling a treatment? I said you were peddling a theory about a treatment- which you are. Can you read?

Here you are implying that people that question the financial incentives for certain treatments being forced on people are out of touch. Here you are making a broadly false equivalence to people asking those questions are unanimously claiming there's some "miracle cure" that "big pharma" is hiding. Here you are complaining about anyone "cherry picking data" yet using some galaxy-brained appeal to authority to tell me "but doctors and scientists say...", referring (undoubtedly) to the data and studies provided by people that openly cite their conflicts of interest.

Do you even read what you respond to our post? You throw around accusations, don't even read what you're responding to, then do what you accuse people of.

So again, my point of too many people being able to vote stands.
 
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Heh, Joe is getting frustrated with McCullough. McCullough has Fauci syndrome - he's the smartest person in the room in his own mind.
 
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ButchPlz said:
Did I say you were peddling a treatment? I said you were peddling a theory about a treatment- which you are. Can you read?

Here you are implying that people that question the financial incentives for certain treatments being forced on people are out of touch. Here you are making a broadly false equivalence to people asking those questions are unanimously claiming there's some "miracle cure" that "big pharma" is hiding. Here you are complaining about anyone "cherry picking data" yet using some galaxy-brained appeal to authority to tell me "but doctors and scientists say...", referring (undoubtedly) to the data and studies provided by people that openly cite their conflicts of interest.

Do you even read what you respond to our post? You throw around accusations, don't even read what you're responding to, then do what you accuse people of.

So again, my point of too many people being able to vote stands.
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What a rambling mess. You quote anecdotal evidence (at best) then accuse me of an appeal to authority. You go on a tangent about money when I'm simply talking about the effectiveness that has been reviewed. The accusation that big pharma is hiding the cure had absolutely been posted on this board and elsewhere. I've never made the claim it was made by all but you need that for your claim to make sense

Good luck with your horse dewormer. That the response you're digging for?
 
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utvolpj said:
What a rambling mess. You quote anecdotal evidence (at best) then accuse me of an appeal to authority. You go on a tangent about money when I'm simply talking about the effectiveness that has been reviewed. The accusation that big pharma is hiding the cure had absolutely been posted on this board and elsewhere. I've never made the claim it was made by all but you need that for your claim to make sense

Good luck with your horse dewormer. That the response you're digging for?
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What anecdotal evidence did I cite? I noted where I've seen studies from indicating possible effectiveness of a treatment- much more than flippantly throwing out "Drs, researchers, and scientists"...as some appeal to a cloudy authority. If you're looking for the studies, just ask- some I think I can find on a whim, though many are already shared here. Until then, do you even know what the word "anecdotal" means?

Again, you stepped up to crap on people that question the treatments being offered and the treatments that are being suppressed. You accuse me, now, of thinking that ivermectin is some "magical cure" which is not what I've said at all. You are constructing some kind of strawman argument, bringing actual anecdotal evidence of nebulous undefined "Drs, researchers, and scientists" as some kind of authority for your argument. You jacked up your own reading comprehension and claimed I was saying you were peddling a treatment.

You can tell me I'm posting a rambling mess if you like. At least I'm not pooping my own pants in frustration because I want to come in and hate on people.
 
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