I respect Fulmer a little more after each game we lose

#77
#77
JMSqb11 said:
Yet he won the division twice and had 3 ten win seasons that time span you are equating him to Butch. Butch literally doesn’t even come close to touching anything Fulmer related.
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Butch someone managed to lose the East in 2016. Dobbs, Kamara, Barnett, reeves maybin, Sutton, I could go on. That alone is what blows my mind
 
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#79
#79
RockyTop140 said:
Butch someone managed to lose the East in 2016. Dobbs, Kamara, Barnett, reeves maybin, Sutton, I could go on. That alone is what blows my mind
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Butch should have been in Atlanta in 2015 and 2016. Mind blowing losses to Florida, Arkansas, Vandy, and South Carolina were inexcusable.
 
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#80
#80
Arrested Devolopment said:
Fulmer was a great recruiter, to be sure, and that talent led him to having some of the best teams ever fielded by the Vols. However, the game passed him by when Saban entered the picture. Fulmer, imo, was a "line em up and let em play" coach, figuring all the coaching happens from Sunday - Friday, and on Saturday hard-hitting and talent would win the game.

That used to work fine (except against Spurrier) until Saban, a tactician who adjusts to exploit weaknesses in teams with superior talent. Saban knew Fulmer's tendencies, and beat him in 4 out of 5 games using lesser talent and superior coaching. In one game at Neyland (2008?) Saban ordered an onside kick for the opening kickoff and recovered. Fulmer was completely out of his depth at that point.

I see a lot of similarities between Heupel and Saban in terms of their approach, e.g. Heupel's use of a high speed spread offense to make mismatched games competitive. Did you see Saban's face in the 3rd quarter against the Vols this year? Expect that to get worse as Heupel gains better recruits.

It's too early to call, but there's a possibility Heupel will do to Saban what Saban did to Fulmer: force him to retire.
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The onside kick to start the game was in 2007 in Tuscaloosa when Saban's first team, who went 6-6, drilled us 41-17. We also got blown out by Cal and Florida that year. We did win the SEC East though
 
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#83
#83
The defensive tackles and linebackers coupled with the qbs and running backs simply amazing he recruited.
 
#84
#84
whobethis16 said:
Would you rather have an SECCG appearance every 3 years, or be looking at 20 years without one? That's the state of the program.
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I know the state of the program, but like I mentioned, him being here for 10+ years we shouldn’t have expected any less. Especially after winning two and a NC.
 
#85
#85
Orange931 said:
I know the state of the program, but like I mentioned, him being here for 10+ years we shouldn’t have expected any less. Especially after winning two and a NC.
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Those "expectations" are directly correlated to where we are today. And you didn't answer the question.
 
#86
#86
JMSqb11 said:
I get the hate of Fulmer..... But there was nothing he had a hand in that resulted in Hart being the AD, Dooley and Butch being hired, and Currie trying to backdoor in Schiano....... There is a 7 year window and almost 2 full recruiting classes that graduated that had nothing to do with Fulmer.....

People can't hate Phil all they want for the Pruitt hire, but Phil never enters the equation if it wasn't for Hamiilton, Hart, and Currie making boneheaded decisions in a 7-8 year window..... This is not debatable
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Fulmer made it a point to interject himself into the equation this last go around and parlay what was supposed to be a temporary assignment as a special assistant to Davenport into a full time AD job.

A job he is now being paid not to do through his own incompetence.

I see the point of him having nothing to do with that 7 year window youre referring to, however, if Fulmer doesn't let his complacency and arrogance get in the way then it's very possible that 7 year window never happens.

Win 8 games a year and his contract would have automatically rolled over with his last deal as coach.

Would've, Should've, Could've though.

Right now we have a program still under NCAA investigation that still can't stay within 20 points of Bama, GA, or FL.

That is 100 percent on Fulmer and Pruitt along with a completely inept and dysfunctional power base in Knoxville.
 
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#87
#87
Brave Volunteer said:
What was so weird about Fulmer's recruiting in the 00's was it was so wildly inconsistent. He'd have a top 5 class one year and the next year it wouldnt be in the top 25. He struggled to maintain recruiting momentum from one year to the next for some reason. He also had an abnormally high number of 4 and 5 star recruits that never panned out. When Kiffin took over in 2009, he was forced to start two 265 lb walk ons on the offensive line. That was an indictment on Fulmer's poor recruiting/development.
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Seems like I remember a couple of years where we had multiple signing day defections. Don't remember many details but one year it was a couple of guys to LSU.....
 
#88
#88
JonGrudensAgent said:
Fulmer made it a point to interject himself into the equation this last go around and parlay what was supposed to be a temporary assignment as a special assistant to Davenport into a full time AD job.

A job he is now being paid not to do through his own incompetence.

I see the point of him having nothing to do with that 7 year window youre referring to, however, if Fulmer doesn't let his complacency and arrogance get in the way then it's very possible that 7 year window never happens.

Win 8 games a year and his contract would have automatically rolled over with his last deal as coach.

Would've, Should've, Could've though.

Right now we have a program still under NCAA investigation that still can't stay within 20 points of Bama, GA, or FL.

That is 100 percent on Fulmer and Pruitt along with a completely inept and dysfunctional power base in Knoxville.
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Fulmer did make a way to get involved. However, is anyone really gonna say that he shouldn’t have when our AD went AWOL on a donor’s plane from his last job (Kansas State) and wasn’t communicating with his bosses?

Now Fulmer did get involved when Hart retired or left and it was rumored Currie was the leading candidate. And Fulmer had pretty much all the support once Currie was finally found out West.

You are right that we can play the coulda shoulda woulda game….. but the same people decrying Fulmer now were the same loud bunch who were cheering his appointment once Currie went AWOL and finally got canned. Yes Fulmer made the worst hire out of the 4 coaches that followed him. But it wasn’t the worst AD decision since his time as coach. That title goes to January 2010.

And you are always great to converse with here. Really enjoy the debates! May not always agree but it’s fun!
 
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#89
#89
JMSqb11 said:
Pruitt was definitely the worst hire since Kiffin.

I think the worst decision since Kiffin was in 2010 and it was two pronged.

1- Hamilton not letting Kippy Brown or someone be the interim for one year and basically have a 12 month coaching search

2- Once Hamilton was dead set on going with a rushed search that resulted in Dooley, he should have NEVER balked at Cutcliffe’s request to hire his own assistants and not be forced to absorb the Kiffin leftover coaches.


Cutcliffe would have walked into Tyler Bray and a somewhat promising offensive core.

The worst coach we hired was far and away Pruitt. But the worst decision of UT’s athletic department was in January 2010
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Here was another egregious error by Hamilton IMO


Gary Patterson: "Tennessee didn't think I could handle the big stage."
 
#91
#91
JMSqb11 said:
Fulmer did make a way to get involved. However, is anyone really gonna say that he shouldn’t have when our AD went AWOL on a donor’s plane from his last job (Kansas State) and wasn’t communicating with his bosses?

Now Fulmer did get involved when Hart retired or left and it was rumored Currie was the leading candidate. And Fulmer had pretty much all the support once Currie was finally found out West.

You are right that we can play the coulda shoulda woulda game….. but the same people decrying Fulmer now were the same loud bunch who were cheering his appointment once Currie went AWOL and finally got canned. Yes Fulmer made the worst hire out of the 4 coaches that followed him. But it wasn’t the worst AD decision since his time as coach. That title goes to January 2010.

And you are always great to converse with here. Really enjoy the debates! May not always agree but it’s fun!
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Feeling is mutual.

Nice to be able to agree to disagree without everything turning into a temper tantrum or name calling contest like we see in society in general and on here nowadays.
 
#92
#92
JMSqb11 said:
Yep. I don’t think Kiffin was a bad hire. But the way Hamilton went about letting Patterson know he wasn’t gonna be offered was stupid dumb. Hamilton was too much of a suit than an AD.
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Hamilton and Currie were both pencil pushers and fund raisers more than actual athletic directors IMO

Goes back to my earlier comment about the power base in Knoxville being dysfunctional.

I think/hope White can rise above it and he has shown he can make something out of an untenable situation with hiring Heupel.
 
#94
#94
OrangeEtBlanc said:
I do wonder how different our situation would be if we had given Fulmer one more season. Then we don’t have the Kiffin & Dooley debacle, and our program was probably more stable & successful through the 2010s, whether with Fulmer or a better hypothetical hire than what we made.

The Triple Entente of firing Fulmer, Kiffin leaving, and hiring Dooley screwed the program for more than a decade.
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I think the biggest what if was instead of Dooley if we let Kippy Brown keep the interim. Hamilton panicked. If Kippy Brown won favor that year he keeps it. If not you have a whole year to look for the right candidate instead of freaking out and just grabbing someone that would come that close to signing day. Most coaches had no interest of accepting a job that close to signing day. Kippy Brown deserved that opportunity.
 
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#97
#97
Fulmer is a VFL and we all have fond memories of the 90’s. With that said, he was a very average game day coach, really below average to be honest. I remember games we should have won the we lost due too poor coaching decisions and playing not to lose vs playing to win. We should have won or at least played for multiple Nattys with the talent we had. He recruited well during an era when other programs were down but squandered that talent. Like it or not he is one of the names (Hamilton, etc) responsible for our downfall the last 15 years. He underperformed his last few years and it was past time for him to move on. He also made one of the worst coaching hires hires in our history and set us back another 5-8 years.
 
#99
#99
Volizona said:
Fulmer is a VFL and we all have fond memories of the 90’s. With that said, he was a very average game day coach, really below average to be honest. I remember games we should have won the we lost due too poor coaching decisions and playing not to lose vs playing to win. We should have won or at least played for multiple Nattys with the talent we had. He recruited well during an era when other programs were down but squandered that talent. Like it or not he is one of the names (Hamilton, etc) responsible for our downfall the last 15 years. He underperformed his last few years and it was past time for him to move on. He also made one of the worst coaching hires hires in our history and set us back another 5-8 years.
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:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
#100
#100
Three things ended Fulmer. LSU hired Saban, Georgia hired Richt and Cutcliffe left. Spurrier left and rather than grabbing the bull by the horns, Richt slipped right past him and became the best team in the East until Urban arrived. We used to do well in Louisiana recruiting because LSU was down for a decade. Saban closed that door. Alabama got off probation finally and hired Saban. We'd twiddled our thumbs giving Phil chance after chance to right things. He did not. The biggest mistake UT made was keeping him after 2005. Though firing him in 2002 wouldn't have been unreasonable. Auburn, Alabama etc would have canned him in 2002 after taking top 3 talent and going 8-5 with it.
 
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