Arizona Election Audit

#252
#252
BowlBrother85 said:
Not to any significant extent... No.
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Really? How long would the test trials that were waived have lasted? You'd be better off arguing Trump did no more or no less than any other President would do. That would be true IMO. But you insistent to die on this hill that Trump did little to nothing. Like many things, Trump gets credit mainly because he was President at the time. You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that truth.
 
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#253
#253
C-south said:
The cost of everything is increasing at a very rapid pace
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No crap. I signed a contract to have a shed built in my yard and in only 2 weeks the cost of lumber went up by nearly 10%. Never thought I'd see the day when a 2x4 stud was $8.
 
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#254
#254
Weezer said:
Really? How long would the test trials that were waived have lasted? You'd be better off arguing Trump did no more or no less than any other President would do. That would be true IMO. But you insistent to die on this hill that Trump did little to nothing. Like many things, Trump gets credit mainly because he was President at the time. You just don't seem to want to acknowledge that truth.
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The executives and spokespeople at Pfizer have said that the Trump Administration deserves no credit for their vaccine.

"Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely self-funded," Pfizer spokeswoman Jerica Pitts said. "We decided to self-fund our efforts so we could move as fast as possible."

She is saying they moved faster in their development because they didn't wait for government funding. I'm not really being critical of the Trump Administration for this at all. I'm not saying they deserve criticism. They don't. I'm saying that at least in terms of the first vaccine to receive emergency authorized usage from the FDA, the Trump Administration does not deserve any credit. Although, to hear Trump describe his efforts, you really would think that Pfizer had taken money from Operation Warp Speed for the manufacturing and clinical trial phase of their vaccine's development. Basically, the only thing you can talk about is the bypass of FDA "red tape". I don't think that amounted to any significant time saved... and you are right, it is what any president could have and would have done.
 
#255
#255
BowlBrother85 said:
The executives and spokespeople at Pfizer have said that the Trump Administration deserves no credit for their vaccine.

"Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely self-funded," Pfizer spokeswoman Jerica Pitts said. "We decided to self-fund our efforts so we could move as fast as possible."

She is saying they moved faster in their development because they didn't wait for government funding. I'm not really being critical of the Trump Administration for this at all. I'm not saying they deserve criticism. They don't. I'm saying that at least in terms of the first vaccine to receive emergency authorized usage from the FDA, the Trump Administration does not deserve any credit. Although, to hear Trump describe his efforts, you really would think that Pfizer had taken money from Operation Warp Speed for the manufacturing and clinical trial phase of their vaccine's development. Basically, the only thing you can talk about is the bypass of FDA "red tape". I don't think that amounted to any significant time saved... and you are right, it is what any president could have and would have done.
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they only got emergency authorization because of Trump....
 
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#256
#256
Weezer said:
Not entirely true. Trump paved the way for emergency authorization of the vaccines. That includes the Pfizer vaccine. That's expediting the process.
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Some never let facts get in the way of a good argument.
 
#257
#257
LouderVol said:
they only got emergency authorization because of Trump....
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That is a reach.

Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by threat agents when certain criteria are met. Now, granted that was made by Alex Azar, a Trump appointee... but that is no different than what any other HHS Secretary would have done at the time, given the same set of circumstances involving COVID-19.

I see Trump supporters wanting to give him credit for doing what really was the bare minimum, which he and his cabinet members had no alternative but to do. I don't mean this as criticism of the Trump Administration. I don't give the Obama Administration any credit for the H1N1 vaccine in 2009, either. BUT THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T GO AROUND BEGGING FOR CREDIT! They simply don't deserve any credit.... which Trump voters are desperately looking for on his behalf... anywhere they can find it.
 
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#258
#258
BowlBrother85 said:
That is a reach.

Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by threat agents when certain criteria are met. Now, granted that was made by Alex Azar, a Trump appointee... but that is no different than what any other HHS Secretary would have done at the time, given the same set of circumstances involving COVID-19.

I see Trump supporters wanting to give him credit for doing what really was the bare minimum, which he and his cabinet members had no alternative but to do. I don't mean this as criticism of the Trump Administration. I don't give the Obama Administration any credit for the H1N1 vaccine in 2009, either. They simply don't deserve any credit.... which Trump voters are desperately looking for on his behalf... anywhere they can find it.
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Where did this "what any president would have done" rhetoric come from? I have heard it from multiple posters this weekend considering that Trump was literally hitler and the worst ever, doesnt match up with him doing what every president would have done.
 
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#259
#259
BowlBrother85 said:
The executives and spokespeople at Pfizer have said that the Trump Administration deserves no credit for their vaccine.

"Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely self-funded," Pfizer spokeswoman Jerica Pitts said. "We decided to self-fund our efforts so we could move as fast as possible."

She is saying they moved faster in their development because they didn't wait for government funding. I'm not really being critical of the Trump Administration for this at all. I'm not saying they deserve criticism. They don't. I'm saying that at least in terms of the first vaccine to receive emergency authorized usage from the FDA, the Trump Administration does not deserve any credit. Although, to hear Trump describe his efforts, you really would think that Pfizer had taken money from Operation Warp Speed for the manufacturing and clinical trial phase of their vaccine's development. Basically, the only thing you can talk about is the bypass of FDA "red tape". I don't think that amounted to any significant time saved... and you are right, it is what any president could have and would have done.
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I've repeated these but they deserve repeating. Here are 3 things the Trump administration did that made the Pfizer vaccine possible in such a short time period.

1. A major streamline in FDA approval process/protocol to get EUA.
2. A liability shield to protect companies like Pfizer from lawsuits resulting from rushed vaccines
3. A guaranteed purchase quantity to assure Pfizer that their investment would be recouped.

The latter 2 in particular allow Pfizer to safely self-fund the development of the vaccine. If you don't believe the latter 2 weren't critical in Pfizer putting all hands on deck then you simply do not understand this level of corporate spending/development.

The first was critical in moving product from lab to clinical use and was historic in speed.

Trump sucked in many ways but he and his administration definitely took concrete actions that resulted in us getting vaccines so quickly.
 
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#260
#260
utvolpj said:
He's not a Dr but once the guy at the podium starts pushing an agenda you disagree with you replace him.
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In retrospect, I can't think of a perfect time for Trump to have done that. Fauci became a media darling pretty early on, but there was no way to see it blowing up the way it did. And don't think Fauci wouldn't have been given a podium by the media if Trump would have removed him. If anything, the media would have made him a martyr and hid ego and rhetoric would have probably really gone over the top.
 
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#261
#261
LouderVol said:
Where did this "what any president would have done" rhetoric come from? I have heard it from multiple posters this weekend considering that Trump was literally hitler and the worst ever, doesnt match up with him doing what every president would have done.
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Everything comes back to Trump's ego, and his need to take credit anywhere he can get it. Republicans would have laughed at Obama, if he had tried to take any credit for the H1N1 vaccine in the fall of 2009. For some reason when it comes to Donald Trump, however, Republicans feel the need to indulge these ego trips of his.

Reality: Trump doesn't deserve credit for the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Period.
 
#262
#262
BowlBrother85 said:
Everything comes back to Trump's ego, and his need to take credit anywhere he can get it. Republicans would have laughed at Obama, if he had tried to take any credit for the H1N1 vaccine in the fall of 2009. For some reason when it comes to Donald Trump, however, Republicans feel the need to indulge these ego trips of his.

Reality: Trump doesn't deserve credit for the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Period.
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Then Biden deserves no credit for vaccine distribution I guess.
 
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#263
#263
BowlBrother85 said:
Everything comes back to Trump's ego, and his need to take credit anywhere he can get it. Republicans would have laughed at Obama, if he had tried to take any credit for the H1N1 vaccine in the fall of 2009. For some reason when it comes to Donald Trump, however, Republicans feel the need to indulge these ego trips of his.

Reality: Trump doesn't deserve credit for the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Period.
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Most people would of let this go a long time ago..Some...well.
 
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#264
#264
volinbham said:
Then Biden deserves no credit for vaccine distribution I guess.
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I don't see Biden pleading on social media for credit for the vaccine distribution. Was Trump begging for credit for the vaccines on Twitter in December? Yes, he was... and he still would be if they hadn't kicked him off.

Off topic, but the social media strategy of these two men is noticeably different. Trump used Twitter to air personal grievances, make wild boasts, play the victim card, insult his critics and beg for credit. Biden uses it to say "Get vaccinated America" and talk about policy.
 
#265
#265
BowlBrother85 said:
I don't see Biden pleading on social media for credit for the vaccine distribution. Was Trump begging for credit for the vaccines on Twitter in December? Yes, he was... and he still would be if they hadn't kicked him off.

Off topic, but the social media strategy of these two men is noticeably different. Trump used Twitter to air personal grievances, make wild boasts, play the victim card, insult his critics and beg for credit. Biden uses it to say "Get vaccinated America" and talk about policy.
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Are you kidding? Every speech Biden gives he's claiming credit for getting people vaccinated. He's held special announcements on milestone days.

Biden doesn't do much with social media but when he speaks publicly he's pounding his chest about the vaccine effort.
 
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#266
#266
BowlBrother85 said:
The executives and spokespeople at Pfizer have said that the Trump Administration deserves no credit for their vaccine.

"Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely self-funded," Pfizer spokeswoman Jerica Pitts said. "We decided to self-fund our efforts so we could move as fast as possible."

She is saying they moved faster in their development because they didn't wait for government funding. I'm not really being critical of the Trump Administration for this at all. I'm not saying they deserve criticism. They don't. I'm saying that at least in terms of the first vaccine to receive emergency authorized usage from the FDA, the Trump Administration does not deserve any credit. Although, to hear Trump describe his efforts, you really would think that Pfizer had taken money from Operation Warp Speed for the manufacturing and clinical trial phase of their vaccine's development. Basically, the only thing you can talk about is the bypass of FDA "red tape". I don't think that amounted to any significant time saved... and you are right, it is what any president could have and would have done.
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Cool. So what is it that dementia Joe is trying to take credit for?
 
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#268
#268
volinbham said:
I've repeated these but they deserve repeating. Here are 3 things the Trump administration did that made the Pfizer vaccine possible in such a short time period.

1. A major streamline in FDA approval process/protocol to get EUA.
2. A liability shield to protect companies like Pfizer from lawsuits resulting from rushed vaccines
3. A guaranteed purchase quantity to assure Pfizer that their investment would be recouped.

The latter 2 in particular allow Pfizer to safely self-fund the development of the vaccine. If you don't believe the latter 2 weren't critical in Pfizer putting all hands on deck then you simply do not understand this level of corporate spending/development.

The first was critical in moving product from lab to clinical use and was historic in speed.

Trump sucked in many ways but he and his administration definitely took concrete actions that resulted in us getting vaccines so quickly.
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In #1, you are advancing the argument of "Trump cut through bureaucratic red tape"... We don't know what that amounted to in terms of time saved... I've seen nothing to believe that it was a big deal.

In #2 and #3, you are talking about incentivizing the completion of their vaccine. That's great, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it helped with the manufacturing and clinical trial testing of the vaccine. It is a fact that the German government invested more into the production of that vaccine, than the United States government did.
 
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#270
#270
BowlBrother85 said:
The executives and spokespeople at Pfizer have said that the Trump Administration deserves no credit for their vaccine.

"Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine development and manufacturing costs have been entirely self-funded," Pfizer spokeswoman Jerica Pitts said. "We decided to self-fund our efforts so we could move as fast as possible."

She is saying they moved faster in their development because they didn't wait for government funding. I'm not really being critical of the Trump Administration for this at all. I'm not saying they deserve criticism. They don't. I'm saying that at least in terms of the first vaccine to receive emergency authorized usage from the FDA, the Trump Administration does not deserve any credit. Although, to hear Trump describe his efforts, you really would think that Pfizer had taken money from Operation Warp Speed for the manufacturing and clinical trial phase of their vaccine's development. Basically, the only thing you can talk about is the bypass of FDA "red tape". I don't think that amounted to any significant time saved... and you are right, it is what any president could have and would have done.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying. Cost-wise, Pfizer took no assistance from Trump's Operation Warp Speed. That's not where their benefit was. Their benefit was they weren't required to conduct the normal, lengthy trials that generally come before FDA approval. Trump authorized the FDA to give emergency approval to vaccines, including the Pfizer vaccine. You do realize they benefitted from emergency? approval?
 
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#271
#271
Carl Pickens said:
Are you trolling again? Surely you’re not serious
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100% serious. The R's have been blaming the media stream media/deep-state/rigged-election/social media/hoax ad nauseum for far too long. I'm simply suggesting that the victim angle is unbecoming of such a Grand Old Party.
 
#272
#272
It's my understanding that lots of money, and especially time, goes into drug trials for them to get approval. Emergency approval allows these companies to skip all of that.
 
#274
#274
Weezer said:
It's my understanding that lots of money, and especially time, goes into drug trials for them to get approval. Emergency approval allows these companies to skip all of that.
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Yep. And if all vaccines are completely safe and should be trusted blindly, why do vaccine manufacturers have complete immunity from things going wrong?

I am by no means an anti vaccine guy. And if this vaccine had gone through the rigorous testing that all other vaccines had, I would gladly take it without question.

I don’t see why people think because you question the vaccine you are an anti vaxxer.
 
#275
#275
Weezer said:
Perhaps you didn't understand what I was saying. Cost-wise, Pfizer took no assistance from Trump's Operation Warp Speed. That's not where their benefit was. Their benefit was they weren't required to conduct the normal, lengthy trials that generally come before FDA approval. Trump authorized the FDA to give emergency approval to vaccines, including the Pfizer vaccine. You do realize they benefitted from emergency? approval?
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Yes, Trump's Secretary of HHS, Alex Azar did... but that wasn't some extraordinary or unprecedented course of action. The same thing was done in the fall of 2009 for the H1N1 vaccine. To give the Trump Administration credit for that is to give the Obama Administration credit for the same thing in 2009... and neither deserves it. It's standard protocol during a pandemic.
 
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