McDonald's all-Americans

[Raebo]

i agree will some McDonalds high school All Americans turn out to not live up to that billing. But most do and with the help of there teammates, Right now if you look at the SEC it has more elite players then any other conference.

And it seems like S Car. is getting a lot of those SEC elite recruits.
For those of you that have been following lady basketball a lot longer than me, didn't Pat usually have the top recruiting class? I heard that one year she had 3 of the top 5 recruits. What would you consider was her top recruiting class?

 

[Amb3096]

And it seems like S Car. is getting a lot of those SEC elite recruits.
For those of you that have been following lady basketball a lot longer than me, didn't Pat usually have the top recruiting class? I heard that one year she had 3 of the top 5 recruits. What would you consider was her top recruiting class?

Pat had some great classes...1998, 2004 and 2008 were three of the best classes she assembled that I can recall.

Not just Pat, but Holly too. Holly just had a class 4 years ago that had 4 AAs, and followed that up with 3 AAs the next season.

Historically, Tennessee has had these types of loaded classes, and they lived up to expectations for the most part. Holly...well, that was more of a Holly issue than an overrated recruit issue.

 

[Raebo]

To be an elite team IMO, you have to have some very good recruits with decent players at all the positions AND a coach that can mesh them together to play good team ball playing to the team strengths and limiting their weaknesses on a consistent basis.

 

[djtee]

Pat had some great classes...1998, 2004 and 2008 were three of the best classes she assembled that I can recall.

Not just Pat, but Holly too. Holly just had a class 4 years ago that had 4 AAs, and followed that up with 3 AAs the next season.

Historically, Tennessee has had these types of loaded classes, and they lived up to expectations for the most part. Holly...well, that was more of a Holly issue than an overrated recruit issue.

I agree with you on the Holly issue 100%

 

[PAPI]

The sunshine pumpers can say what they want, but women’s and men’s basketball recruiting is much more accurate than football. We can “overachieve” with the recruits we got, but the teams that win championships get the very best players. Go back and look at it. The women’s game and championships are driven by star players. Sorry that doesn’t fit into the “Kellie has us fixed and we don’t need the top players” narrative. We need top players! We are below average in recruiting in a pivotal time for the program. Rennia is leaving and we have seen how the team plays without Rennia this year. I do think Kellie is a good coach, but you need the players to cut down nets. They are not getting any ultra athletic types either. We are getting more and more slow. When we play teams that are athletic and are in your face to guard you....we turn the ball over constantly. If Kellie doesn’t find a true PG in the portal, the 20 turnover games are going to continue. She needs to get a shooter and a scorer to replace Rennia. Current roster is loaded with players that will barely see the court.

 

[PG1]

The sunshine pumpers can say what they want, but women’s and men’s basketball recruiting is much more accurate than football. We can “overachieve” with the recruits we got, but the teams that win championships get the very best players. Go back and look at it. The women’s game and championships are driven by star players. Sorry that doesn’t fit into the “Kellie has us fixed and we don’t need the top players” narrative. We need top players! We are below average in recruiting in a pivotal time for the program. Rennia is leaving and we have seen how the team plays without Rennia this year. I do think Kellie is a good coach, but you need the players to cut down nets. They are not getting any ultra athletic types either. We are getting more and more slow. When we play teams that are athletic and are in your face to guard you....we turn the ball over constantly. If Kellie doesn’t find a true PG in the portal, the 20 turnover games are going to continue. She needs to get a shooter and a scorer to replace Rennia. Current roster is loaded with players that will barely see the court.

Agreed. Women’s basketball is different not sure Cinderella’s exist much in the women’s game. Teams with the best players usually win. Those are facts. Our recruiting is good enough to win lots of games and finish 3,4,5 in SEC but Final Fours should be the goal every year.

 

[djtee]

The sunshine pumpers can say what they want, but women’s and men’s basketball recruiting is much more accurate than football. We can “overachieve” with the recruits we got, but the teams that win championships get the very best players. Go back and look at it. The women’s game and championships are driven by star players. Sorry that doesn’t fit into the “Kellie has us fixed and we don’t need the top players” narrative. We need top players! We are below average in recruiting in a pivotal time for the program. Rennia is leaving and we have seen how the team plays without Rennia this year. I do think Kellie is a good coach, but you need the players to cut down nets. They are not getting any ultra athletic types either. We are getting more and more slow. When we play teams that are athletic and are in your face to guard you....we turn the ball over constantly. If Kellie doesn’t find a true PG in the portal, the 20 turnover games are going to continue. She needs to get a shooter and a scorer to replace Rennia. Current roster is loaded with players that will barely see the court.

Good call me and my brother had a chance to see class of 22 6-3 Ashlyn Watkins left at half it was a blowout. But anyway getting a player like her would be huge she is a beast on the offensive and defensive end .

 

[Volfan2012]

The sunshine pumpers can say what they want, but women’s and men’s basketball recruiting is much more accurate than football. We can “overachieve” with the recruits we got, but the teams that win championships get the very best players. Go back and look at it. The women’s game and championships are driven by star players. Sorry that doesn’t fit into the “Kellie has us fixed and we don’t need the top players” narrative. We need top players! We are below average in recruiting in a pivotal time for the program. Rennia is leaving and we have seen how the team plays without Rennia this year. I do think Kellie is a good coach, but you need the players to cut down nets. They are not getting any ultra athletic types either. We are getting more and more slow. When we play teams that are athletic and are in your face to guard you....we turn the ball over constantly. If Kellie doesn’t find a true PG in the portal, the 20 turnover games are going to continue. She needs to get a shooter and a scorer to replace Rennia. Current roster is loaded with players that will barely see the court.

Hopefully NC State doesn't win it all as they don't have any top 30 players or McDonald's All Americans on their roster. I would hate to see them send all the theories of recruiting down the drain. I think everyone knows you need a couple highly ranked players on a team to be a top team. I know NC State is the enigma instead of the standard. Finally I think the staff is going after the top players she came here from a mid-major and has recruited two classes one ranked as high as nine in the final class rankings. We'll see what class three looks like still undetermined you hope it will be a top ten class also. Going to need some patience and give this staff the time they deserve which is four classes. Sc didn't start building what they have until year four that Dawn took over same for Miss St and Vince. Were way ahead of where both of these coaches were after year two. We don't know how any player is going to play or fit in until they get here. I think at least two players in the next class are ultra athletic and another is better than we have playing at that position right now.

 

[LadyVol1908]

I really feel Kellie’s make or break classes will be 2022 and 2023. She has to recruit some top talent if we’re going to compete in Final Four and National Championship games.

 

[djtee]

Hopefully NC State doesn't win it all as they don't have any top 30 players or McDonald's All Americans on their roster. I would hate to see them send all the theories of recruiting down the drain. I think everyone knows you need a couple highly ranked players on a team to be a top team. I know NC State is the enigma instead of the standard. Finally I think the staff is going after the top players she came here from a mid-major and has recruited two classes one ranked as high as nine in the final class rankings. We'll see what class three looks like still undetermined you hope it will be a top ten class also. Going to need some patience and give this staff the time they deserve which is four classes. Sc didn't start building what they have until year four that Dawn took over same for Miss St and Vince. Were way ahead of where both of these coaches were after year two. We don't know how any player is going to play or fit in until they get here. I think at least two players in the next class are ultra athletic and another is better than we have playing at that position right now.

Not disagreeing with you but you can say they have MDA on the team 6-2 Jada Boyd war a five star and #5 at her position. 6-0 jakia brown-turner was a member McDonalds All-American Team in 2019 and rank # 4 at her position five star. So they do have elite and skill players.

 

[Winston Smith]

It's not my $*#@&$**#$ crap. Someone asked for reasons why the Tennessee players weren't chosen. I just listed one.

No doubt that Top players can underachieve and lower ranked players can overachieve.

Looks to me Holly might have recruited the wrong AA players. There are plenty of highly ranked players that don't fight, get kicked out of school or transfer.

I'm looking forward to watching this class next year. I think Coach Harper did well. Just needs one of those top ranked players in 2022 or 2023. You know, the ones that don't fight, etc....

The 2021 Tennessee Recruiting Class is ranked 15th and that's pretty good considering that Coach Harper inherited Holly's complete mess when she took over! Holly had some very good years of recruiting, but she nearly always did a terrible job of developing her players, or coaching them up!

Look at Mercedes Russell who was the # 1 recruit for 2013, but Holly did little to coach her up? She was barely drafted by the WNBA, but the NY Liberty took her with the 22nd pick. Then she was cut, but Seattle Coach Dan Hughes saw her potential and gave her a shot! It's taken 2 years of REAL coaching to get her where she needs to be & now she's been a part of 2 WNBA Titles! You can't teach 6' 6" & Dan Hughes has a good player now!

Jaime Nared is a similar situation and she was # 6 coming out of high school, but lousy coaching set her up for WNBA failure as well!

At least Kellie can coach and she'll coach her players up!

2021 women's college basketball recruiting class rankings: UConn moves up with Azzi Fudd signing

2014 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

2013 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

 

[PAPI]

I get what everyone is saying, but South Carolina and Miss St were trash programs before Dawn and Vic came there. They needed 4 years because there was no history and no tradition. A rockstar coach could have recruited top players here in 1 year. Holly did have great recruiting classes and I agree that she didn’t develop those players. To me, it seems like Kellie has a particular “type” of player and she isn’t going after the superstars. She wants players who are blue collar, which is fine, but you have to sprinkle in some stars as well. You can’t have a team full of hard nosed rebounders. The game is more finesse now. Being bigger than the other team is nice, but if you don’t have a competent PG who can break the press, you really are going to struggle. Also, she needs a SG who is fast and can really fill it up from 3. Miles is fast, but she is very limited offensively....which sounds like a lot of our players. Where is the really gifted offensive player who isn’t very good on defense??? Nowadays, I would rather have a team that can out score you than one that wants to have a rock fight and see who can get to 50 points. Those days are gone. Pat played that style and hardly ever had a great PG. But she always had stars and was a great developer of talent. Matter of fact, I can only think two true PGs that played here right off. Lawson and Marciniak. I know we have had others, but I’m talking true difference makers who could run the offense. Either way, we need a lot of help and it appears that we don’t have enough reinforcements coming our way.....

 

[PAPI]

Bobbit was another true PG.

 

[creekdipper]

Could someone name the "rockstar" coaches who were champing at the bit to leave their successful programs they had built in order to take on a rebuilding effort?

And what it would have taken to get them here?

Was Holly Warlick a "rockstar coach?" Is that how she was able to reel in top-ranked classes?

 

[PAPI]

Jeff Walz for one. I think it was in the public forum that he wanted the job. I even think Kara Lawson would have been a better hire. She is the 3 on 3 coach for the Olympic team, so she knows many of the top players. She also has name recognition with the players of today. There are plenty of coaches. UNC’s coach is going to be great! This was only going to be rebuild if you looked at it that way. Tennessee has everything you need to win big! The only thing they needed was someone to draw in the star players and develop them. Again, I get that some of us feel like we have to defend Kellie and she can do no wrong. I am totally behind her and want her to succeed...all I’m saying is if she keeps recruiting subpar, we are going to be a subpar team. Also, has Jordan Horston got better since last year? The only players I think have got better are KK and Rae. Rennia is steady, and the driving force. Where is the development with the rest of the players? They are still turning the ball over at an alarming rate. The jury is still out on recruiting. I think Kellie can develop, but they really need Key and Horston to take the next step in their evolution. Key has had her moments. Their is hope, but I’d feel a lot better if we had some stud players coming in next year.

 

[Amb3096]

To me, it seems like Kellie has a particular “type” of player and she isn’t going after the superstars. She wants players who are blue collar, which is fine, but you have to sprinkle in some stars as well. You can’t have a team full of hard nosed rebounders.

Kellie recruited a large number of those McD AAs, including all 4 that were signed by SC. All of them had offers from Tennessee as well. Same as the two from Texas for Vic. Ducharme, Verhulst, Wolfenberger, Teonni Key as well. It's not that she's not going after the stars; she's just not getting them.

 

[creekdipper]

You do realize that Walz is making twice as much as Kellie, don't you?

I think Louisville has played two ranked teams this year (vs. 10 games agsinst ranked opponents for us). And Walz's team lost to an unranked team the other day despite his loaded roster.

Scott Rueck was looked upon as a rising "rockstar" the last few seadons. Currently, I don't believe Oregon State is even ranked.

Everyone wants to have a top-rated class. But it takes time to establish yourself. I agree that a "big-name" coach would already have had recruits lined up and/or willing to follow him/her to Tennessee. But the powers that be were not going to shell out that kind of money. Only Wes Moore might have come for that salary, and he's likely on his last hitch given his age. Lawson and Banghart have not proven themselves on the court yet.

 

[PAPI]

I’m looking towards next year and it scares me. Without Rennia we look lost. Rae is great, but she needs to stop passing up shots. She needs to take 12-16 shots per game. Her forced shots are better than most of our teams open shots. I would take Walz in a hot second! He has shown he is a consistent recruiter and developer of talent. If Kellie is recruiting the top players and they don’t want to play for her at the Mecca of Women’s College Basketball, then that’s a problem. Maybe she needs better assistants who are ace recruiters???

 

[Volfan2012]

Not disagreeing with you but you can say they have MDA on the team 6-2 Jada Boyd war a five star and #5 at her position. 6-0 jakia brown-turner was a member McDonalds All-American Team in 2019 and rank # 4 at her position five star. So they do have elite and skill players.

Which ones were ranked in the top 30

 

[Volfan2012]

I am totally happy with Harper and she is here to stay for at least three years to come and we'll see how she does given time. Walz averaged ten losses per season his first ten years at Louisville including a 14 and 18 season. Just the last three years did he get under five losses a season. He is a coach that recruits a lot better than his team performs.

 

[PG1]

Kellie recruited a large number of those McD AAs, including all 4 that were signed by SC. All of them had offers from Tennessee as well. Same as the two from Texas for Vic. Ducharme, Verhulst, Wolfenberger, Teonni Key as well. It's not that she's not going after the stars; she's just not getting them.

It just makes it easier for Kellie fans to say she is only going to recruit girls that fit her system. Wrong she is offering the top 25 kids they are just choosing other schools and coaches.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

It just makes it easier for Kellie fans to say she is only going to recruit girls that fit her system. Wrong she is offering the top 25 kids they are just choosing other schools and coaches.

Are you not a Kellie fan? How do you think she is doing thus far? I’m just curious...

 

[Amb3096]

It just makes it easier for Kellie fans to say she is only going to recruit girls that fit her system. Wrong she is offering the top 25 kids they are just choosing other schools and coaches.

I agree...there's some revisionist history to say that the recruits that she got in 2021 were her first choice when it's highly likely they were not given who else held offers.

I said in a previous post that Kellie came in at a disadvantage since she didn't have the strongest creds. She's not like Vic, who can waltz over to Texas and recruit 3 All-Americans in the first two months. She needed to build her reputation. She got what she was able to get last year for depth and the upcoming recruiting class is a little better but still not on par with the top schools. It's disappointing that she didn't get any of the top recruits, but it says something that she was in the conversations for final schools. As the Tennessee HC, she's had a fairly good sophomore season, beat SC, played UConn close on national TV...all of which should help with recruiting. Year 3 and 4 is where she will hopefully move from being in the top 6 final schools for recruits to the final pick.

I agree with everyone who says that she needs to land the top players to stay in the SEC/National hunt, but I don't agree with those who pretend that she's not already in the hunt for them...whether as a critique or a compliment towards Kellie.

 

[djtee]

Kellie recruited a large number of those McD AAs, including all 4 that were signed by SC. All of them had offers from Tennessee as well. Same as the two from Texas for Vic. Ducharme, Verhulst, Wolfenberger, Teonni Key as well. It's not that she's not going after the stars; she's just not getting them.

True not getting them but she offered Teonni late if i`m correct ?

 

[Amb3096]

True not getting them but she offered Teonni late if i`m correct ?

I can't imagine she would given her sister was already at Tennessee. I'm sure that Holly had an offer out, and Kellie confirmed that she was still interested when she took over the program.