Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#156,051
#156,051
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Bias is a human flaw, shared by all humans. On that point you’re right. Unfortunately, racism is something that goes far beyond simple bias. Racism involves the fear of loss— loss of control, loss of power, loss of wealth, loss of an established systemic order. It has been proven again and again that our very basic systems still remain very racist. There is white justice and black justice. There is black opportunity and white opportunity. These matters are statistically true. You don’t need to agree for them to be true. They are just facts. The chance of being unjustly arrested, unjustly charged, unjustly put to death are all higher for black people. The opportunities for many jobs are starkly different for black and white people. Compensation is different, promotions are different, rates of being promoted are different. Again, it’s not important to agree with these things because they are just facts. Anecdotal stories, of a person who runs counter to the statistics doesn’t change those realities. We are a long way from equality of opportunity. I wish that weren’t true, but it is. The myth of “hire the best” imagines a myth where there are two choices: a single qualified white candidate and a single unqualified black one. That is almost never the case. The truth is that there are usually many (very) qualified candidates. It’s insulting to the hard work of those considered to pretend otherwise. The myth of the superior white candidate who was passed over is a story told to stir people up. I’m impressed that this group is carrying on a civil debate about this topic. I’ve resisted participation because it’s a strange forum for the topic. That said, we can’t ignore that undoing slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow and lynching is going to take some time. That doesn’t mean I judge those who disagree with me here as “bad”. I just can’t sit on the sideline without noting that there is a lot more work to be done. That work comes in the form of doing the extra work of finding excellence in places we normally don’t look. It’s a cheap shot to pretend like that equates to hiring lesser candidates or lesser people. That is rarely the problem.
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I will say this again...racism is not a white problem, it is a human problem. Replacing white preference for other color preference is not equality, and is not the road to equality...it is the road to disaster.
 
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#156,053
#156,053
Lofton/Durant4 3 said:
Playing devil's advocate a little here, but white people, mostly men, have received preferential treatment for centuries, if not mellinnia. I'm not justifying hiring someone because they're a minority, I'm just saying white males have almost never gotten the bad end of the shaft, period. It really has been a ridiculous run.
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Please don’t play devils advocate that whites today are guilty of the “white privilege” nonsense. That will not solve any problems the world is facing today. It will make things much worse.
 
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#156,055
#156,055
rjd970 said:
He was told/advised to stop posting.

Or

He has given up on the program.

Or

He was just fed up with this place.

My bet is on the last one.
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Well he put DW at a near “God” level status and promoted the idea that we would make a home run hire. If he can’t take the heat he should choose his words more carefully next time.
 
#156,056
#156,056
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I will say this again...racism is not a white problem, it is a human problem. Replacing white preference for other color preference is not equality, and is not the road to equality...it is the road to disaster.
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With due respect to you and your opinion, saying it twice doesn’t make it anymore true. The concept of diversity has nothing to do with hiring an unqualified black candidate over a white one. That’s just a bogeyman that isn’t there. It’s a story that’s made up to make people angry, and it works. It just also happens to be false. The pursuit of diversity is based on the notion that we should seek proportional representation among equally qualified candidates. That shouldn’t be problematic.
 
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#156,060
#156,060
Stoerner Fumbles said:
You edited the original post. I’ll edit mine. Of course a man is what he chooses to be. That is not in conflict with the the fact that we still have systemic problems.
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There will always be problems because people are flawed at heart. Man can't fix that issue. The narrative that people can't achieve great thing because of the system is ******** and it's old. It's simple. Want a job? Get one. Education? Get one. Be a convict? Be one. Everyone can be a success if they want to be. Opportunity is abundant. The problem is the lack of personal responsibility to achieve greatness for one's self. 'The man' isn't holding anyone down. A person regardless of what they are holds themselves down. Now can we hire a football staff please? I could give a rats ass if they're green. Just win.
 
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#156,061
#156,061
UTMVol76 said:
There is not a people on this earth that hasn’t been oppressed in one form or fashion. Our early American ancestors were a bunch of poor white Europeans who were oppressed by other white Europeans. History can be a lot more complicated than race alone.
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Yes. This is true. There are also different types of burns. There are burns that sting. Some that leave a scar and others than require you to amputate a limb. What racism has done to black people in America in particular is far worse than the vast majority of any type oppression that white people have experienced throughout history. The same white Americans who came here and massacred native Americans to get away from their oppression. As an adult, it’s irresponsible to create a false equivalent as a means to dilute the impact of racism on the black community. Racism is really bad guys. Racism allowed the Tulsa massacre to happen and nobody even bat an eye. Racism is why the FBI never declared the KKK as a terrorist organization but spared no expense to destroy the black panther party. I know a lot of you guys are conservative and such but please rethink your views.
 
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#156,063
#156,063
Stoerner Fumbles said:
With due respect to you and your opinion, saying it twice doesn’t make it anymore true. The concept of diversity has nothing to do with hiring an unqualified black candidate over a white one. That’s just a bogeyman that isn’t there. It’s a story that’s made up to make people angry, and it works. It just also happens to be false. The pursuit of diversity is based on the notion that we should seek proportional representation among equally qualified candidates. That shouldn’t be problematic.
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College admissions show clear biases by race, where some lesser qualified applicants are selected over more qualified ones. I'm not going to argue against the need uplift those who need it, but to say it isn't happening is provably false. I can't say whether that continues after college, but I suspect it does to some extent. I am an employer and would love to hire women or minorities into engineering roles, but there aren't many of either lining up at my door.
 
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#156,064
#156,064
Stoerner Fumbles said:
With due respect to you and your opinion, saying it twice doesn’t make it anymore true. The concept of diversity has nothing to do with hiring an unqualified black candidate over a white one. That’s just a bogeyman that isn’t there. It’s a story that’s made up to make people angry, and it works. It just also happens to be false. The pursuit of diversity is based on the notion that we should seek proportional representation among equally qualified candidates. That shouldn’t be problematic.
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Who said this? I haven’t seen anyone say that.
Fact is hiring a person because they are white or because they are not white are both racist.
Doing one May support the notion of proportional representation, so is deemed acceptable.
Is this right or wrong? I guess how you answer depends on how you feel. If the end justifies the means.
 
#156,065
#156,065
Stoerner Fumbles said:
With due respect to you and your opinion, saying it twice doesn’t make it anymore true. The concept of diversity has nothing to do with hiring an unqualified black candidate over a white one. That’s just a bogeyman that isn’t there. It’s a story that’s made up to make people angry, and it works. It just also happens to be false. The pursuit of diversity is based on the notion that we should seek proportional representation among equally qualified candidates. That shouldn’t be problematic.
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Equally qualified.. exactly! That’s what equality is
 
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#156,069
#156,069
SSVol said:
College admissions show clear biases by race, where some lesser qualified applicants are selected over more qualified ones. I'm not going to argue against the need uplift those who need it, but to say it isn't happening is provably false. I can't say whether that continues after college, but I suspect it does to some extent. I am an employer and would love to hire women or minorities into engineering roles, but there aren't many of either lining up at my door.
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Thank you for your comment. College admissions wasn’t mentioned in my post. Because education is a platform for opportunity, there has been an effort to admit with the pursuit of long term change. The bias if often overstated, but exists for the reasons stated above. Ironically the goal is to fulfill your desire to present a broader hiring pool full of a diverse group of applicants. I applaud your desire to hire more minorities and women, and hope our educational system will provide them to you. The truth is that the standard deviation between mean and women in computational skills is typically inconsequential (averaging below.2). The reasons for the differences seem to be cultural. Let’s hope that changing perception and equality of opportunity will provide you more women and minority engineers. Here is an interesting article on the topic:
Think Again: Men and Women Share Cognitive Skills
 
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#156,073
#156,073
As with most complex problems the answer can be the one thing that is the most obvious. If everyone made a conscience decision to treat everyone like they wanted to be treated and judged a person strictly on their abilities alone think of how easy it would be.

Yes it is possible but I fear it isn't doable. Human nature and the general make up of society is survival of the fittest. "I'll help you but I am taking care of mine first." is above all our main goal to some extent . Over time we have evolved into at our essence only three types of people: Sheep, Wolves and Sheep Dogs that's just who we are. And until we modify our collective goal we will be going round and round in the revolving door of distrust and unrest.
 
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#156,074
#156,074
Lofton/Durant4 3 said:
Playing devil's advocate a little here, but white people, mostly men, have received preferential treatment for centuries, if not mellinnia. I'm not justifying hiring someone because they're a minority, I'm just saying white males have almost never gotten the bad end of the shaft, period. It really has been a ridiculous run.
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Take your racist BS and GTFOH
 
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