Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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#156,027
#156,027
Lofton/Durant4 3 said:
Playing devil's advocate a little here, but white people, mostly men, have received preferential treatment for centuries, if not mellinnia. I'm not justifying hiring someone because they're a minority, I'm just saying white males have almost never gotten the bad end of the shaft, period. It really has been a ridiculous run.
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There is not a people on this earth that hasn’t been oppressed in one form or fashion. Our early American ancestors were a bunch of poor white Europeans who were oppressed by other white Europeans. History can be a lot more complicated than race alone.
 
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#156,029
#156,029
Glitch said:
If you are willing to fight even harder for those that you often fight with then this nation has a chance. I will always fight for the rights of those I disagree with just as hard as for those that I do agree with. That is what this nation is supposed to be about in the first place.
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Amen 100%
 
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#156,031
#156,031
I4Jay said:
I’d imagine within you guys circles, y’all don’t understand the feelings outside of the program.
There is a feeling that Tennessee has a ways to go when it comes to being inclusive.
No one wants to talk about it without angry accusations or scoffing at it but it’s real.
when kids are discouraged from coming here, high character coaches are told stay away, it’s a PROBLEM.

I am a strength coach, I’ve helped with camps for about 7 years down here. when I ask kids or mention Tennessee, the prevalent answers are they feel unwelcome.
I’ve mentioned this before but One of the top, if not the top QB coaches in America has nothing but bad things to say about the university.

So a new AD coming in and letting it be know that “you’re” important, will be included, and can thrive here is pretty important message to get across when the overall feeling hasn’t been that

(and when I say “feeling”, this is coming from parents, kids, other coaches)

Me, Being a lifelong Tennessee fan who’s black gives me a little different perspective.
when I’m rocking my T gear, I often get scrunched faces & asked “Tennessee? What!?!”

So to answer what does this have to do with coaching, it has to do with opening doors that were closing on us.
by no means am I taking the Haynesworth route and going on a race rage, I’m just pointing out that there is bad feeling out there
And Fat Albert is on one extreme and the people who claim “there are no issues like that here” are on the other end of the extreme.
🤜🏾🤛🏻
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Very interesting. Many thoughts about all that you've said here. I have no idea if all you're hearing is true or untrue; I absolutely believe you whenever you say you're hearing it from coaches, players, parents. But, is any of it true, or is it just perception?

I could go on with thoughts, and questions; but, I'll just ask about what I have highlighted. Are these both white and black players feeling unwelcomed? And, why are they feeling this way, no matter their skin color? Also, is it true that they actually are made to feel unwelcomed?

Counting this year, and going all the way back to '09, by far the pits of despair for us, we have finished outside the Top 20 in recruiting only twice, and still landed inside the Top 25 every single one of those years. Over those 13 yrs, we average finishing #13 in the nation in recruiting; and, as I said, we have been a firestorm for the most part over those years...an overall losing record of 73-75. So, SOMETHING is making recruits feel welcomed, and it's sure as hell not winning. Eight of those thirteen yrs, we have finished inside the Top 15 in recruiting; five of those thirteen yrs, inside the Top 10. Kids (highly ranked kids, as well) are still coming to be a Vol...STILL...in our time of hitting rock bottom...in our time of being the second worst program in the SEC. Why are they still coming, if they feel unwelcomed?

To the second part: this QB coach that you know, that talks sh!t about us...does he know Josh Dobbs or Kaidon Salter...both, as we all know, are black? I'd be willing to bet my life that not a negative word has ever crossed Josh Dobbs' lips about The University of Tennessee.

And, Kaidon Salter...this kid is one of the Top 10 QBs in the country, from Texas...the Texas Offensive Player of the Year...could go anywhere he wanted...but, even through a sh!tstorm...even through two different coaching staffs...with NCAA staring right at us...this kid, again, who is black, stayed as rock solid to us as anyone; him and Aaron Willis, also black, recruited their asses off for us...both never wavered...during the height of BLM, I might add. Why? If they feel so unwelcomed, and QB coaches sh!t on us, and we are not inclusive enough...why? Why come here?

If all the things you are hearing are true, how are still recruiting Top 20 classes in a time of being no better than Vanderbilt? How are we hiring the Derrick Ansley's, only a year after he jumped to the NFL? How are we hiring the Chris Rumph's, the Tracy Rocker's, the Robert Gillespie's...and on and on and on?

I hope im not sounding like this is an attack on you. It is most definitely not; as I said, what you said is very interesting, and could all be true...im just curious about these things, and hope you can answer them for me. Sorry to ramble...
 
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#156,032
#156,032
Glitch said:
If you are willing to fight even harder for those that you often fight with then this nation has a chance. I will always fight for the rights of those I disagree with just as hard as for those that I do agree with. That is what this nation is supposed to be about in the first place.
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It’s getting to where the word fight is disapproved in this country no matter what context you use it in.But I hear what you are saying and agree with you.
 
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#156,034
#156,034
I4Jay said:
I’d imagine within you guys circles, y’all don’t understand the feelings outside of the program.
There is a feeling that Tennessee has a ways to go when it comes to being inclusive.
No one wants to talk about it without angry accusations or scoffing at it but it’s real.
when kids are discouraged from coming here, high character coaches are told stay away, it’s a PROBLEM.

I am a strength coach, I’ve helped with camps for about 7 years down here. when I ask kids or mention Tennessee, the prevalent answers are they feel unwelcome.
I’ve mentioned this before but One of the top, if not the top QB coaches in America has nothing but bad things to say about the university.

So a new AD coming in and letting it be know that “you’re” important, will be included, and can thrive here is pretty important message to get across when the overall feeling hasn’t been that

(and when I say “feeling”, this is coming from parents, kids, other coaches)

Me, Being a lifelong Tennessee fan who’s black gives me a little different perspective.
when I’m rocking my T gear, I often get scrunched faces & asked “Tennessee? What!?!”

So to answer what does this have to do with coaching, it has to do with opening doors that were closing on us.
by no means am I taking the Haynesworth route and going on a race rage, I’m just pointing out that there is bad feeling out there
And Fat Albert is on one extreme and the people who claim “there are no issues like that here” are on the other end of the extreme.
🤜🏾🤛🏻
Click to expand...
Genuine question, and I'm behind so this may have already been asked, but.... why is UT perceived that way? Like what has happened at Tennessee that's different from other universities for it to bee seen as unwelcoming to minorities?
 
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#156,036
#156,036
Lofton/Durant4 3 said:
Playing devil's advocate a little here, but white people, mostly men, have received preferential treatment for centuries, if not mellinnia. I'm not justifying hiring someone because they're a minority, I'm just saying white males have almost never gotten the bad end of the shaft, period. It really has been a ridiculous run.
Click to expand...

How does the passive voice work here? Race-based slavery is the original sin of the United States no doubt, but slavery has existed for millenia mostly in favor of victors at war or of repressive authoritarian regimes. The Roman Empire was economically based on the general practice of slavery.

Consider how the Uighurs are treated in China today for instance. No doubt the modern world steeped in and progresses toward practices honoring human rights treats slavery and its legacies as immoral but it continues to exist in the world. Slavery and repression as a human problem have existed historically in the European world and these problems are not unique to European colonialism in Africa.

I remember Lester McClain and Condredge Holloway coming on. It was morally imperative that it happen. Seems like football has come a long way in rectifying and transcending this problem. I think we all have. When will we agree enough has been accomplished? Apparently we aren't there yet.
 
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#156,037
#156,037
Bruce Wayne said:
I love to see open dialogues about issues between fans of common interests. I think so much of the hate in this country is because people don’t know anyone different than themselves. We need to do a better job of reaching out to people outside our comfort zones.

I grew up, like many in rural Tennessee, in a small town with very few minorities or gay people. I’ve grown up and moved all over and now some of my favorite people fall under all those umbrellas. People need to be exposed to people from all walks of life.

Hate comes from misunderstanding and ignorance.
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I agree. I think so often these days people are too afraid to have open, honest discussions and too many are so quick to get offended or get their feelings hurt.
 
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#156,038
#156,038
LaagerVol said:
Genuine question, and I'm behind so this may have already been asked, but.... why is UT perceived that way? Like what has happened at Tennessee that's different from other universities for it to bee seen as unwelcoming to minorities?
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This is a good question because UT is near the front on many of the woke issues and hasn’t had many of the racial issues that have come up on other campuses.
 
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#156,039
#156,039
Lofton/Durant4 3 said:
Playing devil's advocate a little here, but white people, mostly men, have received preferential treatment for centuries, if not mellinnia. I'm not justifying hiring someone because they're a minority, I'm just saying white males have almost never gotten the bad end of the shaft, period. It really has been a ridiculous run.
Click to expand...
SMH..you don't fix a wrong by committing the exact same egregious wrong. Racism is not a white problem, it is a human problem.
 
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#156,040
#156,040
UTMVol76 said:
There is not a people on this earth that hasn’t been oppressed in one form or fashion. Our early American ancestors were a bunch of poor white Europeans who were oppressed by other white Europeans. History can be a lot more complicated than race alone.
Click to expand...
I say it all the time, and I am going to say it again..racism, and for that matter all prejudice and oppression, is not a white problem...it is a human problem.
 
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#156,046
#156,046
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I say it all the time, and I am going to say it again..racism, and for that matter all prejudice and oppression, is not a white problem...it is a human problem.
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Bias is a human flaw, shared by all humans. On that point you’re right. Unfortunately, racism is something that goes far beyond simple bias. Racism involves the fear of loss— loss of control, loss of power, loss of wealth, loss of an established systemic order. It has been proven again and again that our very basic systems still remain very racist. There is white justice and black justice. There is black opportunity and white opportunity. These matters are statistically true. You don’t need to agree for them to be true. They are just facts. The chance of being unjustly arrested, unjustly charged, unjustly put to death are all higher for black people. The opportunities for many jobs are starkly different for black and white people. Compensation is different, promotions are different, rates of being promoted are different. Again, it’s not important to agree with these things because they are just facts. Anecdotal stories, of a person who runs counter to the statistics doesn’t change those realities. We are a long way from equality of opportunity. I wish that weren’t true, but it is. The myth of “hire the best” imagines a myth where there are two choices: a single qualified white candidate and a single unqualified black one. That is almost never the case. The truth is that there are usually many (very) qualified candidates. It’s insulting to the hard work of those considered to pretend otherwise. The myth of the superior white candidate who was passed over is a story told to stir people up. I’m impressed that this group is carrying on a civil debate about this topic. I’ve resisted participation because it’s a strange forum for the topic. That said, we can’t ignore that undoing slavery, reconstruction, Jim Crow and lynching is going to take some time. That doesn’t mean I judge those who disagree with me here as “bad”. I just can’t sit on the sideline without noting that there is a lot more work to be done. That work comes in the form of doing the extra work of finding excellence in places we normally don’t look. It’s a cheap shot to pretend like that equates to hiring lesser candidates or lesser people. That is rarely the problem.
 
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