Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

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If they tried to screw him just to save money, then they all deserve to go down with him. I am a Vol, but that slimy backstabbing **** sickens me.

We should have just fired the man for doing a bad job...that was enough of a reason and the right thing to do.

Yep and this Board was all happy and said it was worth it to get messy so I don’t want to hear any of them complain when **** hits the fan. They believe boosters coming in here saying they can control it and it won’t get messy then they support them when they come on here and say Oops. This is why you handle **** professionally regardless of bad blood. You make a clean cut and move on. Instead this program will be set back another 5 years and I don’t think we ever make it back at this point thanks to morons opening the door. If you were complicit with the dirty cheating when you liked him then you shouldn’t be a Snitch when you no longer like the guy.
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

Pretty ballsy first post to come here and insult everyone by comparing UT fans to VT fans.


All that said, the fans didn't create this environment nor this investigation the University did so please don't blame the fans for this sh!t show again.

Thanks and welcome
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

My god brother how long did it take you to type this?
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

Holy War and Peace Batman. Welcome
 
How is your family Nick?
Transition has been difficult. Ripped from our overseas home and in limbo with no idea on our future.

Trusting God and doing very well though. I’d like to know where our future lies but I’m doing well at living in the present moment. My wife is a bit down right now but I’m doing my best to meet her there and is certainly helping.
Thanks for asking
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

I think you just cured my insomnia.

tenor.gif
 
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Sounds like new Texans GM wants to interview Staley per football scoop
Yeah he may get a couple interviews in nfl. Should have good JC relationships. Was at Tennessee as grad assistant. Young big time up and comer. That being said I want to hire an offense guy.
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

I don't ever want to see tl;dr on one of my posts ever again.
1610304467064.gif
 
Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I am no insider, so those looking for juice feel free to skip. It’s a long read and you’ll find no bombshells.
Background: Grew up in Knoxville and now live in another large southern city. Graduated from UT graduate school. Attended all home games as a child and had front-row seat for the Majors’ era and start of Fulmer. Attended Johnny Majors’ football camp for several years. Traveled to see Vols play in Athens, Gainesville, and Tuscaloosa. I don’t miss games on TV and follow recruiting vigorously. I casually know some low-level boosters, coaches, and former players. I am no insider, however. I just wanted to establish some level of credibility in here.
It pains me to the core to admit, but it has become clear that this program is mid-tier in terms of desirability. We are very unlikely to be able to attract a “top-tier” coach. Reasoning? Geographic-East TN is not a football hotbed. Competitive arena-“welcome to your new job, coach. Now go beat UA, UF, Uga, plus recruit against all of them, as well as Clemson, Aub,LSU, SC, UNC, and Kiffen”. Brutal.
In addition, there are somewhat intangible reasons why this is not a desirable job…currently. What’s going on with the admin? That’s for the “insiders” to tell us. I can lend a little color on that. I had a chance encounter with a Power 5 coach with UT ties who was part of the coaching discussion during one of these frustrating coaching searches over the past 13 years. He was very open with me when I asked why he would not to come to Knoxville. His explanation: large disconnect between the admin/board and AD/coach. Untenable and not built for success. He went on to explain that you won’t find that disconnect at Alabama. Now, this was pre-Boyd. Who knows if he can change this….or if he wants to.
What about illicit reasons? We can talk at length regarding amateurism and the NCAA. There are those programs that can fall back on their academic chops and the overall education package as a sell for recruits. The Stanfords, Northwesterns, Dukes and Vandys of the world. They recruit a specific type of athlete. I don’t believe that we-as vol nation-are willing to relegate ourselves to that level. The OSUs, UFs and Ugas of the world? They check all the boxes regarding attractiveness for top recruits (recent success, facilities, NFL players, strong coaches) but they also enhance those platforms financially for the families. I’ve seen those discussion happen right in front of me (not a UT recruit). It can be very intricate. These “programs” are in place, both for incoming as well as retaining players. I have a suspicion that our systems at UT are pretty good. Are they as good as say, UGa’s? You’d have to ask the players/families/handlers but until the NCAA is dissolved and the players start to win some court battles and get paid appropriately, we need to make sure our “system” is tight and competitive.
Imagine if you can, the situation you are in if you are the decision-makers here. The best analogy would be if our decision-makers are the board of directors for a company that is under-performing with an embattled CEO (JP), facing some legal or regulatory issues (NCAA), with a declining brand (we haven’t won anything in 13 years and have lost a generation of fans). It’s like Boeing, or a big tobacco company. You are simultaneously trying to find someone to rebuild the brand while dealing with the legal and financial issues associated with removing the current CEO. Don’t do it correctly and you can be sued. Plus, you now have to find someone that is substantially better to merit the burn. Is that guy out there? I truly don’t know. See above comments- the top tier coaches aren’t coming. That has been demonstrated time and time again over the past 13 years (Mullen, Brohm, Gundy, Gruden, Belichick, etc). It’s kind of embarrassing but the sooner we absorb that, the better. Hasty decisions over the past 13 years have led to our current state. So, do you consider retaining the current CEO (JP)? Aside from legal and financial considerations (I cannot comment), it seems to boil down to 3 factors. One-is there someone better out there who is willing to come? See above: unclear. Two-the labor force. In other words, the players. My opinion, the players are bigger, faster, and play football better than the previous regime. Underperforming, yes. Is there potential to increase the quality of the work force, yes (2022 class). How much does a change at the top jeopardize this? Some might say, don’t let the tail wag the dog. I would argue that without good players, there will be no success-at least not in the SEC. Lasty-how much motivation or desire does the current leadership have to remain in that position. To me, that is the most perplexing thing about our current situation. We have seen JP demonstrate some emotional attachment to this program exactly once: post-game press conference after UGA year one. The other examples of “fire” are largely related to crappy play by immature players that any coach would rightly lose their noodle over (JG facemask, Fla chalkboard). Does he truly want to be here? With huge contracts and massive buyouts, have we taken the fire from the bellies of many of these coaches? If he gets shown the door, I am not sure he would lose any sleep over this. Clearly, that is a problem.
Action plan if I mattered in this discussion? Be patient. Questions that need to be answered: 1) violations and repercussions. Don’t rush this. Be smart. 2) question 1 determines if can keep JP. 3) If can’t, who is out there? I don’t love saying this, but if can keep JP, may be wise to do so. I go back to the labor force argument. We will lose players, both coming and going that may be of scale to set us back to pre-Butch levels. Danger. Perhaps it is best to let him re-stock the cupboard (which he is doing fairly well) until he demonstrates he can coach or the right candidate comes along. In the meantime, rework his deal so that he has a little more “skin in the game.”
What if we find that we can’t keep JP? I am going to work under the assumption that in mid-january, we are looking at 2009 scenario and are looking at a Dooley-level candidate, at best (don’t give me Freeze. His record at Ole Miss was decent, but with paid players and they got caught. Huge asterisk). I would have to consider Fulmer. I’m prepared to take your punches, but look at Bill Synder’s brief return to K State and Mack in Chapel Hill. Right the ship, bring some nostalgia energy, and in Phil’s case, probably bring in some pretty good players. In meantime, look for the right guy for the long term….and let Phil’s contract reflect a graceful exit when that time comes.
What about Vol Nation? Strengths: Passion. Loyalty. Generosity. Weaknesses: often the passion can lead to irrationality and entitlement. I say this as one who has been there, time and time again. My family hates Saturdays in the fall because they know I will be a terrible mood approximately 5 to 7 out of 12 weeks per season. Often we rage because we feel the passion for the program and yet, we cannot control things. We give our all for Tennessee and expect it in return. Our emotions are on our sleeves. Unfortunately, sometimes that manifests as irrational thoughts about what does or does not need to be done to get us back to 1998. Anger and hatred towards players and coaches. We end up looking somewhat silly. It hurts the brand. We look bad in the media. Parody songs are written about us . It affects players, families, and coaches adversely. Is it possible to remodel the passion? This is one thing we CAN control. Perhaps put a classier spin on our passion? Act like we’ve been to the mountaintop before (because we have). I have to tell you, when I read this board, sometimes we come across like Va Tech or UscJr fans-those with much passion, but no credibility. I think there is a line we cross where our passion becomes a detriment. I will get bum-rushed for saying this but we do look like amateurs sometimes. So, consider this a plea to focus on what we do best without looking like we are in Blacksburg. Let’s let this situation play out and aggressively support the coaches and players left standing. GBO.

Stopped reading when you said big disconnect is causing our issues. Biggest issue is we have hired bad coaches. Pruitt has been given everything to succes, he is just not a good coach. Even if the administration and coaches don’t always see eye to eye, that has nothing to do with the coach not being able to be successful. If you coach your players up and recruit well, you will win here. Period.
 
Completely agree. The way this has been handled will be very unattractive to many quality coaches. But hey, if it means we have to “settle” for Freeze, then I am cool with it.
We aren't gonna pursue Freeze, we aren't gonna settle for Freeze. Freeze's name will never be mentioned inside closed doors of those making the decisions. You'll certainly hear national and other media talk about him being linked to the job, agents do all that, but theres 0 chance of him coming here.
 
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Stopped reading when you said big disconnect is causing our issues. Biggest issue is we have hired bad coaches. Pruitt has been given everything to succes, he is just not a good coach. Even if the administration and coaches don’t always see eye to eye, that has nothing to do with the coach not being able to be successful. If you coach your players up and recruit well, you will win here. Period.
Oh, I agree with you. The disconnect was simply one of the reasons why a good coach may not want to come to our university.
 
We aren't gonna pursue Freeze, we aren't gonna settle for Freeze. Freeze's name will never be mentioned inside closed doors of those making the decisions. You'll certainly hear national and other media talk about him being linked to the job, agents do all that, but theres 0 chance of him coming here.
Yup
 
I actually read it, Daddy Pants, but didn't watch the parody video thing. I've been wanting Pruitt gone, but have to say you do give me pause. Besides winning again, the thing I want most is for UT to not embarrass ourselves again with a coaching search full of rejections, so I had hoped (before news of investigation came out) that we would do the fire & hire thing. Unlike many posters, I do think Pruitt knows the x's & o's, but I don't know the best path forward - there's a missing link to Pruitt's football knowledge & the play on the field. From his public speaking, it does seem that he's not a great communicator, but that didn't seem to hamper him at his previous stops - were the players so much better that they covered up this deficiency? I'm not sure why we seem to have regressed so badly on both sides of the ball, but I do think a lot of that is more a case of bad momentum (losing) rather than lack of development. Anyways, the idea of UT finally making that big move (like the 2 MS schools hiring Kiffin & Leach - surely we're as attractive as those programs), was something that gave me hope for the future when this past season came to an end. Now that that idea seems less & less likely with each passing day, I have thought how it may not be exciting but maybe Pruitt can pull a Dabo and right the ship if we give him time. At this point every scenario is a fingers-crossed move.
 
"Hey...we could always do worse!" the new Volnation motivational slogan..😒

Really think about the ramifications of what saying that means..🤔

That really makes you wanna rum out buy the new hoodie and hat with that awesome slogan on it..doesn't it? 🤷‍♂️
I am thinking about what that means. I'm also thinking about the last three coaches and where our program that we all love is currently. And I'm thinking about Gus compared to all the other coaches alive seen people bring up the on here. I would take him over most of those guys.
 
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