Patience

[VOLanooga]

CJP was tanking for Trevor

 

[R481967]

Well-spake. Thank you.

Simple. Elegant. Goodly. Thesis-Worthy.

 

[tbh]

Now what if a Tennessee coaching staff knows their subject better than you and I do? What if they know a bit more about college football than us? About recruiting kids, developing them, forming a team out of them, and winning games and championships with them? What if they know every piece of that better than us?

When did we start assuming they don't?

Where did we lose the ability to wait and see? Where did we lose the ability to give a subject matter expert some leeway, some rope? Sure, they might just hang themselves, but...given that they're probably smarter on the topic than we are...they might just see further ahead to a brighter outcome than we can.

When did we lose patience, as a fan base?

Because I can assure you, we have zero of that now.


END NOTE: no,, this isn't about Pruitt. This is just as much about how we treat the coach after Pruitt, or the coach after that, as it is about how we treat him. This is about US, and a serious flaw we've developed as a community.

First, thanks for the movie recommendation...it does sound interesting and I'll have to check it out if/when it's available on Netflix or Prime.

Anyhow, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, right? I'm not sure if using a collection of anonymous fans in the interwebs as a measuring stick (w.r.t. wisdom/knowledge/acuity on the finer points of coaching success) is a great way to evaluate overall fitness for positions on the staff. The age of information in which we exist currently has changed and continues to change the game...presentation/availability of stats, recruiting, and the ability to go back and rewatch highlights/lowlights instantly. With that information and its availability to the masses also comes the ability of the aforementioned masses to drink from the veritable fire hose of data flying at our faces and dig deeper into more granular stat trends, as well as compare them (along with overall trending of the program w.r.t. 'big picture' stats like total offense/defense/etc) with those of more successful programs. Mix that with a generally passionate fan base (or cross-section thereof) and there are a lot of opportunities for folks to dial in on a handful of the more granular stats as "proof" that things are better or worse than they seem. Opinions differ widely, and are "backed up" by these grains of sand on the beach of data, and away we go...

In the end, it's a game that boils down to actual wins and actual losses. It's on the coaching staff to identify problem areas and correct them (and on the players to execute the corrections). When those adjustments are clearly not happening (or the problems are seemingly taking a turn for the worse), or the coaching staff can't at least effectively communicate its vision or plan for recovery and/or improvement to interested parties (a fan base who invests their time and money to support the team, for example), I'd think that is when patience begins to run out for some folks.

 

[landscapingvol]

The has been major improvement in the most important area, the roster. The roster is much bigger, faster and more talented than it was three years ago.

If the measuring stick is 0-8 then yes it has improved, but if the measuring stick is actual wins and losses vs competent teams then it hasn't really improved. However, if you seriously believe the roster has improved that dramatically, then why hasn't the record? Wouldn't that further indicate poor coaching and development?

2017 2018 2019 2020
UGA 41-0 47-21 43-14 44-21
UF 26-20 38-12 34-3 31-19
UA 45-7 58-21 35-13 48-17

Average 37-9 47-18 37-10 41-19
28 points 29 points 27 points 22 points

 

[rikberry31]

so.....then what, or better yet, who is the excuse for under performing if talent is there?

The biggest problem this season was the virus and the fact that every team had differen protcols. Tennessee lost much more practice time than many other schools due to their strict Covid protocol. I don't think many concrete conclusions as to what the state of the team can be made in this crazy year. One thing is for sure the overall talent is much better and recruiting has been very good and that is the life blood of a team.

 

[Skippy95]

The biggest problem this season was the virus and the fact that every team had differen protcols. Tennessee lost much more practice time than many other schools due to their strict Covid protocol. I don't think many concrete conclusions as to what the state of the team can be made in this crazy year. One thing is for sure the overall talent is much better and recruiting has been very good and that is the life blood of a team.

Provide the evidence that they had stricter protocols. I’ll give you a hint, there ain’t any.

 

[MaTaLa]

.

 

[kbear01]

Kentucky 34 UT 7..........................

 

[BeardedVol]

The biggest problem this season was the virus and the fact that every team had differen protcols. Tennessee lost much more practice time than many other schools due to their strict Covid protocol. I don't think many concrete conclusions as to what the state of the team can be made in this crazy year. One thing is for sure the overall talent is much better and recruiting has been very good and that is the life blood of a team.

Covid 19 is responsible for our secondary being out of place, taking poor angles, and giving a 10-yard cushion to receivers?

 

[TheMookieMonster]

What a dumb argument. The mental gymnastics expended to defend this guy is remarkable.

We lost all 7 of our games this season by 11+ points and most weren't even as close as the final score indicates. How is this part of some grand design? Be patient for what? For Pruitt to all of a sudden randomly understand how to coach football?

So all of these beat downs and kids transferring and decommitting, it's all just some secret grand design to get us back to the top slowly?

Ok.....

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Covid 19 is responsible for our secondary being out of place, taking poor angles, and giving a 10-yard cushion to receivers?

Social distancing.

 

[griddie]

Okay, here's how predictable some folks are on VN.com. Folks who believe they're witty. Bearded, for example. At some point, even though he's fighting it right now because I can predict his every move, at some point he's going to post in this thread. And what he intended to say, before I called his shot, is "oh, here we go, it's today's installment of JP's defense of Pruitt." He'll probably shift his message just to "prove me wrong," but we all know that's where he would've gone. Heh.

Patience.

This thread is not about Pruitt. It's not about Chaney. Not about Fulmer. Not about Butch. Not about any specific person or event. Not about any specific time frame.

It's about you. You and me.

There's a fictional movie about one year's NFL draft. It's called Draft Day. Has Kevin Costner in the lead role. A lot of us have seen it. For those who haven't, I do recommend it; far better than any movie about such a constrained topic should be. Here's the first of a series of 10 short youtube clips leading up to the climactic scene:



I'll summarize. Costner, the general manager of one NFL team, takes a series of seemingly nonsensical decisions in preparation for draft day. Then, over the course of the day, he seems to double down on the bad choices until, at the end, all the weirdly-shaped pieces of his plan suddenly fall into perspective and his genius is revealed.

Okay, so what? That's just Hollywood making up a feel-good story.

Well, here's what. Costner's character was smarter than the folks around him. The folks trying to give him advice. He knew exactly what he was doing. He had a plan, and he executed it. Even if they couldn't see how it would work until near the end, even if the team gathered no fruits of their labors until the very last minute, he knew what he was doing. He was smarter than everyone around him on his business, his job.

Now what if a Tennessee coaching staff knows their subject better than you and I do? What if they know a bit more about college football than us? About recruiting kids, developing them, forming a team out of them, and winning games and championships with them? What if they know every piece of that better than us?

When did we start assuming they don't?

Where did we lose the ability to wait and see? Where did we lose the ability to give a subject matter expert some leeway, some rope? Sure, they might just hang themselves, but...given that they're probably smarter on the topic than we are...they might just see further ahead to a brighter outcome than we can.

When did we lose patience, as a fan base?

Because I can assure you, we have zero of that now.


END NOTE: no,, this isn't about Pruitt. This is just as much about how we treat the coach after Pruitt, or the coach after that, as it is about how we treat him. This is about US, and a serious flaw we've developed as a community.

So we are flawed fans for not wanting to accept 16 years of dime store football coaching hires while donating millions upon millions of dollars and also time, which goes to UT for all things, not just football. That’s what you are saying, and these flawed fans should not be like Bama, etc. and want to be the best that it can be. How does that translate and shake out in real life - school, work? Is that what we should teach our kids, our players? Sadly, you are correct about some in our society being flawed, and it’s partially because they are taught that they should not have to compete, that things should be handed to them.
Sorry, but myself like many Vols fans want to have a team that is well coached, to come here from all over the country on Saturdays knowing our young men are prepared to play and that we have a chance at a victory against anyone. I remember those days. Do I want to win every game? Hell freaking yeah, that is part of being a competitor. Do I expect to? Of course not that just not realistic for any program. But we are not flawed my friend for wanting much much much better than this **** show under Pruitt which has incredibly surpassed who was thought of as the ultimate clown in Butch Jones. Really let that sink in.

 

[landscapingvol]

The biggest problem this season was the virus and the fact that every team had differen protcols. Tennessee lost much more practice time than many other schools due to their strict Covid protocol. I don't think many concrete conclusions as to what the state of the team can be made in this crazy year. One thing is for sure the overall talent is much better and recruiting has been very good and that is the life blood of a team.

There simply is no proof to back that claim up other than a few random posts by others on here, fact is all schools lost practice time due to Covid as well as reduced rosters due to quarantines. UT got to play all 10 of their games, many teams had their schedules reduced dramatically due to Covid and UT played with greater roster numbers as compared to other teams. It's odd how other programs were able to make "concrete conclusions" about the direction of their football team

 

[zjcvols]

We are 79-81 over the 13 seasons...when, do tell, may I start demanding better results from my favorite university’s football team which is historically a top 15-20 program?

 

[rikberry31]

If the measuring stick is 0-8 then yes it has improved, but if the measuring stick is actual wins and losses vs competent teams then it hasn't really improved. However, if you seriously believe the roster has improved that dramatically, then why hasn't the record? Wouldn't that further indicate poor coaching and development?

2017 2018 2019 2020
UGA 41-0 47-21 43-14 44-21
UF 26-20 38-12 34-3 31-19
UA 45-7 58-21 35-13 48-17

Average 37-9 47-18 37-10 41-19
28 points 29 points 27 points 22 points

As I stated in another post the real problem this season was the virus and the disruption, particularly as it pertains to practice. Tennesse's protocol was very strict and many other schools were not. I know there a lot of people who are sick of hearing this "covid excuse" but just because one is sick of the truth does not mean it is not the truth.

 

[griddie]

So, getting beat every week and playing bad football is part of some grand design?

For Pruitt fans it apparently is

 

[EZE]

As I stated in another post the real problem this season was the virus and the disruption, particularly as it pertains to practice. Tennesse's protocol was very strict and many other schools were not. I know there a lot of people who are sick of hearing this "covid excuse" but just because one is sick of the truth does not mean it is not the truth.

You have no basis whatsoever for that hypothesis. It is at best a blind guess.

 

[tnutater]

so.....then what, or better yet, who is the excuse for under performing if talent is there?

The Vols do not have the roster talent to be competitive in the SEC.
Only the stargazers could believe that we do.
The NFL draft proves our talent level every year.
If we had our 4 cupcake wins and not the two extra losses the SEC laid on us, we have 7 wins.
Within a reasonable expectation of our talent level.
Us Vol fanatics are NEVER reasonable.
FARH da Coach!!!!
Freeze or Bust!!!
Gruden, Soon!!!
Regardless of the opinions of some on here, I guarantee no head coach is a deity.
Turning swords into plowshares or our roster into champions is beyond the reach of mere mortals.

 

[landscapingvol]

As I stated in another post the real problem this season was the virus and the disruption, particularly as it pertains to practice. Tennesse's protocol was very strict and many other schools were not. I know there a lot of people who are sick of hearing this "covid excuse" but just because one is sick of the truth does not mean it is not the truth.

The University of Tennessee followed the same guidelines put forward by the state of Tennessee. Quit pretending like the state put forth guidelines similar to those of California or New York. EVERY team dealt with quarantines and limited practices but still found ways to field a competent team on game days.

 

[rikberry31]

There simply is no proof to back that claim up other than a few random posts by others on here, fact is all schools lost practice time due to Covid as well as reduced rosters due to quarantines. UT got to play all 10 of their games, many teams had their schedules reduced dramatically due to Covid and UT played with greater roster numbers as compared to other teams. It's odd how other programs were able to make "concrete conclusions" about the direction of their football team

How many key players were out this season for Alabama? Heck their coach tests positive and is on the sideline two days later. If Tennessee had a three negative test and your back policy a lot less time would have been missed.

 

[RhodesVol]

Patience. This is rich.

Let's take a look at Tennessee football over the past 15 years, how about that?

2005: 5-6 (This was the worst season in my then-lifetime. First loss to Vanderbilt in 20 years? People began to get restless about Phillip Fulmer. We should have had patience at this point.)

2006: 9-4 (Our patience was somewhat rewarded, as we won 9 regular season games, but ultimately came up short against Florida - surprise - and then lost the Outback Bowl to Penn State.)

2007: 10-4 (This was the last season that was really good in Tennessee football history. Our patience was fully rewarded after 2005. We backed our way into the SEC title game, despite losing to Bama and Florida. I mean, we lost the SEC title game in epic fashion, but we made it there.)

2008: 5-7 (Goodbye Phillip Fulmer. We should have probably had patience at this juncture. Had we known what was to come, we would have, but hindsight and all that.)

2009: 7-6 (Hello Lane Kiffin! This year was very fun, despite some heartbreak losses. A deflating loss in the Chik-fil-A Bowl to Virginia Tech, and then a midnight exit by our coach left the fanbase in a tail spin. Utter embarrassment ensued. I don't think being patient was very warranted at this point.)

2010: 6-7 (Hello Derek Dooley! We got worse by a game from the prior year after hiring the up and comer with an overall losing record as a head coach. But hey, we were told this was "Year 0" How could we not be patient?)

2011: 5-7 (Oh, Derek, it's going bad my friend. A 1-7 SEC record capped with a total collapse against Kentucky with a wide received playing quarterback in a game that it was obvious our players didn't even want to win. No need to be patient.)

2012: 5-7 (Goodbye, Derek. A repeat 1-7 SEC record ends with the firing of a coach that shouldn't have even gotten this year to begin with. Being patient was a detriment to us, because it saw that lame-duck coach bring in a recruiting class without any offensive linemen. )

2013: 5-7 (Hello, Butch Jones. We hired the guy that our last loser beat, but hey, he had a flat top! The Vols managed to eek out wins against South Carolina and Kentucky in conference. So, sad, and after the three years prior I could see patience running thin. It was just year 1, though, or was it zero?)

2014: 7-6 (Hey, a bowl game for the first time in four years! Our conference scalps increase as we add Vanderbilt to South Carolina and Kentucky from the year prior. Then we beat the vaunted Iowa in a bowl game. Man, we are back! No need for patience, this is the heyday. Sigh.)

2015: 9-4 (Our coach's incompetence cost us the Oklahoma game and the Florida game. Vols suffer a let-down defeat to Arkansas which was inexcusable, and come within a hair's breath of beating Alabama. We come up short, but man, that Outback bowl was fun again. Vols win nothing worthwhile, but we are sold that this is the good life.)

2016: 9-4 (This season was an utter disaster. After starting 5-0, our loser coach managed to lose to South Carolina to lose the SEC East title and then to Vanderbilt to lose a spot in the Sugar Bowl. Yet again, we had too much patience and brought back a guy that should have been fired. This team produced multiple pros, and with a good coach gets us within a hair's breath of the playoff.)

2017: 4-8 (Hey, that patience was rewarded with the worst season in Tennessee football history. You're right, we're just not patient enough. Vols lose every conference game for the first time ever. Good job!)

Coaching search from hell ensues

2018: 5-7 (Hello, Jeremy Pruitt. - Sigh - Whatever, this year sucks, but at least it's year 1 of a new coach. I mean, you'll always have that Auburn win, even if you lost to Vanderbilt to end the year.)

2019: 8-5 (Oh, baby! What a record. Oh, wait, you lost to Georgia State and BYU to begin the season? Oh, you lost to every one of your rivals? I mean, at least we won the Gator Bowl, and the season was a roller coaster. So, we had a good time, but there are some real concerns here.)

2020: 3-7 (Is this the new worst year in Tennessee football? Lost to Kentucky at home? Lost to Arkansas with a first year head coach? Lost six games in a row by double digits? Now we need to retool the entire staff for the third time in as many years? Players are transferring in droves? The team is embroiled in a potential NCAA investigation due to impermissible benefits? Now we need to be patient more than ever! That's the recipe to success.)

In the past 15 years, the Tennessee Football Volunteers are a combined 102-96, just six games above .500. Oh, and that is with four purchased wins on just about every season's schedule.

But, I mean, that's not terrible. Let's look at the conference record, that will make it better, right?

50-81.

Oh...

I guess you disagree, but after the last 15 years of revolving turmoil, my patience is all used up. Do you, I guess.

 

[99gator]

Listen, alligator. Fan of some other school.

They need you over at gatorzrulez.com or wherever you come from. You know, to talk about stuff like this:

"Oklahoma is a good matchup but they're not on our level. They're not SEC. They're not the Florida Gators. So we should put on a good show."
-- Florida LB James Houston IV on playing Oklahoma in the Goodyear Cotton Bowl Classic.

If I practice enough patience, you’ll be able to reference a Tennessee win over Florida when responding to me.

 

[landscapingvol]

How many key players were out this season for Alabama? Heck their coach tests positive and is on the sideline two days later. If Tennessee had a three negative test and your back policy a lot less time would have been missed.

You can't seriously be suggesting that the measuring stick is Alabama but a quick google search will list several players for other teams who had to miss games and practices due to Covid.

 

[rikberry31]

The University of Tennessee followed the same guidelines put forward by the state of Tennessee. Quit pretending like the state put forth guidelines similar to those of California or New York. EVERY team dealt with quarantines and limited practices but still found ways to field a competent team on game days.

You're also assuming that we played completely terrible all the time which is not the case. I would say the opposite is true, the team played well most of the time. Yes there were some bad bad plays and mistakes, mostly due to youth and inexperience but had it not been for some obnoxously bad qb play this season would look completely diffferent.

 

[dobre_shunka]

The has been major improvement in the most important area, the roster. The roster is much bigger, faster and more talented than it was three years ago.

See, this is where there is a genuine disagreement. You're apparently happy with an "improved" roster while others want an improved win/loss record and to be more competitive in losses to upper level teams.