Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[GojiraVol17]

Two separate high quality Coaches who have coached at high level everywhere they have been have run into the same issues under the same head coach...


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is it really that hard to see

Don’t over simplify it just to make yourself look smarter. I just mean Pruitt wasn’t quite the fit we thought he would be. End of story. Let it go

 

[Kingston Vol]

Jamey Chadwell owned the conversation on Saturday night, as his Coastal Carolina Chanticleers holding on to beat BYU 22-17 in a thrilling last-second victory to cap an amazing week of only-in-2020 circumstances. CCU, 10-0 for the first time in school and Sun Belt Conference history, whipped up an ad-hoc statement that stole college football’s attention on an otherwise forgettable weekend. And then South Carolina hired Shane Beamer as their next head coach.

Is Beamer – a career assistant late of Oklahoma and formerly of the Gamecocks, Georgia and Mississippi State, as well as son of Virginia Tech legend Frank Beamer – a worthwhile response to Carolina eating Will Muschamp’s $13 million buyout amidst a recession? Would Chadwell, a sitting head coach who turned an FBS version of an expansion franchise (founded in 2003, FBS in 2017) into a fresh new Group of Five monster, be a better or more deserving pick?

The former is impossible to gauge, the latter is a road paved with dangerous logic. This industry is not, nor has it ever been, a meritocracy.

In the Nick Saban era of the Southeastern Conference, you can drop almost every head coaching hire into one of two buckets: a Chadwell or a Beamer. A Chadwell is an outsider, with schematic or cultural bonafides that an athletic director and/or booster corps believes will translate successfully to the SEC. A Beamer lacks the head coaching experience and can’t boast a proven working system, but has knocked around the league long enough to know its hidden politics and what it takes to make the SEC’s signature blood sausage, i.e. recruiting.

Sam Pittman is a Beamer. Eli Drinkwitz is a Chadwell. Jeremy Pruitt and Kirby Smart and Matt Luke are Beamers, Joe Moorhead and Butch Jones and Kevin Sumlin are Chadwells. Sometimes you can be both (Jimbo Fisher had league “experience” and a complete head coaching brand by the time he got to College Station, and in a scratch-and-dent sort of trajectory; so did Lane Kiffin when he got to Ole Miss), or become both (Dan Mullen was a Beamer when he got to Mississippi State and a Chadwell by the time Florida hired him).

It’s not important to figure out which is better. I’m not even sure that’s possible. The point of the exercise is that these two ideas of a man — a promising young head coach with a new idea, or an already accomplished doer of dirt in the SEC — are often mutually exclusive, and often the decision makers at schools like South Carolina choose to hire one and hope the new coach fills out his staff with the other kind.

Every SEC hire is a Beamer or a Chadwell

 

[Batman1948]

I’m honestly flabbergasted we aren’t giving up 60 points a game, guys are still playing hard, and some high profile recruits are rock solid. I don’t know what to make of it. Pruitt must really garner a lot of respect from kids.

He’s just the opposite of a leader, an uncouth bastard to his peers with no tact. God help us though if he ever learns how to manage QBs and score points. He might make something of himself.

I believe he has a mother and father so he couldn't be what you called him. You don't have to like him but there's no reason to call him out like that. I believe you're a better man than that.

 

[SSVol]

No, it doesn't mean he's done. It means UT, which is already debt servicing a financial shortfall for this year with another projected for next year, will have to source upward of $20MM for a coaching search it doesn't want. And find someone who's the right fit for UT-- NOT as easy as fans think-- and is willing to come to UT on terms UT is willing to offer. And it means Randy Boyd is willing to do this and Phillip Fulmer wants to do this, when both wanted to stabilize the program with a five-year hire.

None of which means it can't be done or won't be done. But it also doesn't mean it will be done or that fans or the media will know it's being done. The season is going to play out and UT will continue to work from within.

If there were any hint that Pruitt has a seed of teachable humility, I'd support giving him more time. I see none. So the issue isn't patience, it's futility. A man that won't admit failure can't be taught, and if he can't be taught he won't succeed.

 

[Headvol]

People around here are really impatient, but Dooley and Butch weren't fired because of a lack of patience. It isn't like Dooley was fired after a single bad season; he was fired after 3 bad seasons. Butch was fired after having 1 good season out of 5 (2015), and his 5th and final season was the worst in school history. The impatience thing would be more valid if we fired Dooley after 2010 or 2011 or if we fired Butch after 2014 or 2016.

You’re really contradicting your own point by saying we’re impatient. We’ve been relevant about 2 out of the last 15 seasons. I’d say there’s a decent reason for fans to lose patience.

 

[volatil]

 

[Devo182]

In an era when our true base defense is Nickel, some Dime, you can't be missing at cornerback/star.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Of course, coaches are wanting their names floated out there. That's been true for the last two coaching searches.

Not sure why people keep thinking I'm some sort of advocate for Pruitt. I've said many times that I never thought Pruitt was a good hire or a good fit for UT. He wasn't ready for the job and he hasn't learned quickly. I'm not even sure how teachable he is. The only thing I like about the guy is his family. His wife and kids are wonderful, and all this hate and negativity is hard on them. Families have it rough during times like this.

Pruitt is who he's always been. The mistake was made when the hire was made. No matter what decision is made now, UT is going to pay and pay and pay for it going forward.

As much as I dislike Pruitt I will say, I am shocked at how unprepared he was for the job. You would think being around Saban, Jimbo, Richt, he would've learned a thing or two.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

 

[GojiraVol17]

As much as I dislike Pruitt I will say, I am shocked at how unprepared he was for the job. You would think being around Saban, Jimbo, Richt, he would've learned a thing or two.

I for sure have been shocked by it. I was really hopeful

 

[05_never_again]

You’re really contradicting your own point by saying we’re impatient. We’ve been relevant about 2 out of the last 15 seasons. I’d say there’s a decent reason for fans to lose patience.

I don't see a contradiction. People are impatient, but we didn't fire Dooley or Butch because of that.

I mean, was there really an argument for keeping either of those coaches? If we exercised more patience with them, does anybody think they would have turned it around? It isn't like they were fired after just 1 or 2 bad years.

 

[revjayp]

No, it doesn't mean he's done. It means UT, which is already debt servicing a financial shortfall for this year with another projected for next year, will have to source upward of $20MM for a coaching search it doesn't want. And find someone who's the right fit for UT-- NOT as easy as fans think-- and is willing to come to UT on terms UT is willing to offer. And it means Randy Boyd is willing to do this and Phillip Fulmer wants to do this, when both wanted to stabilize the program with a five-year hire.

None of which means it can't be done or won't be done. But it also doesn't mean it will be done or that fans or the media will know it's being done. The season is going to play out and UT will continue to work from within.

I think he’s done. Whether it’s this year or next. He’s a lame duck coach. It does sound like the school is in a bind and you really can’t predict next years attendance, concessions or anything. It’s a tough spot.
I only direct my questioning to you because you are connected and make the most sense even though I don’t like what you’re saying. Lol.

 

[snowvols]

Please let Bailey air it out a little this game and not 90% swing passes. Vandy is 8th from the bottom in pass defense this season and now are missing almost everyone. Call the game like you did at the end of the UF game. Let Wideman and Hyatt play.

 

[millst987]

This Vandy game needs to be canceled
Who wants to watch this ish?

 

[LA Vol]

As much as I dislike Pruitt I will say, I am shocked at how unprepared he was for the job. You would think being around Saban, Jimbo, Richt, he would've learned a thing or two.

Being a good HC requires different skills than being a good DC. He just didn't transition into the job and he doesn't seem to embrace some parts of it. UT is a big job. He hasn't been up to it, and neither was Butch or Dooley.

 

[jakez4ut]

Seriously.... without typing the word money (Bc let’s be honest, no one except the actual people who handle or provide the money REALLY know...). I would love to hear a valid argument as to why someone thinks Jeremy Pruitt should be our head coach for 2021.

there may not be one. doesn't mean that he won't be here next year. b/c, what @LA Vol is talking about is a real thing.

on the leverage table, we're on the short side, in most all negotiations with a candidate we'd think worthy.....we have this inflated perception of ourselves, and on the one hand, it's accurate.
but when it comes time to cut checks and sign deals, you kinda figure out where you really are....

and if our past searches have taught me anything, it's that 'be careful what you wish for'.

and that's not a ringing endorsement of pruitt, or an argument to keep him. just maybe an admission that we're in the wonderful world of "you don't have a choice".

some will say "freeze wants the job". and i'm sure he does. and i'd hire him. on football stuff only, it's a no brainer....

it's just not gonna be "football only" stuff when it comes time to write up contracts....and getting everyone that needs to be on that same page, actually on that same page....money aside, i think this is the largest hurdle we have....in almost every regard when it comes to the football program. lots of chiefs....

 

[Kingston Vol]

As much as I dislike Pruitt I will say, I am shocked at how unprepared he was for the job. You would think being around Saban, Jimbo, Richt, he would've learned a thing or two.

Saban micromanages the **** out of his staff, so he learned it there. Saban is just really good at it.

He didn't have a good relationship with Richt or Jimbo so not surprising he didn't learn anything.

 

[Aesius]

Ideally they field a team so patchwork that we easily win but it does nothing to bolster Pruitt's chances of remaining here through 2021.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Being a good HC requires different skills than being a good DC. He just didn't transition into the job and he doesn't seem to embrace some parts of it. UT is a big job. He hasn't been up to it, and neither was Butch or Dooley.

I think a guy like Malzahn, if we could get him, would be about the perfect fit for what we need.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I for sure have been shocked by it. I was really hopeful

Its not the on field part for me, but you would think at least 2 of those guys would've taught him how to handle the media/fans and how to kiss babies and shake hands. Also how to build a roster. As far as on field he's like every other Saban assistant struggles without Saban's cache of 5 stars

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I think a guy like Malzahn, if we could get him, would be about the perfect fit for what we need.

YES YES YES

 

[Batman1948]

Seeing us fall apart and giants get better every week..... Fitzgerald was a massive loss that isn’t talked about.

This all day. I don't know how to quantify losing a great S&C coach. I do believe that this move has played a big part in some of our issues this year. Maybe someone closer to the program can weigh in on this topic.

 

[revjayp]

Being a good HC requires different skills than being a good DC. He just didn't transition into the job and he doesn't seem to embrace some parts of it. UT is a big job. He hasn't been up to it, and neither was Butch or Dooley.

Do you think some of these coaches mentioned (chadwell, Napier, etc) could work here? Or do you believe it’s P5 coach or bust?

 

[Volbucky]

Being a good HC requires different skills than being a good DC. He just didn't transition into the job and he doesn't seem to embrace some parts of it. UT is a big job. He hasn't been up to it, and neither was Butch or Dooley.

Have the decision makers learned from their failures? That’s the biggest question.

 

[SSVol]

As much as I dislike Pruitt I will say, I am shocked at how unprepared he was for the job. You would think being around Saban, Jimbo, Richt, he would've learned a thing or two.

I'm a very capable engineer, but I'm also the president of my company. I honestly feel like I can't do both well at the same time, and the result is that I'm not very good at the president part. I think he simply will not or can not find the right coordinators and let them do their job, and the end result is that he ends up being a poor OC, DC, and CEO. As long as he is wired to be a DC, and trying to act like a CEO (and moonlighting as an OC), he will fail.