Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[mr.checkerboards]

I’m out on anymore Bama hires. That ship has sailed. And Friend needs to go yesterday.

The thing for me with Sark is he has had success outside of Bama. He was 34-29 at Washington and set Petersen up for success there before his run. He was also off to a 12-6 start before his drinking problem got him canned at USC. I would consider him because he's had success outside of Bama. Guys who have only had success at Bama are the issue.

 

[Pacer92]

I found this really interesting, how the programs were in similar spots and what actually happens when you make the right hire

In the three years before a coaching change (2015-17), Florida was 23-15, Texas A&M was 23-16 and Tennessee was 22-16.

Going by 247Sports’s Team Talent rankings, Tennessee’s roster (12th-best) was more talented in 2017 than either Florida (17th) or Texas A&M’s (15th)

The Vols slipped to 15th in 2018, 16th in 2019 and were ranked 15th again this season.

Florida’s has jumped from 12th in 2018 to 7th this year, thanks in large part to a number of 5-star transfers Mullen has brought in with back-to-back top 10 signing classes.

Texas A&M was 16th in Fisher’s first season and are up to 11th this year. He’s signed the No. 4 and No. 6 recruiting classes the past two seasons.

So how do these three coaches compare as their Year Threes wind down?

Mullen is 27-6 at Florida. Fisher is 22-10 with the Aggies. Pruitt is just 15-17 in Knoxville.

The reality is Tennessee has the opportunity to make a special move that would yield these results and the guy is begging for the job but we have a bunch of boobs who want to crawl on their moral high horse and either keep Pruitt for 5 more years or give Tee freaking Martin the job, that line of thinking is why Tennessee is where it is. Always trying to reinvent the wheel or appease people who don't matter anymore

That’s a good post and comparison. The sobering part is both of those programs hired/spent big money on proven HC’s...you get what you pay for.

We used to be able to compare our program to the best in the country. Then it slipped to the next tier...Auburn, Texas A&M, Florida, etc. As sad as it may sound, we aren’t comparable to anyone, but with the worst teams in the SEC...on every level.

 

[05_never_again]

They are ranked. Beat Napier who beat Campbell. Have game day this week. He is a good coach.

He might be, like I said. However if he was from outside Tennessee or the southeast, nobody here would know who he is. He's from East Tennessee and is having a good year at a G5 school. He has a less impressive resume than Butch did before he took this job and is the epitome of a "prove it" coach, which many here profess to not want this time.

 

[HankHill]

The thing for me with Sark is he has had success outside of Bama. He was 34-29 at Washington and set Petersen up for success there before his run. He was also off to a 12-6 start before his drinking problem got him canned at USC. I would consider him because he's had success outside of Bama. Guys who have only had success at Bama are the issue.

Sark isn’t a bama guy. Would love it.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

I honestly believe fans have had enough and are checking out more and more. If the powers at be don’t make a change, I think they will see the results next fall. Neyland will be half full and fans will have finally said enough is enough. I find it hard to believe they could be so tone deaf. If so, Fulmer needs to go. I still believe everything goes over a cliff for Pruitt after Saturday when we lose by double digits again to one of our top rivals. Plus, recruiting was his one saving grace and we are starting to see that slip now.

For once, there is a good pool of coaches to chose from.

1. Freeze
2. Herman
3. Napier
4. Chadwell

I don’t even think you should go past two if Texas fires Herman. If Fulmer and others don’t like Freeze, get Herman signed the day after he is fired.

 

[HankHill]

I found this really interesting, how the programs were in similar spots and what actually happens when you make the right hire

In the three years before a coaching change (2015-17), Florida was 23-15, Texas A&M was 23-16 and Tennessee was 22-16.

Going by 247Sports’s Team Talent rankings, Tennessee’s roster (12th-best) was more talented in 2017 than either Florida (17th) or Texas A&M’s (15th)

The Vols slipped to 15th in 2018, 16th in 2019 and were ranked 15th again this season.

Florida’s has jumped from 12th in 2018 to 7th this year, thanks in large part to a number of 5-star transfers Mullen has brought in with back-to-back top 10 signing classes.

Texas A&M was 16th in Fisher’s first season and are up to 11th this year. He’s signed the No. 4 and No. 6 recruiting classes the past two seasons.

So how do these three coaches compare as their Year Threes wind down?

Mullen is 27-6 at Florida. Fisher is 22-10 with the Aggies. Pruitt is just 15-17 in Knoxville.

The reality is Tennessee has the opportunity to make a special move that would yield these results and the guy is begging for the job but we have a bunch of boobs who want to crawl on their moral high horse and either keep Pruitt for 5 more years or give Tee freaking Martin the job, that line of thinking is why Tennessee is where it is. Always trying to reinvent the wheel or appease people who don't matter anymore

“Mehlen”
“Can’t recruit”
“Goofy”
“Won’t last”
“Butch with a visor”

 

[05_never_again]

I honestly believe fans have had enough and are checking out more and more. If the powers at be don’t make a change, I think they will see the results next fall. Neyland will be half full and fans will have finally said enough is enough. I find it hard to believe they could be so tone deaf. If so, Fulmer needs to go. I still believe everything goes over a cliff for Pruitt after Saturday when we lose by double digits again to one of our top rivals. Plus, recruiting was his one saving grace and we are starting to see that slip now.

For once, there is a good pool of coaches to chose from.

1. Freeze
2. Herman
3. Napier
4. Chadwell

I don’t even think you should go past two if Texas fires Herman. If Fulmer and others don’t like Freeze, get Herman signed the day after he is fired.

If Herman isn't having success at Texas, what makes you think he'd be successful here? I think Tennessee and Texas are actually kind of similar jobs, especially in the sense of dealing with boosters and needing to be a quasi-politician. Also, Tennessee is a more difficult recruiting job than Texas is.

 

[rekinhavoc]

Two all stock identical cars racing . Average Joe vs. a Nascar veteran. Who do you choose?

Pruitt knows how to drive a car.

Freeze,Campbell,Napier,...etc, know how to drive the sh!t out of a car.

 

[Volfanatic_20]

9 wins should be the only way he saves his job next year.

I thought about this the other week. If he is brought back I think we need to win the East to retain him. The team will be all of his recruits. No more excuses.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I honestly believe fans have had enough and are checking out more and more. If the powers at be don’t make a change, I think they will see the results next fall. Neyland will be half full and fans will have finally said enough is enough. I find it hard to believe they could be so tone deaf. If so, Fulmer needs to go. I still believe everything goes over a cliff for Pruitt after Saturday when we lose by double digits again to one of our top rivals. Plus, recruiting was his one saving grace and we are starting to see that slip now.

For once, there is a good pool of coaches to chose from.

1. Freeze
2. Herman
3. Napier
4. Chadwell

I don’t even think you should go past two if Texas fires Herman. If Fulmer and others don’t like Freeze, get Herman signed the day after he is fired.

Any name on that list would be fine. I’d also be fine with giving Sark a shot.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

“Mehlen”
“Can’t recruit”
“Goofy”
“Won’t last”
“Butch with a visor”

I still don’t like him but would kill for him to be the HC right now

 

[Volfanatic_20]

Pruitt has no hope with a 22 class currently. As it looks he will be 3-7 (barring Vandy win) and have lost all but 4 (16 of 20) of his losses by double digits (assuming UF and AM beat us by double digits. All of his assistants will be on expiring deals. Fans are already apathetic BEFORE we play the 5 and 6 ranked teams in the country. You think fan apathy is bad now, just wait if chalk plays out.

Which makes no sense what atlvol has said

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I thought about this the other week. If he is brought back I think we need to win the East to retain him. The team will be all of his recruits. No more excuses.

Thats how I feel as well, but im sure our admin and some on here would be pumping sunshine for him with a 6 win season because somehow for the 12th year in a row we have a young team.

 

[TrippieRedd]

Eh, finally realized we aren’t hiring a new coach this year. Program will keep falling and falling. We don’t have money now? Well just wait till next year, when you don’t sell anything.

 

[vol9799]

Okay okay okay....

Bear with me and let’s assume Pruitt isn’t replaced.

What would your priorities to fix this team? What assistants would you move around? What seniors would you try and talk into staying? Etc...


For me, in no particular order:

• I’d look to move on from Weinke. Ty Simpson recruitment be damned. I mean, it’s hard for me to be too critical of him because JG is a bag of ****, Bailey missed the entire offseason, and Mauer was suicidal so doubt he was focusing on his craft. But as bag a ****** as JG is, he’s regressed. Shrout never has improved, etc. I’d look at Tee Martin as the natural replacement. Him or Long.
• Id move Osovet to something other than TE coach. We’ve gotten nothing from the position all year, and it was fairly damning when Jacob Warren, during his media availability, pointed out how the tight ends had to teach Joe about the position. That ain’t good. Joe is a creative offensive mind and seems like a talented recruiter. He has a position on the staff - but Im not 100% sure what it is yet.
• Niedermeyer has a background in defense, and I hate to judge him too harshly, but I’m not sure he needs to be coaching ILB’s. HT has regressed this year and neither Banks nor Crouch have improved.
• I’d tell Len’Neth Whitehead that yeah, I know you want to play RB, but his path to the field is at LB. There was a lot of talk during his recruitment that his best position was LB. With Gray, Dee, Smalls, Hodge, and the incoming freshman - we have a log jam at running back. Meanwhile, outside of HT- we have nothing proven at LB. Some players have flashed, like Joseph, but for my money, LB is our biggest question mark going forward.
• I’d thank Brandon Kennedy and most of the seniors for their service. Maybe ask Fant, Solomon, and Palmer to come back.
• I’d tell Cooper Mays to spend the entire offseason working at center. And I’d sell Cade on the idea of playing side by side with his brother if he’s willing to return.
• Id do my best to bring Tosh or Bo Davis in as DL coach.
• Id scour the earth for a transfer quarterback. Darriel Mack, formerly of UCF, would be someone I would look closely at. Dual threat QB with a few years eligibility left. Played well against LSU a few years back. I’d encourage every QB not named Harrison Bailey or Kaiden Salter to “look around” this offseason.
• Previously expressed my concern about linebackers so like above, I’d make finding a transfer linebacker or two a priority. Especially if someone has an ounce of pass rushing ability.

That’s all I have off the top of my head.

Guys this may sound ridiculous, but hear me out. We are 5-2 with an SEC caliber QB this year. Not Peyton, just an SEC caliber QB. While I have not been thrilled with Friend for 3 years, AU was definitely the OL's best game in those same 3 years. I believe the offense comes down to 3 moves:
- JG & Kennedy out, replaced with Bailey & Carvin/Cooper
- Adjust the mindset to assume needing to score 35ppg
- Weinke & Friend get other jobs and are replaced with strong coaches & recruiters who fit with the rest of the staff (personally I would put T at QB, let Chaney and Fulmer handle OL (I know NCAA rules, there are work arounds) and go get a Kippy Browm caliber WR coach).

Defense is more confusing, so I will give Pruitt 4 moves:
- Drop the charade and help DA move on and Pruitt becomes the acting DC
- Help Shelton find another job & reassign Neids to ST and tell him his job is to become the next Frank Beamer, recruit his @$$ off and troll other teams on SM
- Use those 4 open positions to bring in LT, Tosh, Bo Davis and a veteran DB coach.
- Spend the off-season with three NFL clubs learning to rescheme the defense to eliminate our soft spot in the middle of the field without giving up the front or back end.

This is all predicated on the idea we will not replace Pruitt this year. IF, we somehow won 2 of 3 AND salvaged most of the recruiting class, THEN we out and did these things to prep for next year; at least we would have cut $5-6M off the buyout and improved our chances of a decent season next year. We won't know what Pruitt is until JG and some bad senior leadership is gone. We, and he, might be surprised at just how much of a difference that makes.

 

[BJWeeks]

If I were in JP’s shoes...I would probably look to the future. Shore up one of the best ‘22 classes the program has ever seen and make it extremely hard for the administration to get rid of me for fear of loosing such a talented group of players...

That will not happen. Elite players are jumping ship now. Not gonna magically change next year

 

[05_never_again]

I still don’t like him but would kill for him to be the HC right now

If McElwain didn't make up death threats, there's a really good chance Mullen is our coach right now. I don't know how good we'd be, but I bet you we'd have a good QB, whether it be JG or someone else.

 

[Volfanatic_20]

Okay okay okay....

Bear with me and let’s assume Pruitt isn’t replaced.

What would your priorities to fix this team? What assistants would you move around? What seniors would you try and talk into staying? Etc...


For me, in no particular order:

• I’d look to move on from Weinke. Ty Simpson recruitment be damned. I mean, it’s hard for me to be too critical of him because JG is a bag of ****, Bailey missed the entire offseason, and Mauer was suicidal so doubt he was focusing on his craft. But as bag a ****** as JG is, he’s regressed. Shrout never has improved, etc. I’d look at Tee Martin as the natural replacement. Him or Long.
• Id move Osovet to something other than TE coach. We’ve gotten nothing from the position all year, and it was fairly damning when Jacob Warren, during his media availability, pointed out how the tight ends had to teach Joe about the position. That ain’t good. Joe is a creative offensive mind and seems like a talented recruiter. He has a position on the staff - but Im not 100% sure what it is yet.
• Niedermeyer has a background in defense, and I hate to judge him too harshly, but I’m not sure he needs to be coaching ILB’s. HT has regressed this year and neither Banks nor Crouch have improved.
• I’d tell Len’Neth Whitehead that yeah, I know you want to play RB, but his path to the field is at LB. There was a lot of talk during his recruitment that his best position was LB. With Gray, Dee, Smalls, Hodge, and the incoming freshman - we have a log jam at running back. Meanwhile, outside of HT- we have nothing proven at LB. Some players have flashed, like Joseph, but for my money, LB is our biggest question mark going forward.
• I’d thank Brandon Kennedy and most of the seniors for their service. Maybe ask Fant, Solomon, and Palmer to come back.
• I’d tell Cooper Mays to spend the entire offseason working at center. And I’d sell Cade on the idea of playing side by side with his brother if he’s willing to return.
• Id do my best to bring Tosh or Bo Davis in as DL coach.
• Id scour the earth for a transfer quarterback. Darriel Mack, formerly of UCF, would be someone I would look closely at. Dual threat QB with a few years eligibility left. Played well against LSU a few years back. I’d encourage every QB not named Harrison Bailey or Kaiden Salter to “look around” this offseason.
• Previously expressed my concern about linebackers so like above, I’d make finding a transfer linebacker or two a priority. Especially if someone has an ounce of pass rushing ability.

That’s all I have off the top of my head.

1. Part ways with Weinke, Friend and possibly Chaney.
2. Bring in mutliple grad transfer Qb's
3. Tosh for DL coach.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Guys this may sound ridiculous, but hear me out. We are 5-2 with an SEC caliber QB this year. Not Peyton, just an SEC caliber QB. While I have not been thrilled with Friend for 3 years, AU was definitely the OL's best game in those same 3 years. I believe the offense comes down to 3 moves:
- JG & Kennedy out, replaced with Bailey & Carvin/Cooper
- Adjust the mindset to assume needing to score 35ppg
- Weinke & Friend get other jobs and are replaced with strong coaches & recruiters who fit with the rest of the staff (personally I would put T at QB, let Chaney and Fulmer handle OL (I know NCAA rules, there are work arounds) and go get a Kippy Browm caliber WR coach).

Defense is more confusing, so I will give Pruitt 4 moves:
- Drop the charade and help DA move on and Pruitt becomes the acting DC
- Help Shelton find another job & reassign Neids to ST and tell him his job is to become the next Frank Beamer, recruit his @$$ off and troll other teams on SM
- Use those 4 open positions to bring in LT, Tosh, Bo Davis and a veteran DB coach.
- Spend the off-season with three NFL clubs learning to rescheme the defense to eliminate our soft spot in the middle of the field without giving up the front or back end.

This is all predicated on the idea we will not replace Pruitt this year. IF, we somehow won 2 of 3 AND salvaged most of the recruiting class, THEN we out and did these things to prep for next year; at least we would have cut $5-6M off the buyout and improved our chances of a decent season next year. We won't know what Pruitt is until JG and some bad senior leadership is gone. We, and he, might be surprised at just how much of a difference that makes.

We aren't 5-2 with just better QB play. The defense has been straight garbage this year. The only game we kightve held on to imo is Arky

 

[BJWeeks]

I don’t have any reason to do damage control...I want what is best for our program as a whole...no matter who is running the ship

Whats best for thr program is hiring Hugh Freeze

 

["It's Time"]

Which makes no sense what atlvol has said

That’s because he hasn’t said anything of substance. He’s just said vague statements and everybody is running with it.

 

[vol9799]

We aren't 5-2 with just better QB play. The defense has been straight garbage this year. The only game we kightve held on to imo is Arky

Disagree. I was at the KY game. It was JG's gifted 17+ points that turned that game. Actually on at least one of those we were driving and would have scored so realistically 24 point swing plus the effort from the rest of the team changed decidedly after the second TO.

At AU, with the way we were running the ball, with a decent QB we score 30+ and the def problems don't matter in the outcome.

 

[Volfanatic_20]

That’s because he hasn’t said anything of substance. He’s just said vague statements and everybody is running with it.

He was pretty clear saying if he was Pruitt he would go out and sign the best '22 class he can. Impossible to do this when you are still not winning going into year 4.

 

[31VFL]

Wes Rucker said on the 247 Podcast that Florida is 127 out of 127 D1 teams in punts per game. They are punting less than twice a game this season.

 

[05_never_again]

The thing for me with Sark is he has had success outside of Bama. He was 34-29 at Washington and set Petersen up for success there before his run. He was also off to a 12-6 start before his drinking problem got him canned at USC. I would consider him because he's had success outside of Bama. Guys who have only had success at Bama are the issue.

I wasn't impressed at all with what Sark did at Washington. That's a pretty good job with some historical success and you can win there, but he was the definition of "meh." Sark got the USC job because of his previous connections there, not because he demonstrated some great coaching ability at a previous job.