WRs don't get any separation

#78
#78
k-town_king said:
He only did that about 5 or 6 times Sat on long potential tds. Nah can't do it at all.
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How many pass attempts. 24 pass attempts so you are stating he only lead the receiver about 25% of the time. Good Qb’s would be at 75% plus. You failed again in your defense of JG. I would suggest to quit while you are behind but you are not intelligent enough to do it. At least PulaskiVol is smart enough to stop defending JG.
 
#79
#79
EODVOL said:
Also, how many times did you witness Joe Burrow slide in the pocket to buy his receivers time to get open? A big difference in QB play. Are you saying Calloway and JJ were subpar receivers, imagine if Burrow were throwing to them?
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Agree on Burrow. Yes JJ and MC were not very good. Their NFL draft proved that. JJ and MC would not have started at LSU. I liked them both but they were average at best. We like to think they were better then they actually were because they played here.

Our offense would have been different if JG had been throwing to Chase, Jefferson and Moss. Would JG had Burrows stats! Lord no. But I believe he would have looked better.
 
#81
#81
BigOrangeTrain said:
You are right they don’t always get separation but the really good ones do more often than not. Take LSU last year. I remember seeing highlights where Chase and Jefferson were making DBs look dumb. Bama and UGA WRs blow by DBs. Yes the QB had to throw them open as well. But really good WRs get separation on a consistent basis.
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Burrow famously said that he considered a receiver open if the DB's back was turned.

You are trying to excuse the inexcusable. Why?
 
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#82
#82
Five years in and if you are still out there defending JG's quarterback play then there is no hope for you. This guy has hurt UT's offense tremendously since he took the first snap. His win/loss record confirms his lack of talent or ability to run an offense. If you don't like that stat then look at the offense rating in the SEC and college football since he has been the starter. It's pathetic.
 
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#84
#84
swampfoxfan said:
OK I will type real slow so maybe you and sjt18 can understand. If a receiver jukes a DB and gets say 3 yards separation , that gap will not close unless A--the receiver is very slow or B the DB is very fast.
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Good grief. You need to watch more football and learn to understand DB coverage techniques. Real slow... so maybe you can understand... a DB will position himself where he can react to the cut a WR makes. He gives cushion then when he sees the WR slow to make a break on an out... plants and drives. The DB loses less momentum and can gain speed faster out of his drop than a WR can out of his cut. The separation available on the that pattern is almost completely dependent on the QB's timing once the WR forces the DB to start his drop.

Similar factors play into separation on other plays. Not the "same"... but some of us can "slowly" explain it to you if you need it.
Please let your slow mind realize the QB has nothing to do with A or B. Peyton Manning can not make anybody run faster. Or a shorter response is BS
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No.. Manning threw on time and on target so that he hit the receiver when they had separation rather than after the DB had time to close. He also knew how to recognize when a receiver had position or angle on a DB and then how to throw that receiver open. Burrow excelled at that last year. The only "slow mind" here is yours. You are trying to excuse a QB of the things he's responsible for by blaming other players.
 
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#85
#85
sjt18 said:
Burrow famously said that he considered a receiver open if the DB's back was turned.

You are trying to excuse the inexcusable. Why?
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Wrong. I am saying i saw many times last season when Chase, Jefferson and Moss got plenty of separation. I also saw where Burrow threw them open a ton. You and some others continue to to have this erroneous assumption that a WR has almost no bearing on the passing game. And you continue to show ignorance every time you do so.

You have shown the inability to place blame on anyone besides the QB. That shows your bias. JG is not good and neither are our WRs. JJ and MC were not that good. They were average. We havent had stud WRs or a stud QB in a long timer.
 
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#87
#87
JG is the killer of all receiver greatness. The separation he needs to complete a pass is 10 times greater than most competent QBs.
 
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#88
#88
BigOrangeTrain said:
Wrong. I am saying i saw many times last season when Chase, Jefferson and Moss got plenty of separation. I also saw where Burrow threw them open a ton. You and some others continue to to have this erroneous assumption that a WR has almost no bearing on the passing game. And you continue to show ignorance every time you do so.
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Wrong. I have repeatedly said that UT's receivers are young and have their own problems. But their growth or even their ability to be challenged is capped by JG's deficiencies. You can't learn to be good at running timing routes if your QB is late on almost all timing routes.

JG's limitations are the limitations of the O right now. If he were playing like a RS Sr 3 year starter SHOULD play... then UT's limitations might be route running or getting off press coverage or something else receiver related. But they aren't the reason he's so frequently late with throws and fails to anticipate. He did that before any of these guys showed up.

You have shown the inability to place blame on anyone besides the QB. That shows your bias. JG is not good and neither are our WRs. JJ and MC were not that good. They were average. We havent had stud WRs or a stud QB in a long timer.
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LOL... you just showed your bias. There wasn't a team in the SEC that wouldn't have taken either of those guys. Without JJ's YACs... JG would have looked even WORSE.

The WR's are limited by JG. If he's replaced by someone who can throw on time and target... who can anticipate throws.... who knows how to read quickly and take good risks.... then we can talk about the WR's all you like. When UT has a QB who can burn D's for blitzing and can hit the deep middle to keep them honest then we can talk about how bad those talented 5* OL's suck. But as long as the playbook is shrunk by JG's liabilities... he's the problem that has to be solved first.
 
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#89
#89
sjt18 said:
Good grief. You need to watch more football and learn to understand DB coverage techniques. Real slow... so maybe you can understand... a DB will position himself where he can react to the cut a WR makes. He gives cushion then when he sees the WR slow to make a break on an out... plants and drives. The DB loses less momentum and can gain speed faster out of his drop than a WR can out of his cut. The separation available on the that pattern is almost completely dependent on the QB's timing once the WR forces the DB to start his drop.

Similar factors play into separation on other plays. Not the "same"... but some of us can "slowly" explain it to you if you need it.

No.. Manning threw on time and on target so that he hit the receiver when they had separation rather than after the DB had time to close. He also knew how to recognize when a receiver had position or angle on a DB and then how to throw that receiver open. Burrow excelled at that last year. The only "slow mind" here is yours. You are trying to excuse a QB of the things he's responsible for by blaming other players.
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I completely agree with you here. A good QB knows his receivers, the DBs tendencies and position against the route being run. If the receiver/DB position is favorable as the route develops he anticipates the throw and puts it on a spot. If he doesn’t like the set up you move to 2, 3 then outlet. Mind you this is all happening in 2-3 seconds.

This doesn’t even touch on eye awareness and freezing safeties/LBs etc.

JG has flashes of this but doesn’t consistently do any of this well. Feels like there is little anticipation and it goes from option one to outlet recover. Haven’t watched film to believe I’m right but certainly feels that way.
 
#90
#90
sjt18 said:
Wrong. I have repeatedly said that UT's receivers are young and have their own problems. But their growth or even their ability to be challenged is capped by JG's deficiencies. You can't learn to be good at running timing routes if your QB is late on almost all timing routes.

JG's limitations are the limitations of the O right now. If he were playing like a RS Sr 3 year starter SHOULD play... then UT's limitations might be route running or getting off press coverage or something else receiver related. But they aren't the reason he's so frequently late with throws and fails to anticipate. He did that before any of these guys showed up.


LOL... you just showed your bias. There wasn't a team in the SEC that wouldn't have taken either of those guys. Without JJ's YACs... JG would have looked even WORSE.

The WR's are limited by JG. If he's replaced by someone who can throw on time and target... who can anticipate throws.... who knows how to read quickly and take good risks.... then we can talk about the WR's all you like. When UT has a QB who can burn D's for blitzing and can hit the deep middle to keep them honest then we can talk about how bad those talented 5* OL's suck. But as long as the playbook is shrunk by JG's liabilities... he's the problem that has to be solved first.
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Dude whatever JJ and MC were not that good. They wouldnt have started on any of the elite SEC teams. They may have started on Vandy and the cellar dwellers. Thats about it. Like I said, their draft proved that. JG is not very good but neither are our WRs. Its as simple as that.
 
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#91
#91
I realize it’s Bama but just look at their WRs. Smith just juked that defender out of his shoes. I have watched Bamas WRs get separation throughout this game and they have been doing it all year. What you are seeing in their WR corps is so Meyer just don’t have. Jones is playing unbelievable no doubt. But his WRs are making his job easier. This is what good WRs look like.
 
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#92
#92
BigOrangeTrain said:
We haven’t had WRs that can get separation on a consistent basis since Hunter. I mean when was the last time we had a WR that can just blow by DBs? Some want to lay all the blame on JG. That’s convenient BS. He definitely deserves plenty of blame but WRs have done little to help.
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Yeah, that’s a blast from the past! Hunter, Patterson and Bray...with Cheney calling plays, I just don’t see anything like that yet with this group, outside of RB.

I agree though, plenty of blame to go around.
 
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#93
#93
BigOrangeTrain said:
Dude whatever JJ and MC were not that good. They wouldnt have started on any of the elite SEC teams. They may have started on Vandy and the cellar dwellers. Thats about it. Like I said, their draft proved that. JG is not very good but neither are our WRs. Its as simple as that.
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Yeah. Because guys that suck get drafted all the time and EVERYONE has two NFL Sr receivers to throw to. Do you not realize the ridiculous lengths you're going to to defend a bad QB?
 
#94
#94
sjt18 said:
Good grief. You need to watch more football and learn to understand DB coverage techniques. Real slow... so maybe you can understand... a DB will position himself where he can react to the cut a WR makes. He gives cushion then when he sees the WR slow to make a break on an out... plants and drives. The DB loses less momentum and can gain speed faster out of his drop than a WR can out of his cut. The separation available on the that pattern is almost completely dependent on the QB's timing once the WR forces the DB to start his drop.

Similar factors play into separation on other plays. Not the "same"... but some of us can "slowly" explain it to you if you need it.

No.. Manning threw on time and on target so that he hit the receiver when they had separation rather than after the DB had time to close. He also knew how to recognize when a receiver had position or angle on a DB and then how to throw that receiver open. Burrow excelled at that last year. The only "slow mind" here is yours. You are trying to excuse a QB of the things he's responsible for by blaming other players.
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Typing slow didn't help you.
 
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#95
#95
sjt18 said:
Yeah. Because guys that suck get drafted all the time and EVERYONE has two NFL Sr receivers to throw to. Do you not realize the ridiculous lengths you're going to to defend a bad QB?
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Never said the suck. They just weren’t that good. JJ had a horrible combine and was barely drafted and I believe is on the practice squad now. MC went undrafted. But yeah I guess they were real good.

I am not defending anyone. JG is bad. But our WR corps have not been very good either. Like I said watch Bamas WRs. They just blow by DBs. They even did it against UGA. That’s what really good WRs do.
 
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#96
#96
WR is not an issue at all for the Vols. the issues are
1. You can run a physical brand of offense w/o a TE and a big back for short yardage.
2.JG throws a nice deep ball and then he checks down. A QB who has ability to destroy a D between #'s.
 
#97
#97
BigOrangeTrain said:
Never said the suck. They just weren’t that good. JJ had a horrible combine and was barely drafted and I believe is on the practice squad now. MC went undrafted. But yeah I guess they were real good.
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MC is playing as a rookie and having some success. Do you know how few out of total WR's in CFB get drafted?

I am not defending anyone. JG is bad. But our WR corps have not been very good either. Like I said watch Bamas WRs. They just blow by DBs. They even did it against UGA. That’s what really good WRs do.
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And you're making that judgment and comparison while completely negating the role of the QB. Jones is throwing on time and on target. JG is not. Until the WR's have a shot to run under a ball on a deep post rather than having to slow up and fight DB's for it... you can't make an objective statement that they are or are not good.

This isn't a new problem with JG. If it were then I'd be more inclined to think it was the WR's. But he's consistently failed to throw on time and on target over his career and especially down the deep middle and "full speed" patterns like slants, skinny posts, etc.
 
#100
#100
sjt18 said:
MC is playing as a rookie and having some success. Do you know how few out of total WR's in CFB get drafted?


And you're making that judgment and comparison while completely negating the role of the QB. Jones is throwing on time and on target. JG is not. Until the WR's have a shot to run under a ball on a deep post rather than having to slow up and fight DB's for it... you can't make an objective statement that they are or are not good.

This isn't a new problem with JG. If it were then I'd be more inclined to think it was the WR's. But he's consistently failed to throw on time and on target over his career and especially down the deep middle and "full speed" patterns like slants, skinny posts, etc.
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No he isnt having success. And he is playing with a top 5 QB of all time. You just will not blame anyone else besides the Qb when it comes to the passing game and you just cannot see how wrong you are. Please continue to think a successful passing game is only based on the QB. You look utterly ridiculous in doing so.
 
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