I admit it. I don’t like having Missouri in the SEC

#151
#151
sjt18 said:
I'm not trying to bash you but it is amazing how folks with no direct experience with ACC fans think schools like NCSU, UNC, Clemson, or Virginia would leave. Any of those schools leaving the ACC would be akin to Bama, Auburn, UGA, or LSU leaving the SEC.

Appalachian St is probably the best football school on a consistent basis in NC. But they don't offer much else right now. OTOH, they would gain a huge advantage in all sports if they were in a P-5 conference.

Va Tech, Miami, and WVU do not have strong conference histories or ties. UF will fight to keep other Florida schools out due to recruiting. I think VT and WVU make good targets to expand to 16.



On a sidenote:

IMO, the top 64 teams should form a new class of 4 conferences with 16 teams and two divisions each. Each division would produce a contender for the conference championship game followed by a 4 team playoff to produce a national champion on the field.

To preserve rivalries, conferences would have to change alignments. Any historic rivalry game that could not be made a conference game could still be one a team's 5 OOC games. Programs would no longer be punished for taking quality OOC opponents or for slow season starts.
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Out of the 4 acc teams you listed the one school that I think would maybe consider would be State, that’s NC State to the people not from the Raleigh Durham area. There are several reasons I think they would consider it. The first being is that it would allow them to get out from the shadow that is Duke and UNC and be a part of something bigger and better, at least football wise . It would give them a competitive advantage in football recruiting and they hemorrhaging in-State recruits to SEC schools and now UNC w/ Mack Brown. The other reason and this being the most important:
NC STATE FANS HATE UNC MORE THAN THEY LOVE THEIR OWN TEAM.
If moving to the SEC could screw Carolina six ways from Sunday they would sign up.
State would be a bottom dweller in the SEC for sure, but their fans would fit in culturally and it would make sense from a Tv footprint standpoint . Legally, I don’t think it could work, but you never know. I certainly wouldn’t expect it.
I do agree with what you said about VT and West Virginia. I think both would be great to have in the SEC, with VT being the most natural fit.
 
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#152
#152
EODVOL said:
I agree with your comment about poaching those ACC schools in NC hence part of the reason that I feel FSU and Miami would be easier to attract. Though they have decent B-ball programs their football program is what they hang their hat on. I am not sure why the SEC would look at Houston, a great market, the talent, and its proximity to LSU. Conference ties are only as good as the money i.e. Nebraska going to the big 10.
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Houston isn't far from TAM. I think the SEC could afford another Texas school... but my choice wouldn't be Houston. I'd go after a bigger fish. It will get interesting if the Big 12 can't hold it together. Texas and OU could be on the market though Texas seems to have more ties to the West than East.

I think FSU would make a great addition but you look at the map... and now you have Auburn, LSU, UF, and UGA screaming "no way". I just can't see Miami as a "fit" culturally... but I don't think there would be objections from anyone but UF. They kind of have their own talent pool in south FL so that might work.
 
#154
#154
I don’t mind them being in the SEC. They should be in the West though. When the league expanded it wasn’t to add teams but to add media markets. I really haven’t seen a suggestion that improves on what Mizzou and A&M bring in.
 
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#155
#155
sjt18 said:
Columbia, MO is 300 miles closer to Knoxville than College Station and 100 miles closer than Fayetteville Arkansas. It is 50 miles closer than Baton Rouge. It is about 60 miles further than Gainesville, FL.

Whether they are "relevant" enough comes down to how you define relevant. They do bring the STL and KC media markets to the SEC along with the smaller regional markets across MO.
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What does Columbia's distance to Knoxville in comparison to other SEC schools have to do with the fact Mizzu is not in the Southeast by any stretch of the imagination?

As for relevancy KC and StL are pro towns and don't pay much attention to Mizzu.
 
#156
#156
RDU VOL#14 said:
Out of the 4 acc teams you listed the one school that I think would maybe consider would be State, that’s NC State to the people not from the Raleigh Durham area. There are several reasons I think they would consider it. The first being is that it would allow them to get out from the shadow that is Duke and UNC and be a part of something bigger and better, at least football wise . It would give them a competitive advantage in football recruiting and they hemorrhaging in-State recruits to SEC schools and now UNC w/ Mack Brown. The other reason and this being the most important:
NC STATE FANS HATE UNC MORE THAN THEY LOVE THEIR OWN TEAM.
If moving to the SEC could screw Carolina six ways from Sunday they would sign up.
State would be a bottom dweller in the SEC for sure, but their fans would fit in culturally and it would make sense from a Tv footprint standpoint . Legally, I don’t think it could work, but you never know. I certainly wouldn’t expect it.
I do agree with what you said about VT and West Virginia. I think both would be great to have in the SEC, with VT being the most natural fit.
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They have more reasons but I don't think most State fans would admit being in the shadow of UNC or Duke from a historical standpoint. Much like UT previously, State's AD has sucked badly. They've made worse hires and have been unwilling to pony up when they found a good one.

OTOH, all 4 of the ACC schools in NC see themselves as basketball first. NCSU supporters are unlikely to "fix" football until they start competing in bb again. I went to State for a year and a half years ago. Students got in free at the time... and it wasn't a "thing to do". Students camped out for days to get bb tickets. Carter-Finley being off campus detracts from the gameday experience even more.
 
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#158
#158
sjt18 said:
I'm not trying to bash you but it is amazing how folks with no direct experience with ACC fans think schools like NCSU, UNC, Clemson, or Virginia would leave. Any of those schools leaving the ACC would be akin to Bama, Auburn, UGA, or LSU leaving the SEC.

Appalachian St is probably the best football school on a consistent basis in NC. But they don't offer much else right now. OTOH, they would gain a huge advantage in all sports if they were in a P-5 conference.

Va Tech, Miami, and WVU do not have strong conference histories or ties. UF will fight to keep other Florida schools out due to recruiting. I think VT and WVU make good targets to expand to 16.
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SJT, I have TONS of experience with the teams, fans, and culture in North Carolina and Virginia. I've lived in those two states for just about 16 years of my life, spread out over 8 different tours of duty between 1982 and 2008. My wife was a UNC grad student for the first year we were married. And I applied to Duke for a graduate program (ended up going to Indiana, but that's a different tale). My office mate and partner in crime for two years while I was stationed at Fort Monroe was the biggest Virginia Tech hokie fan you could meet. And on and on.

So sure, I have tons of exposure to, and experience with the North Carolina and Virginia schools and their fan bases. Well, not so much UVa. But the other 5, absolutely I know well.

Yeah. I think you missed the target assuming you knew something about my background with these fan bases and schools. :)

Now: getting the North Carolina schools out of the ACC would be just as hard as you say. They are to the ACC what the 4 Texas schools are to the B12: kind of the central core around which the rest are built.

But then, I didn't suggest we try to take them out.

Va Tech, though? Under the right conditions, they'd leave. They're not nearly as bound to their in-state brother (UVa) as the NC schools. More like how we feel about Vandy, I'd say. And Va Tech isn't particularly bound to the ACC. Hardly at all, in fact. They only joined that conference in 2004, more than a decade after Arkansas joined the SEC. Before that, they were in the Big East.

Yeah, they'd leave for the SEC if the opportunity were given, I think.
 
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#159
#159
EODVOL said:
JMO, I would pass on VA Tech. League has to think about the market, revenue stream, and television contracts as well. I think FSU would be a good fit and or possibly Miami. I wouldn't rule out Houston either just because of the Market and closeness to Louisiana. I can see LSU and Houston developing a Rivalry, especially in recruiting.
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Lots of VT fans in the northern VA and tidewater areas.
 
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#160
#160
hog88 said:
What does Columbia's distance to Knoxville in comparison to other SEC schools have to do with the fact Mizzu is not in the Southeast by any stretch of the imagination?
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It was implied as part of the reason they do not "belong". If they do not "belong" it has nothing to do with them being "yankees" or outside the SEC's regional span.

As for relevancy KC and StL are pro towns and don't pay much attention to Mizzu.
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I live in MO. My son graduated from Mizzou. Much like UT, their attendance falls off when the team is bad. Their recent coaching change was specifically because attendance had fallen. Their stadium is about the size of Ole Miss and larger than MSU, UK, and Vandy.

STL no longer has a pro football team and struggled to support the Rams even when they were there and playing well. The Chiefs have a pretty devoted fan base but I cannot tell that it hurts Mizzou.
 
#163
#163
sjt18 said:
It was implied as part of the reason they do not "belong". If they do not "belong" it has nothing to do with them being "yankees" or outside the SEC's regional span.


I live in MO. My son graduated from Mizzou. Much like UT, their attendance falls off when the team is bad. Their recent coaching change was specifically because attendance had fallen. Their stadium is about the size of Ole Miss and larger than MSU, UK, and Vandy.

STL no longer has a pro football team and struggled to support the Rams even when they were there and playing well. The Chiefs have a pretty devoted fan base but I cannot tell that it hurts Mizzou.
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I have several clients around MO and there is hardly ever a mention of Mizzu or college football period. It's NFL, Hockey and baseball so that is where I get the impression.
 
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#164
#164
VFL-82-JP said:
SJT, I have TONS of experience with the teams, fans, and culture in North Carolina and Virginia. I've lived in those two states for just about 16 years of my life, spread out over 8 different tours of duty between 1982 and 2008.* My wife was a UNC grad student for the first year we were married. And I applied to Duke for a graduate program (ended up going to Indiana, but that's a different tale). My office mate for two years while I was stationed at Fort Monroe was the biggest Virginia Tech hokie fan you could meet. And on and on.

So sure, I have tons of exposure to, and experience with the North Carolina and Virginia schools and their fan bases. Well, not so much UVa. But the other 5, absolutely I know well.

Yeah. I think you missed the target assuming you knew something about my background with these fan bases and schools. :)

Now: getting the North Carolina schools out of the ACC would be just as hard as you say. They are to the ACC what the 4 Texas schools are to the B12: kind of the central core around which the rest are built.

But then, I didn't suggest we try to take them out.

Va Tech, though? Under the right conditions, they'd leave. They're not nearly as bound to their in-state brother (UVa) as the NC schools. More like how we feel about Vandy, I'd say. And Va Tech isn't particularly bound to the ACC. Hardly at all, in fact. They only joined that conference in 2004, more than a decade after Arkansas joined the SEC. Before that, they were in the Big East.

Yeah, they'd leave for the SEC if the opportunity were given, I think.


*Time in ACC Land:
1982 -- Engineer officer basic course, Alexandria Virginia (6 months)
1986 -- Engineer officer advanced course, Alexandria, Virginia (3 months)
1986-1989 -- Fort Bragg (Fayetteville), North Carolina (3 yrs)
1992-1994 -- Fort Monroe (Newport News / Hampton / Tidewater area), Virginia (2 yrs)
1995-1997 -- Fort Bragg, NC (2 yrs)
1997-1999 -- Springfield, Virginia while assigned to Pentagon / State Department (2 years)
1999-2002 -- Fort Bragg, NC (3 yrs)
2005-2008 -- Wilmington, NC (3 yrs)
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Sorry I misjudged you but I honestly was not trying to offend you. I grew up in NC as an ABC fan (Anyone But Carolina). I'm dating myself but I was actually a student at NCSU when Valvano's team won the NC.

That said, I think the ACC would have to break up completely before you budged UNC, Duke, WFU, NCSU, Clemson, or Virginia. It just doesn't make much sense to discuss them as potentials as compared to any other school.

VT was an independent for a long time prior to joining the Big East. In every respect, I think they would make a great addition to the SEC and would probably settle in. But as a UT fan... I'm not sure I want a school that geographically close. UT doesn't recruit VA as much as they used to... but some really good players have come out of VA.
 
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#165
#165
hog88 said:
I have several clients around MO and there is hardly ever a mention of Mizzu or college football period. It's NFL, Hockey and baseball so that is where I get the impression.
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OK. I live here. I would say that Mizzou's support is much stronger in the rural areas than STL or KC. A lot of people in the Ag industry are alums.
 
#168
#168
I think the pre 1992 conference alignment was perfect and allowed for a great playoff scanario where winning your league would get you in. Never mind how many losses you have....Just win your league and you get in. But tv money got in the way.
 
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#169
#169
hog88 said:
Lots of VT fans in the northern VA and tidewater areas.
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I lived in Tidewater for a good minute. Trust me, not as many fans as one would think. It is mostly a military town, a very transient population, and they often root for the teams closer to their homes of record. I like VA Tech but just don't see them in the SEC. Don't get me wrong, I love that they are just down the road from TN, but if VA Tech could pull off being in the SEC, I think that it could pull recruits from our area, They could sell the SEC, which is what recruits like and they could sell the proximity of home locking up those VA athletes and those eastern TN, KY athletes. I mean, look at what Clemson has been able to do in Georgia, NC, and SC.
 
#171
#171
EODVOL said:
I lived in Tidewater for a good minute. Trust me, not as many fans as one would think. It is mostly a military town, a very transient population, and they often root for the teams closer to their homes of record. I like VA Tech but just don't see them in the SEC. Don't get me wrong, I love that they are just down the road from TN, but if VA Tech could pull off being in the SEC, I think that it could pull recruits from our area, They could sell the SEC, which is what recruits like and they could sell the proximity of home locking up those VA athletes and those eastern TN, KY athletes. I mean, look at what Clemson has been able to do in Georgia, NC, and SC.
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I grew up about 10 miles outside of Blacksburg and despise VT so I wouldn't want them in the SEC but I still think they would bring in a sizable TV market.
 
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#172
#172
EODVOL said:
I lived in Tidewater for a good minute. Trust me, not as many fans as one would think. It is mostly a military town, a very transient population, and they often root for the teams closer to their homes of record. I like VA Tech but just don't see them in the SEC. Don't get me wrong, I love that they are just down the road from TN, but if VA Tech could pull off being in the SEC, I think that it could pull recruits from our area, They could sell the SEC, which is what recruits like and they could sell the proximity of home locking up those VA athletes and those eastern TN, KY athletes. I mean, look at what Clemson has been able to do in Georgia, NC, and SC.
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I don't think we would lose anything competing with Va Tech for recruits. We'd gain from better access to their recruiting grounds, while they'd win little to nothing from us. Here's what I mean:

(1) Tidewater Virginia is rich with high school football talent, as I'm sure you know. Get Va Tech into the SEC, and doors open there for us. I mean, we already recruit there, but our exposure would just go up. There are more Va Tech fans in the Roanoke - Lynchburg - Richmond - Petersburg- Newport News - Hampton line than you might think. It's kind of different on the Norfolk side of the water, I agree with you, but up on the north side of the water, Va Tech is well represented. We could gain a lot recruiting there.

(2) Meanwhile, there's not much we have to fear even if Va Tech reaches its claws into eastern Tennessee. That's not where our recruiting strength lies. In-state, we get more from middle Tennessee. And out of state, we get a lot from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. Va Tech doesn't get any stronger in those states than they already are.

So, advantage Vols. We almost have nothing to lose from them joining. But could gain a lot from the southern belt of VA.
 
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#173
#173
Texas AM and Mizzu. Feels like OOC games to me. No juice. Not that excited for a win. Not nearly as down about a lose as compared to other SEC teams. Toss them out.
 
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#174
#174
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't think we would lose anything competing with Va Tech for recruits. We'd gain from better access to their recruiting grounds, while they'd win little to nothing from us. Here's what I mean:

(1) Tidewater Virginia is rich with high school football talent, as I'm sure you know. Get Va Tech into the SEC, and doors open there for us. I mean, we already recruit there, but our exposure would just go up. There are more Va Tech fans in the Roanoke - Richmond - Hampton - Newport News line than you might think. It's kind of different on the Norfolk side of the water, I agree with you, but up on the north side of the water, Va Tech is well represented. We could gain a lot recruiting there.

(2) Meanwhile, there's not much we have to fear even if Va Tech reaches its claws into eastern Tennessee. That's not where our recruiting strength lies. In-state, we get more from middle Tennessee. And out of state, we get a lot from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. Va Tech doesn't get any stronger in those states than they already are.

So, advantage Vols. We almost have nothing to lose from them joining. But could gain a lot from the southern belt of VA.
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I do see your points, but I think it still could swing either way in recruiting VA talent. The SEC gives VA Tech some clout. It does open more doors to recruiting but sometimes in recruiting, it can be tribal. I mean honestly, there are some students who prefer to play for their home state. I mean Mays has come back home lol. I think if we are trying to stay somewhat regional, then WVU would be the wat to go, gets us near Big Ten Country.
 
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