Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

[volfanbill]

I hate it when I don't understand something and seem to be the only one that doesn't. Derp. I'm blaming 45 years of alcohol abuse and old age.

The last sentence "almost pretending they don't exist" is where I'm confused.

Just that I didn’t learn about the extra books until I was in college, minoring in Bible and took a whole bunch of classes. I’ve never heard about the Apocrypha in Sunday School or in sermons. I don’t know many people that even know they are a thing

 

[Behr]

Just that I didn’t learn about the extra books until I was in college, minoring in Bible and took a whole bunch of classes. I’ve never heard about the Apocrypha in Sunday School or in sermons. I don’t know many people that even know they are a thing

Lulz, I guess I'm a idoit because the 2 sentences together don't make sense to me. Sorry, I just don't want to misunderstand on this even if it means me looking stupid. Is this correct?

You don't really agree with Revelations being in the Bible, but you're fine with all the others being included.

 

[volfanbill]

Lulz, I guess I'm a idoit because the 2 sentences together don't make sense to me. Sorry, I just don't want to misunderstand on this even if it means me looking stupid. Is this correct?

You don't really agree with Revelations being in the Bible, but you're fine with all the others being included.

I don’t understand why the Revelation of “John” (there is no real evidence tying this work to John the Apostle) was included in the traditional NT, but all the other Revelation/Apocalypse books weren’t included in the traditional NT.

 

[Behr]

And as far as the second sentence, yea I kinda remember I had heard something about something about oh bad don't read...whatever when I was young, but nothing else until a few months ago from a guy at church and then Slice not long afterwards. Got curious and here I be.

 

[Behr]

I don’t understand why the Revelation of “John” (there is no real evidence tying this work to John the Apostle) was included in the traditional NT, but all the other Revelation/Apocalypse books weren’t included in the traditional NT.

See, I am a idoit.

I've only read the 2 so I can't comment the others yet, but I understand why.

 

[Behr]

I question the addition of the accepted Revelations but not any of the others. Almost pretending they don’t exist.

In my defense, this was in response to Slice talking about him not agreeing that Hebrews was included. I get it now, but Slice and I disagree on Hebrews and we've had a pretty big discussion on it, so my mind was concentrating on that. You zigged while I zagged.

Anyway, thanks for being patient.

 

[volfanbill]

See, I am a idoit.

I've only read the 2 so I can't comment the others yet, but I understand why.

No, you just read them differently than I do. Doesn’t make anyone an idiot. In my Church History class, we learned a lot about what made the books of the Bible canonical. There are a lot of books in the Protestant Bible that don’t fit all the molds. Revelations is a great example. While written by “John”, there is very little that suggests who John is. Certainly nothing ties him to John the Apostle, and the writing style is vastly different. Several scholars and theologians say the same for Paul’s Apocalypse (meaning it reads differently than Paul’s other works). A number of the Epistles can’t be authenticated either. And it should be noted that Protestants (of which I consider myself a non denominational Protestant) were debating the official books until the 16th century with Martin Luther.
As I mentioned earlier, I consider the Bible to be fallible. While I agree with Slice that some books, especially the original Torah (Pentateuch) had great care to make sure they were translated properly, many subsequent translations have made alterations to the original writings, sometimes on purpose. On top of that, I can’t in good faith believe humans were capable of even writing it down 100% correctly. The small differences in the gospels for one. (By the way, there are a few other gospels out there too, but you probably know that). I’m not a Biblical scholar by any stretch of the imagination. I enjoyed minoring in Bible in college and I’ve enjoyed learning the history of the books and what else has been written. I could be (and likely am) way off in how I see it.

Edit: I fat fingered Martin Luther’s timeline. His work was early 1500s (16th century, not 17th century as I posted originally). Also tried to clarify a few points.

 

[volfanbill]

I don’t know which books of any I’d take out of the Protestant Bible and which I would add, if any. I’m not as knowledgeable of the OT Apocrypha books, but I remember reading some weird extensions and other pieces with Daniel. I remember some out there parts talking about a younger Jesus too. I just wish all these books were discussed and taught more.

 

[Behr]

You, Slice and 445 seem to look at all of this pretty much the same, at least from what I'm understanding. I look at it alot differently. It makes it difficult to discuss sometimes, for me that is. It's not like I think anyone is more right or more wrong than anyone else, it's just a different mindset.

 

[volfanbill]

I now want to re read the whole NT and then dive back into these books you’re looking into (many of them again, but I’m sure I’ll learn lots of new stuff likely have a much different view than I did 18 years ago). After that, I might dive into the OT side.

 

[rocytop2624]

I have only read the 2, so far. After many days and emails reaching out, I found two different books that had what I was looking for. There's several more I want to read I'll tell you about if you want.

The apocalypse of Paul was the one I read first. It had a profound effect on me. I cried and was more scared than I've ever been. It has changed me in some ways.

I don't think it should be included in the Bible and I'm glad it's not. Not because of the reasons you probably think.

I've struggled here for 10 minutes trying to figure out how to say it and can't. I think everyone should read the Bible as soon as they're old enough to read it. I think if you don't have a basic understanding of the Bible, you have no business reading this.

Can you explain?

 

[Orangeslice13]

You, Slice and 445 seem to look at all of this pretty much the same, at least from what I'm understanding. I look at it alot differently. It makes it difficult to discuss sometimes, for me that is. It's not like I think anyone is more right or more wrong than anyone else, it's just a different mindset.

It makes for good conversation and study when you’re among people respectful of one another. It also helps when those people don’t have to be “right” and are ok if others have a different opinion

 

[Behr]

It makes for good conversation and study when you’re among people respectful of one another. It also helps when those people don’t have to be “right” and are ok if others have a different opinion

You never crossed that line, but I felt like you did get right up on it and thumped my nose last time we were here. Lulz, whether it was intentional or not Im a little better minded now.

To move on, I just got a text from Amazon saying my book will be here tomorrow. That's 3 days earlier than the "earliest" date. I just ordered it yesterday about 3.

 

[Behr]

Can you explain?

Not really.

 

[Behr]

I now want to re read the whole NT and then dive back into these books you’re looking into (many of them again, but I’m sure I’ll learn lots of new stuff likely have a much different view than I did 18 years ago). After that, I might dive into the OT side.

I like the OT, Job is my favorite book of the Bible with Hebrews close just recently. I remember a guy that taught Bible study during a revival a few years ago, he taught a week on Job. One night he talked a little about how all of it affected his wife. Was interesting.

 

[DancingOutlaw]

WW2 receiver with a post war barrel is ok. I would like to believe it had the possibility of having killed Nazis. I’m going to shoot the hell out of it so I’m not looking for great condition. Patina in my mind is a plus. I passed on one the other day that was a couple years too new. It was 700$. I’d like to stay in that range if possible.

Have you considered taking a trip to the CMP South Store? It's in Anniston, right at 2 hours from here. You could pick your own rifle out from the racks, if you've got a kid that's of age to be interested they would love it. Right now you can get a get a Springfield Field Grade for $715 otd. They are also putting out 1903 rifles right now and I think once this batch is gone they will be gone for good.

 

[volfanbill]

I like the OT, Job is my favorite book of the Bible with Hebrews close just recently. I remember a guy that taught Bible study during a revival a few years ago, he taught a week on Job. One night he talked a little about how all of it affected his wife. Was interesting.

My favorite OT book is probably Ruth, but I love the Pauline Epistles. Personally I like the letters to Corinthians the most, but I’m quite fond of Ephesians as well (which has been debated about being authentically from Paul). My Christian beliefs are centered around 1 Corinthians 13. Love is the most important aspect of Christianity (aside from believing in Christ as your Savior obviously) in my completely unprofessional but perhaps slightly educated opinion.

 

[Behr]

My favorite OT book is probably Ruth, but I love the Pauline Epistles. Personally I like the letters to Corinthians the most, but I’m quite fond of Ephesians as well (which has been debated about being authentically from Paul). My Christian beliefs are centered around 1 Corinthians 13. Love is the most important aspect of Christianity (aside from believing in Christ as your Savior obviously) in my completely unprofessional but perhaps slightly educated opinion.

Yea I like Ruth too. Lotta good in that book.

And obviously I agree about love.

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Orangeslice13]

You never crossed that line, but I felt like you did get right up on it and thumped my nose last time we were here. Lulz, whether it was intentional or not Im a little better minded now.

To move on, I just got a text from Amazon saying my book will be here tomorrow. That's 3 days earlier than the "earliest" date. I just ordered it yesterday about 3.

It really is easier to have those conversations in person. In text format can skew interpretation and intention. I preach all the time that we are going to be judged by ourselves so it doesn’t matter what I think of your beliefs and you mine. I really don’t want to be a hypocrite so I really try to guard myself against it.

it really is amazing that your books are getting here that fast. Everything I’ve ordered has been way behind because of the Covid

 

[Orangeslice13]

My favorite OT book is probably Ruth, but I love the Pauline Epistles. Personally I like the letters to Corinthians the most, but I’m quite fond of Ephesians as well (which has been debated about being authentically from Paul). My Christian beliefs are centered around 1 Corinthians 13. Love is the most important aspect of Christianity (aside from believing in Christ as your Savior obviously) in my completely unprofessional but perhaps slightly educated opinion.

Isiah is my favorite

 

[Orangeslice13]

Have you considered taking a trip to the CMP South Store? It's in Anniston, right at 2 hours from here. You could pick your own rifle out from the racks, if you've got a kid that's of age to be interested they would love it. Right now you can get a get a Springfield Field Grade for $715 otd. They are also putting out 1903 rifles right now and I think once this batch is gone they will be gone for good.

I’m going to try and find a time to check it out soon.

 

[volfanbill]

Isiah is my favorite

I could easily be swayed to Isiah

 

[Behr]

It really is easier to have those conversations in person. In text format can skew interpretation and intention. I preach all the time that we are going to be judged by ourselves so it doesn’t matter what I think of your beliefs and you mine. I really don’t want to be a hypocrite so I really try to guard myself against it.

it really is amazing that your books are getting here that fast. Everything I’ve ordered has been way behind because of the Covid

I realize how hard it is to talk about alot of serious things like this and end up deleting alot of stuff on a regular basis because of that. Not just here.

I know what you mean, but I think as a friend your beliefs matter enough for me to talk to you about them, it's just up to me to show enough respect and control to not say anything disrespectful about something I don't agree with.

I'm the same way about being hypocritical, just another reason I stayed out of these type of conversations for so long. I didn't realize how bad I was (language and stuff in the zone) until a few months ago. Good grief.

Im also always concerned about seeming grandiose or whatever that was that @volfanbill said about me. I always...even from back in the day, tried not to seem like an arrogant know it all, because I'm not and don't want to be thought of as that even on a message board. Words and humor in black and white is just like you said above.

Sorry about rambling. When you try to say something without being misunderstood, it takes more words. Lulz.

 

[volfanbill]

Just out of curiosity, what grandiose thing did I say about you @Behr ?

 

[joevol33]

Isiah is my favorite

Isaiah has always been almost like poetical to me. Weird I know, but just the way it was written or I read it.