Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#155,076
#155,076
Frankwillie87 said:
Ahhh yes, be grateful that you will have long lasting health effects for the rest of your life, your degree is worth less than even 10 years ago (seriously a college degree is worth as much as a high school diploma now), you won't be allowed to work or have a job to pay for anything, your time isn't your own even during times other students who get paid to work have off, and let's forget about the fact that you may not even want that degree in the first place, but there's no tryouts for the NFL until you go to college.

Just let them pay taxes and make what they want. These people have been paying to play football practically their entire lives, paying specialized coaches, paying for camps, traveling on their own dime, transferring into the right high schools for just the chance at a scholarship. It's not like Joe Bob down the street just showed up for tryouts one day and Pruitt had an extra scholarship ready to hand out. 100 years ago 20 year olds were making 5000 a year and supporting their wife and kids. You didn't make that 20 year old get a "free" apprenticeship for the 4 best years of his life, you paid him for the work he did.

Until people are willing to pay the market rate for true American services like football tickets, wages will always stay down. I'll pay double for football tickets because it's worth it to me, and I'll ask my job to pay me what I'm worth or go somewhere else.
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No one makes you play football. You get to choose to do so or not. With all the help now days, if you do a good job in the classroom, you can get a college education and not have to play football. You can still get into the workforce with just your HS diploma and work as a 20 year old and maybe that will work or maybe it will not.
 
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#155,077
#155,077
MarcoVol said:
As we discuss yesterday, I’m not opposed to your idea of having a league where they can get paid. Probably the easiest solution. But schools will start paying players quicker than a hiccup if players have an option to go play somewhere else.
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Maybe. Maybe all that money will dry up for both colleges and athletes. Maybe I won't care one way or the other.
 
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#155,079
#155,079
mr.checkerboards said:
Not worth my time arguing with you.
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It’s worth your time if you will consider his points. You are correct that’s it not if you don’t care. I actually believe both of you have some valid points. There is a middle ground.

I’m a believer that college athletes inherently gain value by playing without actual money in their pocket. I’m also ok with a higher stipend for them to get paid. But the players have to understand that facilities and other amenities will decline when that money isn’t there anymore. It would just be a re-allocation of money. Some of those demandsjust aren’t realistic- be careful what you ask for.
 
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#155,080
#155,080
VolGee4 said:
It’s worth your time if you will consider his points. You are correct that’s it not if you don’t care. I actually believe both of you have some valid points. There is a middle ground.

I’m a believer that college athletes inherently gain value by playing without actual money in their pocket. I’m also ok with a higher stipend for them to get paid. But the players have to understand that facilities and other amenities will decline when that money isn’t there anymore. It would just be a re-allocation of money. Some of those demandsjust aren’t realistic- be careful what you ask for.
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I say it's not worth my time because I went round and round with him the other day. At the end of the day we are just going to both be talking in circles, and neither one of us are going to change anything. Its not worth it.
 
#155,081
#155,081
mr.checkerboards said:
I say it's not worth my time because I went round and round with him the other day. At the end of the day we are just going to both be talking in circles, and neither one of us are going to change anything. Its not worth it.
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Like I said, if you can’t consider what each other says, then you are correct.

That’s part of the problem these days- people won’t concede points. There are two extremes.
 
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#155,082
#155,082
Fine, pay the players if you want to. Make them employees if you want.

At the end of the year send them a 1099 for the cost of their scholarship, room and board, books, food, gym, trainers, doctor services, etc. you know, the true value of what they receive each year.

Then raise the admission criteria to the same as every other student.
They better be careful what they ask for. They won’t like the end game
 
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#155,086
#155,086
Smokeytom said:
How much do they really think they are worth?!? There are 10s of 1000s of other high schoolers who would love to take their place.
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Hard to say. Someone should put some numbers to it. Would be interesting. I think it is hard to argue Butch, or many other coaches, are worth 4 or whatever million a year, while a guy like Kamara or Dobbs was worth a scholarship, far far less. Also hard to say the market value of a Tua or TL is far less than a benchwarmer in the NFL making hundreds of thousands at the league minimum.

Their 50% revenue is absolutely off the wall as it stands, but there is some reasonable answer probably and will differ greatly by school and markets.
 
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#155,087
#155,087
MarcoVol said:
As we discuss yesterday, I’m not opposed to your idea of having a league where they can get paid. Probably the easiest solution. But schools will start paying players quicker than a hiccup if players have an option to go play somewhere else.
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That's cool, as long as it is an option. You get paid while you pay in college (with minor league wages) or you can opt for a free scholarship ride. But not both. And only in football. No other college sport generates the income to play athletes.
 
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#155,092
#155,092
825VOL said:
Fine, pay the players if you want to. Make them employees if you want.

At the end of the year send them a 1099 for the cost of their scholarship, room and board, books, food, gym, trainers, doctor services, etc. you know, the true value of what they receive each year.

Then raise the admission criteria to the same as every other student.
They better be careful what they ask for. They won’t like the end game
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Employees aren't sent 1099s. Contractors are.

Besides, do you pay taxes on your employer's training, insurance benefits, and fringe benefits? Of course not. You pay taxes on the money going into your pocket. There are a few, but rare, fringe benefits for most employees that are taxed.

If employees had to pay taxes on their "true cost" to an employer, they would freaking revolt. Fringe benefits comprise about 30-40% of most employee costs...imagine getting a 60k salary and paying taxes on 100k.
 
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#155,093
#155,093
Redleg68 said:
I retired for about six months and almost went crazy. Went back to work for a while and positioned it into a part time gig where I can do 95% on line. That lets me be mobile. Have a plan to keep you mind and body busy, even if it is nothing but charity work. I firmly believe staying productive in some way will help you live longer.
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Oh, don't worry about me staying busy, at least as best I can. 45 years of type 1 diabetes, a recent total hip replacement and now dealing with an arthritic left knee joint hadn't kept me from working every day. And as far as charitable deeds go, it is a good thing to get involved even when you're a young adult, much less retirees etc being counted on for a lot. Some of my good memories are of working on events/fundraisers for such causes as Christmas for Kids, Camp Discovery for handicapped children and raising money to have a Veterans Memorial constructed on our county courthouse property. I was involved in all of these in my 20's and 30's and made many lifelong friends along the way.
 
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#155,094
#155,094
GiggerVol said:
Oh, don't worry about me staying busy, at least as best I can. 45 years of type 1 diabetes, a recent total hip replacement and now dealing with an arthritic left knee joint hadn't kept me from working every day. And as far as charitable deeds go, it is a good thing to get involved even when you're a young adult, much less retirees etc being counted on for a lot. Some of my good memories are of working on events/fundraisers for such causes as Christmas for Kids, Camp Discovery for handicapped children and raising money to have a Veterans Memorial constructed on our county courthouse property. I was involved in all of these in my 20's and 30's and made many lifelong friends along the way.
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That is great that you are involved in those things. We may know each other. I was involved in the very beginnings of Camp Discovery. You were in the Jaycees correct. I am also a Veteran, served 1966-69
 
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#155,095
#155,095
Redleg68 said:
That is great that you are involved in those things. We may know each other. I was involved in the very beginnings of Camp Discovery. You were in the Jaycees correct. I am also a Veteran, served 1966-69
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First, thank you for your service. And yes I was a Jaycee for many years, being a chapter president and COB, and was later awarded a lifetime achievement and membership award. As you and I both know, those were the good old days for the organization, especially before the law changed and the merger with the Jaycettes took place.
 
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#155,097
#155,097
Part of the problem is the exorbitant salaries of coaches. Players see what their coach makes and naturally want in. I don't fault their desire, but they fail to see the reality that universities face. Think where college athletics would be without donors. If universities had to get by on generated revenue alone, without donor assistance, they'd be screwed.
 
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#155,098
#155,098
Devo182 said:
Employees aren't sent 1099s. Contractors are.

Besides, do you pay taxes on your employer's training, insurance benefits, and fringe benefits? Of course not. You pay taxes on the money going into your pocket. There are a few, but rare, fringe benefits for most employees that are taxed.

If employees had to pay taxes on their "true cost" to an employer, they would freaking revolt. Fringe benefits comprise about 30-40% of most employee costs...imagine getting a 60k salary and paying taxes on 100k.
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Yes, I know the difference between W-2 and 1099 compensation. I used to own my own business so don’t act like I and others don’t understand the concepts you are referring to. The point of my comment was that these players do not
comprehend what the value of the services provided for them actually cost.

I am a fan of TN football. Players come and go. If the “new normal” was 200 lb lineman taken from the student body, I would still watch. These players have more opportunities than their young’s minds seem to comprehend. Most “students” have to go into debt to get a degree, eat properly on campus, pay money to go see a doctor, pay for tutoring, and have to meet regular admission requirements for the opportunity to go into debt. These players are blessed with a potential life altering experience that most people will never have a chance at.
During at time when millions are out of work, millions have lost their businesses, and the country is dealing with so much uncertainty, it irritates me that they think they deserve more than what is currently provided to them for free.
 
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