George Floyd Protest/Riots

#8,927
#8,927
37L1 said:
Shortages are not fixed by higher pay unless you pay your "qualified" and "higher standard" candidates way more than what they could get working in a safer and saner environment.

Everyone suggest higher pay without throwing out a number. How about someone start? How much would it take for you to become a law enforcement officer these days?
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That's kind of my point. I think 55 a year starting wage is acceptable (speaking from Jacksonville COL). At 55k starting, it's more than the say 35-45k office job. Place a similar wage ladder and you'll retain smarter people but also attract them and attract the same exceptional cops you have now.


The "tours" idea has some merit. Some departments have programs similar to your idea of "tours." Some have mandatory shift rotation, some have specialty assignments but the officer has to qualify and put in for them.

There are downsides to taking someone off the street for a lengthy period of time, such as being rusty with the street sense that makes the hair standup on the back of the neck but you don't know exactly why, AKA instincts. But it is an idea and it should be tried and studied in a pilot project somewhere to find out if it will work. But then you need the manpower to replace the shift cop who is in the three month off period. Not many departments have enough personnel to do that. But it's a good idea, I'm sure some very smart people with good intentions will come up with others. Most cops, like people in general don't like change. But most cops, like most people want to do better than what they are doing today. Maybe because of these terrible and unfortunate events, something good may eventually come from them.
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Perhaps 3 on and 3 off is too long but maybe 6 weeks? I think it may help to have a cool down period from constant negative confrontations and switch to positive ones with the community outreach.

My suggestion is that maybe officers should undergo a regular psych check (annually or as needed) to see if some things have changed due to their exposure to what cops see and do on a regular basis. If they are found to be unable/no longer prepared to fill the position due to mental "injury", it should be treated the same as a physical injury is treated, get them well and if they can't get to the place they need to be to do the job, retirement with the same benefits as if they suffered a career ending, debilitating injury. Nowadays cops, fire, EMS, do tend to get counseling after a particularly nasty incident, that didn't used to be the case. Back in the day, they were told to "suck it up and get back to work", as if nothing had happened. That is a change and for the better.

We need the law enforcement professionals and they need the support of the people they serve. Until that reality sinks in on both sides, it's going to be a big mess.
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Psych levels might be a way to lessen the harshness of the tour time frames. That's not a bad idea.
 
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#8,929
#8,929
Orange_Crush said:
I have many police officers in my close and extended family. EVERY one of them, I noticed a distinct change in their personality and character after and as they became officers. They developed a very low opinion of humanity. They see the worst out of humanity all shift, every shift, so they develop this underlying worldview that everyone is a thug--some just hide it better than others.

I really don't want to broad-brush, but I wonder if this is the nature of the problem. Their job by definition conditions them to by-default treat/view everyone as though they are animals/thugs. It's almost as though they simmer an unrecognized attitude that humans are subhuman.

That headline/video indicates a horrible lack of self-awareness, as you mentioned.
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Ditto with prosecutors and even criminal defense attorneys.

IMo, the issue you’re describing arises from the fact that people in poverty have limited capital to get what they want. Their options are often do without, work hard and try to earn it, attempt to solicit charity, or take it by force. Poverty often self-selects for people geared towards the latter choices. It’s certainly not all of them, but a fair number turn to attempts to beguile charity when they’re caught red handed and arrested.

I don’t know how far into practice I was before it dawned on me why prosecutors didn’t cared about the effect of jail sentences on people’s kids or jobs or whatever other collateral reasons they had for negotiating less jail time. It wasn’t very long, maybe a week? But it was way too long.

I know cops deal with it because I have listened to thousands of recordings of the ride to the jail. With somebody caught stealing from Wal Mart or somebody with drugs in the car.

Being subject to that type of emotional manipulation on a constant basis requires you to steel yourself to people pleading with you to feel sympathy for their circumstances, but that steeling has lasting effects. It degrades the presumption of respect.

You have to be acutely aware of your own principles and values to remain respectful without being manipulated and contemporary culture is terrible at cultivating that awareness and police training tells officers that they expose themselves to danger if they don’t assume everyone is a bad guy who is a split second away from killing them.
 
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#8,932
#8,932
n_huffhines said:
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#8,933
#8,933


Can you imagine the prosperity these cities could achieve if they voted out the Liberals who have run them into the ground and did away with their sanctuaries for illegals? That's the true pathway to reform. It's great to see so many finally awakening to that reality. Just vote them out...
 
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#8,934
#8,934
RockyTop85 said:
Ditto with prosecutors and even criminal defense attorneys.

IMo, the issue you’re describing arises from the fact that people in poverty have limited capital to get what they want. Their options are often do without, work hard and try to earn it, attempt to solicit charity, or take it by force. Poverty often self-selects for people geared towards the latter choices. It’s certainly not all of them, but a fair number turn to attempts to beguile charity when they’re caught red handed and arrested.

I don’t know how far into practice I was before it dawned on me why prosecutors didn’t cared about the effect of jail sentences on people’s kids or jobs or whatever other collateral reasons they had for negotiating less jail time. It wasn’t very long, maybe a week? But it was way too long.

I know cops deal with it because I have listened to thousands of recordings of the ride to the jail. With somebody caught stealing from Wal Mart or somebody with drugs in the car.

Being subject to that type of emotional manipulation on a constant basis requires you to steel yourself to people pleading with you to feel sympathy for their circumstances, but that steeling has lasting effects. It degrades the presumption of respect.

You have to be acutely aware of your own principles and values to remain respectful without being manipulated and contemporary culture is terrible at cultivating that awareness and police training tells officers that they expose themselves to danger if they don’t assume everyone is a bad guy who is a split second away from killing them.
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I agree. I serve and lead ministries to homeless, etc. We get the beguiling lies all the time. It takes steeling. That steeling demands purposed, active "steeling against the effects of the steeling".

I completely understand.

It helps me to understand that, as far as scripture goes, "love" isn't a feeling. It's continual constant decisions about how you will treat someone, what you wish for them, etc...independent of what you feel they deserve, or how you feel about them.
 
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#8,935
#8,935
No he's not. It's gotta suck being a cop right now. What happened to the days of honoring our first responders and seeing folks wearing NYPD hats? All it took was for one bad incident to happen in flyover territory. It's like the saying "one aw crap erases 1000 atta boys"
 
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#8,937
#8,937
McDad said:
The traditional Republican positions with this whole thing are fascinating.
Big government = No. Big Police = Yes.
Unions = No. Police Unions = Yes.
Gov reform = Yes. Police reform = No.
2A protects from Gov tyranny = Yes. Actual Gov tyranny = No armed resistance.
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Those positions are compatible with a party that respects law and order and wants our laws to be enforced. It's compatible with hiring border control agents to protect our borders. It's compatible with having a strong military to protect us. Republicans feel that there's a place for the private sector and that there's a role for gov't. These are roles of gov't. As for unions, I don't think they're a big fan of the police union but they'd be idiots if they don't buddy up to them for political reasons. The Dems are serving up our first responders to the GOP on a silver platter.
 
#8,938
#8,938
VolStrom said:
They definitely know how to financially penalize the scourge of society for driving 11 mph over the speed limit while doing the same thing every day themselves,
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That is not what the worst of the worst is, and we are talking about the stuff that actually weighs on people (assaults, death, shootings, child abuse, fires, traffic accidents, etc)
 
#8,941
#8,941
Rickyvol77 said:
That is not what the worst of the worst is, and we are talking about the stuff that actually weighs on people (assaults, death, shootings, child abuse, fires, traffic accidents, etc)
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Come on now, you have to acknowledge that 90% of the interaction that the police have with with the public is from writing them tickets don't you? They tax first, protect when they feel like it.
 
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#8,942
#8,942
Sea Ray said:
No he's not. It's gotta suck being a cop right now. What happened to the days of honoring our first responders and seeing folks wearing NYPD hats? All it took was for one bad incident to happen in flyover territory. It's like the saying "one aw crap erases 1000 atta boys"
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It's the way of the liberal left. One person does a mass shooting and suddenly all gun owners are potential murders and NRA members are terrorists.

One white supremacist does a mass shooting and all of a sudden all Southerners who have a pride in there family's heritage and own a Confederate flag are now labeled Nazis & white supremacists.

One cop accidentally kills a black man (no proof it was intentional) and all of a sudden all cops are racist & murders.
 
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#8,947
#8,947
CagleMtnVol said:
It's the way of the liberal left. One person does a mass shooting and suddenly all gun owners are potential murders and NRA members are terrorists.

One white supremacist does a mass shooting and all of a sudden all Southerners who have a pride in there family's heritage and own a Confederate flag are now labeled Nazis & white supremacists.

One cop accidentally kills a black man (no proof it was intentional) and all of a sudden all cops are racist & murders.
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Yeah one person, not like we’ve had dozens of mass shootings and police murders recently
 
#8,950
#8,950
volfanjustin said:
I can't believe the fraud SJWs here or in professional sports haven't spoken out against this. I wonder why that would be?
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Because the whataboutism of requiring everyone upset about Floyd’s death to give a statement on every single confrontation is something a 2nd grader would scoff at?
 
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