Systemic Racism

[1972 Grad]

You believe this? Literally all hardships?

Have blacks not overcome their history? I would say surviving is overcoming. Just because they're not as affluent as Jews doesn't mean they haven't overcome. Just because they overcame doesn't mean they should be content with the system.

Your white guilt is eating you up today. Did you own slaves in a previous life?

 

[hog88]

I never said you said that. The fact that they can overcome the system doesn't really have any bearing on the conversation. It has no bearing on whether or not there is systemic racism. It's like you are complaining about taxes and someone responds, "it's OK, you can overcome. The Jews got rich despite taxes." Cool point.

The post I was originally replying to:

Slavery and Jim Crow lasted from like 1619-1970 and according to this board, black people were supposed to be on equal footing by 2000

Is an excuse, not a complaint.

Other people(s) have had it as or even worse throughout history and have managed to overcome and thrive. Are there challenges for poor and minority people, yes. Have we as a country in the past treated African Americans like crap, yes. But there is a tremendous amount of opportunity for everyone in this country it just has to be taken advantage of.

 

[hog88]

My biggest problem is the incessant whining from the black community. Shut up, man up, get an education, and go to work to better yourself, like the rest of us.

It's not all of the black community. I have several black employees and they work their azzes off, I wouldn't trade any of them. I see most of the complaining coming from the college educated urban raised than I do the blue collar set.

 

[C-south]

I never said you said that. The fact that they can overcome the system doesn't really have any bearing on the conversation. It has no bearing on whether or not there is systemic racism. It's like you are complaining about taxes and someone responds, "it's OK, you can overcome. The Jews got rich despite taxes." Cool point.

So are you saying it’s a genetic thing? How racisty of you.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I know, I’ve seen that video but making it essentially the spokesperson for white privilege (or me, for that matter) is irresponsible.

White privilege isn’t the idea that white people don’t have hard lives, just that race specifically isn’t what is making them harder.

Here are a few examples that aren’t explained by just money:

http://also-chicago.org/also_site/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/white-privilege.pdf

You forgot the part about proving as opposed to emotional ploys or bald assertions.

I read the list, as I have read many. And they're crap for the most part. You are yet to prove that blacks suffer these things at a systemic level, that all/any of these things hamper your opportunity to be successful, etc... Failing that, you're just making emotional accusations.

Here are the first six, which is just the random place my click-drag stopped copying:


___ 1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.___
2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followedor harassed.___
3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of myrace widely represented.___
4. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that peopleof my color made it what it is.___
5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to theexistence of their race.___
6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into asupermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdressers shop and find someonewho can deal with my hair.

1. -- You're telling me that blacks can't arrange to be in the company of blacks most of the time, and that whites can?

You want to prove that? And for that matter, you are asking for the right to segregation? WTH?


2. -- You're telling me that the average black can't go shopping alone MOST OF THE TIME PRETTY WELL ASSURED that they won't be followed or harrassed?

You're actually trying to sell us on the idea that blacks are followed and harrassed almost everywhere they go and almost all the time? BS. Utter BS. I say, "Prove it". Prove such an assetion that race relations in America in 2020 is at the point that everyone else is hunting AAs when they're in public, alone.

Until you prove that, you're making the argument for racial paranoia. Perhaps history in our country gives you good excuse for having racial paranoia, but it will be a much different problem to fix than "white privilege".

3. -- 3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of myrace widely represented.___

You serious with that? Really? From the Cosby Show to "Blackish" to the current Prime Video banner?

4. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that peopleof my color made it what it is.___

You serious with that? There are black studied classes from middle school to college. There is the BET news channel, and mainstream media and education have been purposeful in integrating black history into our history.

5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to theexistence of their race.___

What is this anyway? Your kid doesn't know that black people exist? And why would you need schools to prove to them that their race exists, or that (4) their race has a wonderful heritage, and made America great? Aren't parents doing that?

6. You're telling me that you can't find rap music, or African folk music, or whatever foods you grew up with?

You're telling me that capitalism is racist?


You forgot the parts about proving anything. You made bald assertions without bothering to prove that (a) they are correct about blacks, (b) they are correct about whites, or (c) make a difference in the scheme of blacks leaving poverty and becoming successful in America.

I'm actually very open to the conversation, as I actually do thing America has stacked the deck against blacks (as I've posted quite a bit here). I just think that the sad part is that by passing this crap off as the problem, the real problems will never be fixed.

ETA: This one is too funny not to be covered...

I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having myco-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race

Sit back and consider that affirmative action policies apparently now prove white privilege. Giving people jobs because of their minority status proves that whites are privileged. Besides the fact that the entire point is built on black perceptions of white motives, as opposed to facts... The assertion itself is incredibly racist.

 

[Septic]

Your white guilt is eating you up today. Did you own slaves in a previous life?

Given your age, it'd be entirely likely that you grew up in a time where slavery was still common. It's unfortunate that your advanced dementia prevents you from remembering the hardships that surrounded their lives. It saddens me to know that loss of empathy is a symptom that my great, great grandmother could have been afflicted with.

 

[1972 Grad]

It's not all of the black community. I have several black employees and they work their azzes off, I wouldn't trade any of them. I see most of the complaining coming from the college educated urban raised than I do the blue collar set.

I know it's not all of them, but that is about all that the media will lend a platform to. The black people that I know who don't make race an issue, have no issues. They look at themselves as people first, like the rest of us.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

Black Lives Matter isn't about all black lives

Black Pastor Warns: Black Lives Matter Is a Lie — Romans One

 

[1972 Grad]

Given your age, it'd be entirely likely that you grew up in a time where slavery was still common. It's unfortunate that your advanced dementia prevents you from remembering the hardships that surrounded their lives. It saddens me to know that loss of empathy is a symptom that my great, great grandmother could have been afflicted with.

That sh!t is hereditary you know. Your great, great granny probably passed it down.

 

[n_huffhines]

Is an excuse, not a complaint.

You decide this?

Other people(s) have had it as or even worse throughout history and have managed to overcome and thrive. Are there challenges for poor and minority people, yes. Have we as a country in the past treated African Americans like crap, yes. But there is a tremendous amount of opportunity for everyone in this country it just has to be taken advantage of.

Other people have overcome even more taxes.

 

[hog88]

You decide this?



Other people have overcome even more taxes.

I did.

Your second point is just more of your idiocy.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Here or worldwide? They’re doing well here, but no one came close to enslaving them. In Germany, home of the most famous extermination attempt, there still are relatively few Jews left in the country.

Being vaguely “discriminated against” in America is also not the same as slavery and Jim Crow

No one came close to enslaving the Jews? ummmm what?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Oh, snap!

Black Congressional Candidate & Former NFL Player Burgess Owens Calls “White Privilege” A Racist Term

 

[C-south]

No one came close to enslaving the Jews? ummmm what?

Jewish slaves didn’t really build the pyramids in Egypt. Bingo! All we have to do is deny slavery existed here too!

 

[n_huffhines]

I did.

Your second point is just more of your idiocy.

lol

 

[volbeast33]

Oh, snap!

Black Congressional Candidate & Former NFL Player Burgess Owens Calls “White Privilege” A Racist Term

He is right

 

[Orange_Crush]

Question on the "White Privilege" questionnaire given earlier:

13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.

As they are speaking about all white people's privilege and asking each white person to take responsibility of their entire race...

(If this was college coursework, it doesn't speak well for the critical thinking skills being taught at said college...)

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

Michael Obama says working class people are racist once again

Michelle Obama says 'tidy stories' of working-class Americans just a cover for racism, injustice

 

[Orange_Crush]

1. I can arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.___
2. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followedor harassed.___
3. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of myrace widely represented.___
4. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that peopleof my color made it what it is.___
5. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to theexistence of their race.___
6. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into asupermarket and find the food I grew up with, into a hairdressers shop and find someonewho can deal with my hair.___
7. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to workagainst the appearance of financial responsibility.___
8. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing, or body odor will be taken as areflection on my race.___
9. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.___
10. I can take a job or enroll in a college with an affirmative action policy without having myco-workers or peers assume I got it because of my race.___
11. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.___
12. I can choose public accommodation with out fearing that people of my race cannot get inor will be mistreated.___
13. I am never asked to speak for all of the people of my racial group.___
14. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk with the person in charge I will be facing aperson of my race.___
15. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haventbeen singled out because of my race.___
16. I can easily by posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, andchildrens magazines featuring people of my race.___
17. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less matchmy skin.___
18. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.___
19. I can walk into a classroom and know I will not be the only member of my race.___
20. I can enroll in a class at college and be sure that the majority of my professors will be ofmy rac

It's actually crazy how much of that questionnaire was written with the language of perception (as opposed to fact), and hinged on either the inferred motives and assumed racism of others, and/or an inferred distrust of other races.

i.e. -- What one worries about, is "acutely aware of", has no assurance of, fears... That is probably a very important discussion to have, but it is not a reflection on what "is" outside of the individual's perspective. There is more needed to establish that.

i.e. -- The assumption that traffic stops, financial checks, admonitions for being late to meetings, or the need to care about body odor are racially motivated. That may be an important conversation to have, but the questionnaire begs these questions as facts in order to prove their existence.

i.e. -- Assuming the need to speak to black management, or see predominately black professors in class to be assured fair treatment.

 

[LouderVol]

“White privledge is based on money because I don’t feel like reading about it” isn’t a problem with the definition, it’s a problem with the laziness of the reader

I have read and commented on several articles and videos here. Actually one of them was a video on a study done in an article already posted but I digress. My comments were never addressed.

We have the fake Jamal and white kid argument. Which is so weighted it's actually kinda funny to use as a starting point. As I pointed out replace black Jamal with a white trailer park kid and you get the same results.

If you want to point out the step forward type of "randomly determined" questions designed to make the differences in wealth apparent in a physical format it is again based on wealth. Do that in rural white America. Not many kids stepping forward there. Instead the video creates chose a best of and worst of scenario to over emphasize the problem.

Even the studies on names is targeted at a race, but can easily miss its target. White people can use "black" names, and black people can use "white names". Not saying they could or should. But when its racially specific generalizations but not actually racially specific to who ends up being targeted it fits in with the argument, That it's less systemic RACIAL problems and just a systemic problem.

Not sure what else has actually been tossed out. Let's see what you got.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I have read and commented on several articles and videos here. Actually one of them was a video on a study done in an article already posted but I digress. My comments were never addressed.

We have the fake Jamal and white kid argument. Which is so weighted it's actually kinda funny to use as a starting point. As I pointed out replace black Jamal with a white trailer park kid and you get the same results.

If you want to point out the step forward type of "randomly determined" questions designed to make the differences in wealth apparent in a physical format it is again based on wealth. Do that in rural white America. Not many kids stepping forward there. Instead the video creates chose a best of and worst of scenario to over emphasize the problem.

Even the studies on names is targeted at a race, but can easily miss its target. White people can use "black" names, and black people can use "white names". Not saying they could or should. But when its racially specific generalizations but not actually racially specific to who ends up being targeted it fits in with the argument, That it's less systemic RACIAL problems and just a systemic problem.

Not sure what else has actually been tossed out. Let's see what you got.

This was born out by Thomas Howell in the article Midnight posted yesterday (such a great read!).

Because there were no racial differences to form separate statistical categories for these north Britons and for other whites who settled in the South or in particular enclaves elsewhere, indirect indicators must serve as proxies for these cultural differences. Names are among these indicators. Edward, for example, was a popular name in Virginia and in Wessex, England, from which many Virginians had emigrated, but the first forty classes of undergraduates at Harvard College contained only one man named Edward. It would be nearly two centuries before Harvard enrolled anyone named Patrick, even though that was a common name in western Pennsylvania, where the Ulster Scots settled. This says something not only about the social and geographic differences of the times, but also about how regionalized the naming patterns were then, in contrast to the fact that no one today find it particularly strange when an Asian American has such non-Asian first names as Kevin or Michelle.

That's not a racial issue. It's a cultural disparity issue. In colonial America, there wasn't much race to divide over, but there were cultural differences that divided, and certain assumptions per people groups, depending on where they immigrated from. There may be perceived cultural differences today between the professional working culture and a certain subculture.

If you attached this picture to a resume, would they get the call-back? Would it be because of racial issues, or assumptions about the individual based on the subculture they're identified with?

If the following two pictures were attached to resumes, which one do you think would get a call-back?

Is it racial? Or tied to perceptions about certain sub-cultures?

 

[LouderVol]

I know, I’ve seen that video but making it essentially the spokesperson for white privilege (or me, for that matter) is irresponsible.

White privilege isn’t the idea that white people don’t have hard lives, just that race specifically isn’t what is making them harder.

Here are a few examples that aren’t explained by just money:

http://also-chicago.org/also_site/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/white-privilege.pdf

Lol. I live and work in Atlanta. I am in the minority down here. That covers about half of those. My other personal experiences cover another 1/4.

This is more about diversity than actual racial issues. If you are AA and live with a bunch of whites you can check a good number of those. If you were white and lived around a bunch of AA you could check most of those, like I have.

Like how is the history of a predominately white nation teaching about predominately white historical figures an issue? They dont cover every white person, and at least for me, i didnt only learn about white people. Cant say if it was demographically appropriate, but is that what we are arguing? That 20% of the population is black so anything less than 20% of history class being about black is racist? How do you even judge that?

 

[Chris4Vols22]

Ok, I have a stupid and legitimate question...

Can anyone succinctly explain the plight of the Jewish people to me? I've never had any Jewish friends (that I'm aware of) that have ever touched on that subject. Why did Hitler hate them so much? Why are there anti-Jew hate groups?

I'm sincerely ignorant and curious.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Ok, I have a stupid and legitimate question...

Can anyone succinctly explain the plight of the Jewish people to me? I've never had any Jewish friends (that I'm aware of) that have ever touched on that subject. Why did Hitler hate them so much? Why are there anti-Jew hate groups?

I'm sincerely ignorant and curious.

You want a religious answer, or no?

 

[k-town_king]

This was born out by Thomas Howell in the article Midnight posted yesterday (such a great read!).



That's not a racial issue. It's a cultural disparity issue. In colonial America, there wasn't much race to divide over, but there were cultural differences that divided, and certain assumptions per people groups, depending on where they immigrated from. There may be perceived cultural differences today between the professional working culture and a certain subculture.

If you attached this picture to a resume, would they get the call-back? Would it be because of racial issues, or assumptions about the individual based on the subculture they're identified with?

If the following two pictures were attached to resumes, which one do you think would get a call-back?

Is it racial? Or tied to perceptions about certain sub-cultures?

Wrong. Stop making excuses for racism.

Employers Prefer White Felons Over Blacks With No Criminal Record; So, How Will Blacks Feed Their Families? - Rolling Out

White High School Drop-Outs Are As Likely To Land Jobs As Black College Students

African-Americans With College Degrees Are Twice As Likely to Be Unemployed as Other Graduates

A Black College Student Has The Same Chances Of Getting A Job As A White High School Dropout