George Floyd Protest/Riots

[hndog609]

And pepper spray isn’t what was in those containers either

I've seen nothing that indicates that is not the case. You realize those shells are merely a delivery system. OC is oleoresin capsicum.

What Is Oleoresin Capsicum?

It may be a bit generic to call it "pepper spray" but it is not CS or CN. I'd focus on this part of that Vox article at the end.

“If we had shot CS or CN, every [Park Police] officer there would’ve had a gas mask on,” said Delgado, who was present the forced dispersal on Monday. “But what you saw were very few officers with gas masks walking through the quote-unquote tear gas with no effects. Now that would be impossible if that was CS or CN and you had no protection.”
“I’ve been through the stuff. You would see officers and civilians crawling, everything out of their sinuses pouring out onto their shirts and onto the ground, people helping each other walk because you can’t see,” Delgado noted.

 

[Weezer]

And this is why people are protesting. They grossly overreacted. Nearly killed a guy. And they want to back their peers who did it.

I can see both sides. No one wants to see the police hurt an innocent man. At the same time, I can understand that colleagues could look at that video and see what happened as an unfortunate accident where their comrades are taking excessive heat because of current social circumstances. The officers involved deserve a consequence, but the consequence should be reasonable based on what actually happened.

 

[volfanhill]

I've seen nothing that indicates that is not the case. You realize those shells are merely a delivery system. OC is oleoresin capsicum.

What Is Oleoresin Capsicum?

It may be a bit generic to call it "pepper spray" but it is not CS or CN. I'd focus on this part of that Vox article at the end.

“If we had shot CS or CN, every [Park Police] officer there would’ve had a gas mask on,” said Delgado, who was present the forced dispersal on Monday. “But what you saw were very few officers with gas masks walking through the quote-unquote tear gas with no effects. Now that would be impossible if that was CS or CN and you had no protection.”
“I’ve been through the stuff. You would see officers and civilians crawling, everything out of their sinuses pouring out onto their shirts and onto the ground, people helping each other walk because you can’t see,” Delgado noted.

All I know is it wasn’t pepper spray and wasn’t tear gas. And I also know Trump decided to stop a peaceful protest to take arguably the dumbest phot in presidential history. It’s up there with Mission Accomplished.

 

[VolStrom]

I don't think they were intending to hurt the guy. That doesn't excuse their actions completely, but I don't see the video the same that some do. The man approached the police and put hands on. That's a big no-no in and of itself. The officers pushed him back, and to me, it looks like he stumbled. I don't think the intention was to push him violently to the ground. It was an unfortunate consequence. And I'm sure the man's age played a part.

After that, a person who I assume to be a supervisor pushes the other cops forward while speaking into his radio. At that point, I'm assuming he's calling for medics, and by the end of the video, you can see people who I assume to be medics bent over attending to the man.

I could be completely wrong on how I interpret that. After all, I wasn't there. But the elderly man did engage first. He didn't deserve to be near killed for it, but again, I don't think that was the intention of the officers either.

End of the day, cooler heads on both sides need to prevail.

What isn't excusable is that when an officer went to render aid or check on the man the one that pushed him grabbed the officer and pulled him away and pushed him forward. To me that is negligence and he needs to go to jail for it. These bad apples get exposed everyday and until the leadership gets them out of the police forces then these riots will happen.

 

[volfanhill]

I can see both sides. No one wants to see the police hurt an innocent man. At the same time, I can understand that colleagues could look at that video and see what happened as an unfortunate accident where their comrades are taking excessive heat because of current social circumstances. The officers involved deserve a consequence, but the consequence should be reasonable based on what actually happened.

The officers were suspended. Not fired. They should relax

 

[Weezer]

And pepper spray isn’t what was in those containers either

How do we know what was in the containers? I've seen one side claim one thing while the other claims different. I'm not sure which is the truth.

 

[Weezer]

What isn't excusable is that when an officer went to render aid or check on the man the one that pushed him grabbed the officer and pulled him away and pushed him forward. To me that is negligence and he needs to go to jail for it. These bad apples get exposed everyday and until the leadership gets them out of the police forces then these riots will happen.

I think he may have done that though because he was radioing medics to assist the man. Without medical training, there's nothing that cop that got pushed forward could have done. So, who I assume was a supervisor, refocused him on the task at hand. Again, maybe I just see it differently than others.

 

[volfanhill]

How do we know what was in the containers? I've seen one side claim one thing while the other claims different. I'm not sure which is the truth.

The company that sells it to the cops doesn’t call it either pepper spray or tear gas. Probably something in between. But I could be wrong bc I don’t have knowledge on this stuff.

 

[NCFisher]

A number of people - @bnhunt @volfanhill @RockyTop85 @zeppelin128 @n_huffhines - a few off the top of my head, have characterized the Lafayette perimeter expansion as simply an abusive disregard of 1st amendment rights to stage a photo op.

I give you the opportunity to say "I was wrong. Though lacking impulse control to determine the facts, I should have learned my lesson - even in my reactive state - to not accept as fact my preferred media spoonfeedings."
Queue at 34:00.

Now, no need to thank me for no having to parrot *this* false narrative, at least; I do it from benevolence and love for you, my fellow citizens. I'm sure I'll have other opportunities for us to come together.

"Ahhhmerrrrica!...Ahmerrrrica...."

 

[Ten_Titans]

She actually made the hypothetical comparison in her tweet. You're trying to make another for her which simply isn't there. If she wanted to tie it to Floyd she would have but instead she used an even more polarizing "three white kids"

I have no idea what on Earth you're talking about. Why do you keep saying hypothetical? It wasn't a hypothetical. The fact that you can ask for proof that the crime she mentioned was racially motivated and not understand her point is crazy to me.

This is her own comment on that exact tweet.



But whatever you say I guess.

 

[volfanhill]

I think he may have done that though because he was radioing medics to assist the man. Without medical training, there's nothing that cop that got pushed forward could have done. So, who I assume was a supervisor, refocused him on the task at hand. Again, maybe I just see it differently than others.

Cops are trained on basic first aid. He could have stopped and rendered aid.

 

[Weezer]

All I know is it wasn’t pepper spray and wasn’t tear gas. And I also know Trump decided to stop a peaceful protest to take arguably the dumbest phot in presidential history. It’s up there with Mission Accomplished.

I can agree it was a dumb photo op. I doubt it was as clear cut as Trump saying clear those protesters out so I can go. He probably told the SS he wanted to go to the church then left it up to them to make it happen. Presidents don't put that much thought into their security. That's what the Secret Service is for.

Side note, anyone else ever think it ironic our Presidential protectors are the Secret Service, or SS?

 

[hndog609]

All I know is it wasn’t pepper spray and wasn’t tear gas. And I also know Trump decided to stop a peaceful protest to take arguably the dumbest phot in presidential history. It’s up there with Mission Accomplished.

I was merely trying to get some accuracy in there as it appears there is no dearth of "tear gas canisters found" stories out there. I mean, it's not as bad as this:

Huffington Post journalist Ryan Reilly mistakes ear plugs for rubber bullets and receives Twitter mockery

but wrong all the same. (unless real evidence of actual CN or CS usage emerges, which seems unlikely at this point for reasons already explained)

 

[utvolpj]

I have no idea what on Earth you're talking about. The fact that you can ask for proof that the crime she mentioned was racially motivated and not understand her point is crazy to me.

This is her own comment on that exact tweet.



But whatever you say I guess.

So I have to read the comments now to get her point? Maybe she should just make it instead of using 3 hypothetical white kids killing a black girl in place of 4 diverse cops killing a black man

 

[Weezer]

The company that sells it to the cops doesn’t call it either pepper spray or tear gas. Probably something in between. But I could be wrong bc I don’t have knowledge on this stuff.

I was just curious because both sides have different stories, and honestly, I just don't trust the press to give us the truth.

 

[VolStrom]

I think he may have done that though because he was radioing medics to assist the man. Without medical training, there's nothing that cop that got pushed forward could have done. So, who I assume was a supervisor, refocused him on the task at hand. Again, maybe I just see it differently than others.

I thought all cops had medical training? It doesn't require much training to bandage someones head when they are profusely bleeding anyways. Did you see the pool of blood on the sidewalk under the mans head? That wasn't scratch, it was a major injury.

 

[KB5252]

Meh. They’ve become too militarized, and when their training is a joke, it leads to too many issues.QUOTE]


Interesting they've become too militant while under in liberally dominated areas yet the right is somehow to blame. I don't understand the logic.

 

[VolFaninFla]

World is off the tracks. So much hate and evil.
Victims appear to be Latinos who were too afraid to fight back.

EDIT: There are two stories here. The one with the young woman making the ultimate sacrifice and the video where the guys face is being used as a punching bag.

 

[Weezer]

Cops are trained on basic first aid. He could have stopped and rendered aid.

Basic, but the actual medics were there fairly quickly from what I saw. The one cop looked like he wanted to check, but if that was a supervisor, his job is to keep his guys on task and let the medics assist the wounded.

Truthfully, all we have is a video that leaves out a lot of context. It's hard to know with any certainty what was actually happening. So we're all making assumptions.

 

[n_huffhines]

A number of people - @bnhunt @volfanhill @RockyTop85 @zeppelin128 @n_huffhines - a few off the top of my head, have characterized the Lafayette perimeter expansion as simply an abusive disregard of 1st amendment rights to stage a photo op.

I give you the opportunity to say "I was wrong. Though lacking impulse control to determine the facts, I should have learned my lesson - even in my reactive state - to not accept as fact my preferred media spoonfeedings."
Queue at 34:00.

Now, no need to thank me for no having to parrot *this* false narrative, at least; I do it from benevolence and love for you, my fellow citizens. I'm sure I'll have other opportunities for us to come together.

"Ahhhmerrrrica!...Ahmerrrrica...."

I recall mocking the stupidity of the pandering aspect, but I don't remember making a 1st amendment gripe out of it. I assume you're going to offer me some sort of apology now? You have the opportunity.

What am I supposed to glean from this hour-long video from an AG that I do not trust? That he's pulling a play straight out of the I'm full of **** playbook "the agitators were foreign!"

 

[volfanhill]

Basic, but the actual medics were there fairly quickly from what I saw. The one cop looked like he wanted to check, but if that was a supervisor, his job is to keep his guys on task and let the medics assist the wounded.

Truthfully, all we have is a video that leaves out a lot of context. It's hard to know with any certainty what was actually happening. So we're all making assumptions.

I can agree with that

 

[Ten_Titans]

So I have to read the comments now to get her point? Maybe she should just make it instead of using 3 hypothetical white kids killing a black girl in place of 4 diverse cops killing a black man

You shouldn't, because the point is obvious. She could have just said "People can assume white on black crime is racially motivated, but everyone demands evidence of racism in black on white crime before making that claim."

Instead she used an example. And you immediately proved her point by asking for evidence of racism.

It's fine man. I don't know how you don't get that, but I know I can't explain it any clearer. It's all good.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I don't think they were intending to hurt the guy. That doesn't excuse their actions completely, but I don't see the video the same that some do. The man approached the police and put hands on. That's a big no-no in and of itself. The officers pushed him back, and to me, it looks like he stumbled. I don't think the intention was to push him violently to the ground. It was an unfortunate consequence. And I'm sure the man's age played a part.

After that, a person who I assume to be a supervisor pushes the other cops forward while speaking into his radio. At that point, I'm assuming he's calling for medics, and by the end of the video, you can see people who I assume to be medics bent over attending to the man.

I could be completely wrong on how I interpret that. After all, I wasn't there. But the elderly man did engage first. He didn't deserve to be near killed for it, but again, I don't think that was the intention of the officers either.

End of the day, cooler heads on both sides need to prevail.

You don’t ever grab at an officers belt. But especially in riot control calls. Utter stupidity

 

[KB5252]

They are protesting cops killing unarmed black people

You can't be totally unaware of the narrative. How many out of 10 would you guess say it was racially motivated if asked?

 

[VolStrom]

So I have to read the comments now to get her point? Maybe she should just make it instead of using 3 hypothetical white kids killing a black girl in place of 4 diverse cops killing a black man

WTF? Do you keep up with anything? This girl was Johnny Majors niece and she was killed by 3 black males that have now admitted to killing her. There is nothing hypothetical here.