NCAA releases first step in getting back to competition

#51
#51
VOLINVONORE said:
Irresponsible to do that until a treatment is discovered/developed and readily available. An effective vaccine should also be available if no treatment is available. This virus has already killed more people than we last in Vietnam. We still do not know the sequelae of this virus. We already know that some of the aequelae affect infants, children, and young adults. It affect more than just the elderly with conditions. In addition, we still do not know if “herd immunity” will be effective for this virus. Some other corona virus antibodies last as little as 6 months to less than 18 months. This could mean that a vaccine would be ineffective from one year to the next year and herd immunity would not exist.
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dangggg you’re right. We lose more Americans than we did in Vietnam with the flu most years too, and to cancer, and heart disease, and smoking, and some times vehicle accidents. Why don’t we shut the world down for that stuff too?
 
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#52
#52
GlockVol said:
Not trying to have it both ways. Doesn't matter where our widgets come from but substances you put into your body to fight diseases are more important. The Feds have admitted that they have let drugs into the country that might not meet FDA standards because they had no choice. When there is only one source for the drug the price rises and the quality may fall. Do you really think the Chicoms care if Americans die from substandard drugs? They have killed 40 million of ther own people over the years. They ran over protestors with tanks.
I toured Eli Lilly years ago and they had people with college degrees sitting and watching bottles go by on a conveyor belt to look for crooked or missing labels because they could make more doing that than working in their degree field. You may act non-chalant about that now but I bet you wouldn't be so uncaring if you or a family were harmed by substandard drugs from the Chicoms.
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let's agree to disagree? you make parts of good points except for the fact the only way to get there means socialism by our government. We are either capitalist or we are not. If we have the capacity to produce a product at a competitive price we should but we don't so we don't. It's easy to say country/regime X does not care about the quality of their product as long as you also except they use that same product. it comes down on the end user to decide IF they buy something and where they get it from.

Do we buy subpar products for the sake of price.. yup. But that's capitalism for you. U cant have it both ways. the companies that make the products decide to use the lowest best to make their profit margin work. I work in IT in a very progressive shop. I have worked for fortune 100 companies and their networks are total and complete crap compared to what we run. If you knew what kind of systems/hardware most hospitals and government agencies ran on its would make you faint. Your epidemiologist is likely running a PC that's less powerful than an iPhone for his day to day work. its because the bigger you get the harder it is to move. I live in Chattanooga. You can get a 1Gig connection here for 70 bucks a month.Why it's a midsized city and back in the late 90's we had some bad weather and the EPB here decided to run fiber through the city. A city like say Atlanta or Knoxville could not do that today. It would cost insane amounts of money to rerun all that infrastructure. In any type of government, there are tradeoffs. We are facing some of those inherent to our form of government (fyi we are not a purely capitalist government and never have been it's untenable.). Even China and Russia are not completely Communist. but thats too far off topic.

What it really comes down to is sports. they are extremely important worldwide and especially in America. They will return sooner rather than later and there will be some negative effects from that choice. I am ok with that.
C
 
#53
#53
The Original Fade said:
I had COVID-19 in March and have fully recovered. When I was diagnosed the Arkansas Health Department did a full contact tracing with me primarily focused on the 48 hours prior to my first symptom. It’s pretty much a known fact and you sir do not sound very well informed.
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Exactly correct, Fade. I got sick with the virus and three days later my nurse developed the same symptoms and tested positive followed one day later by my CMA turning positive. Presymptomatic transmission of virus is not a new concept. If I remember correctly you came down with COVID-19 as well. Hope you are recovered and doing well.
 
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#54
#54
mercuryvol said:
Exactly correct, Fade. I got sick with the virus and three days later my nurse developed the same symptoms and tested positive followed one day later by my CMA turning positive. Presymptomatic transmission of virus is not a new concept. If I remember correctly you came down with COVID-19 as well. Hope you are recovered and doing well.
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I did as well as my wife and 12-year-old son. Thank you for the concern, we are doing very well and are very healthy.
 
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#55
#55
VOLINVONORE said:
Irresponsible to do that until a treatment is discovered/developed and readily available. An effective vaccine should also be available if no treatment is available. This virus has already killed more people than we last in Vietnam. We still do not know the sequelae of this virus. We already know that some of the aequelae affect infants, children, and young adults. It affect more than just the elderly with conditions. In addition, we still do not know if “herd immunity” will be effective for this virus. Some other corona virus antibodies last as little as 6 months to less than 18 months. This could mean that a vaccine would be ineffective from one year to the next year and herd immunity would not exist.
Click to expand...

Roughly 20 to 30% of the average Joe walk in the street has antibodies to this virus, meaning that many have already been exposed and infected and have recovered without even knowing it. This also means that the percentage of people who get really sick and are hospitalized is minimal. You don’t wreck the economy for a small % of people who might get really sick.
 
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#56
#56
pimo1 said:
let's agree to disagree? you make parts of good points except for the fact the only way to get there means socialism by our government. We are either capitalist or we are not. If we have the capacity to produce a product at a competitive price we should but we don't so we don't. It's easy to say country/regime X does not care about the quality of their product as long as you also except they use that same product. it comes down on the end user to decide IF they buy something and where they get it from.

Do we buy subpar products for the sake of price.. yup. But that's capitalism for you. U cant have it both ways. the companies that make the products decide to use the lowest best to make their profit margin work. I work in IT in a very progressive shop. I have worked for fortune 100 companies and their networks are total and complete crap compared to what we run. If you knew what kind of systems/hardware most hospitals and government agencies ran on its would make you faint. Your epidemiologist is likely running a PC that's less powerful than an iPhone for his day to day work. its because the bigger you get the harder it is to move. I live in Chattanooga. You can get a 1Gig connection here for 70 bucks a month.Why it's a midsized city and back in the late 90's we had some bad weather and the EPB here decided to run fiber through the city. A city like say Atlanta or Knoxville could not do that today. It would cost insane amounts of money to rerun all that infrastructure. In any type of government, there are tradeoffs. We are facing some of those inherent to our form of government (fyi we are not a purely capitalist government and never have been it's untenable.). Even China and Russia are not completely Communist. but thats too far off topic.

What it really comes down to is sports. they are extremely important worldwide and especially in America. They will return sooner rather than later and there will be some negative effects from that choice. I am ok with that.
C
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Yes, it is a complicated subject. I realize that a great deal of socialism has crept into our political system most likely starting with FDR and perpetuated by LBJ among others. The manufacturing issue is so dangerous because the Chicoms subsidize (and own) most of their manufacturing which of course places our companies at a disadvantage. So many of these products affect our ability to defend ourselves including electronics and medicines both of which would be needed in a war. Anyway let's bring back manufacturing to the US and create jobs and GBO.
 
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#57
#57
The Original Fade said:
Roughly 20 to 30% of the average Joe walk in the street has antibodies to this virus, meaning that many have already been exposed and infected and have recovered without even knowing it. This also means that the percentage of people who get really sick and are hospitalized is minimal. You don’t wreck the economy for a small % of people who might get really sick.
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You've got some research to back up those numbers?

You still need 70-90% of the population to be immune to the virus to achieve 'herd immunity', that's a minimum of 229 million Americans infected to achieve it. If the mortality rate is at the low end of the spectrum, .12% (10 x seasonal influenza), that's ~276,000 deaths, on the low end of 70% , in order to achieve 'herd immunity, it if's even possible.

At the moment, we don't even know if those with antibodies, are safe from reinfection, how long, and whether or not they can get reinfected without showing symptoms and still pass the virus on to those who are not immune.
 
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#58
#58
BeardedVol said:
You've got some research to back up those numbers?

You still need 70-90% of the population to be immune to the virus to achieve 'herd immunity', that's a minimum of 229 million Americans infected to achieve it. If the mortality rate is at the low end of the spectrum, .12% (10 x seasonal influenza), that's ~276,000 deaths, on the low end of 70% , in order to achieve 'herd immunity, it if's even possible.

At the moment, we don't even know if those with antibodies, are safe from reinfection, how long, and whether or not they can get reinfected without showing symptoms and still pass the virus on to those who are not immune.
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There have been independent studies on the percent of people walking around with antibodies and it’s estimated to be somewhere around 20-30%. Even Fauci agrees with this. Your 12% mortality rate projection is flawed because you could achieve herd immunity while still quarantining the most vulnerable (elderly and those with comorbidities). If you did this the mortality rate would be much lower. You’re right, we don’t know how long people with antibodies will be protected from reinfection, but you would learn this as time goes on and adjust. If you enforce stay at home orders until a vaccine is available, then you‘re going to be at home until at least 2022. You prepared to do that? And even if a vaccine is developed, we don’t know for how long that vaccination lasts. The flu vaccine is one season, that’s it. WE CANNOT HIDE FOREVER. There will be risks no matter when we re-emerge. YOU CANT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE DISEASE
 
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#59
#59
norrislakevol said:
And they were just as unconstitutional then as they are now. Some federal courts are beginning to take notice too.
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I bet some are. Some prolly watch tv too. Some prolly drink. Your statement is very blanket good man. President has ability to declare himself more authority in times of crisis. So bye bye amendments. People created them and people can take away. Just saying things can change brother.
 
#60
#60
The Original Fade said:
Roughly 20 to 30% of the average Joe walk in the street has antibodies to this virus, meaning that many have already been exposed and infected and have recovered without even knowing it. This also means that the percentage of people who get really sick and are hospitalized is minimal. You don’t wreck the economy for a small % of people who might get really sick.
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Perfectly maga. Screw old folk. They gonna die so let them. I feel ya man. Hope you dont have your future determined by folks like you when your 70.
 
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#63
#63
The Original Fade said:
There have been independent studies on the percent of people walking around with antibodies and it’s estimated to be somewhere around 20-30%. Even Fauci agrees with this. Your 12% mortality rate projection is flawed because you could achieve herd immunity while still quarantining the most vulnerable (elderly and those with comorbidities). If you did this the mortality rate would be much lower. You’re right, we don’t know how long people with antibodies will be protected from reinfection, but you would learn this as time goes on and adjust. If you enforce stay at home orders until a vaccine is available, then you‘re going to be at home until at least 2022. You prepared to do that? And even if a vaccine is developed, we don’t know for how long that vaccination lasts. The flu vaccine is one season, that’s it. WE CANNOT HIDE FOREVER. There will be risks no matter when we re-emerge. YOU CANT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE DISEASE
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Which studies are these, please link them, and it's .12%, that's .0012 not 12% which is .12. That's an estimated 276,000 deaths to reach the bare minimum of 70% of the populace being infected and developing antibodies to create some measure of 'herd immunity'.
 
#64
#64
JohnWardForever said:
Killed more than What? "This v has already killed more people than we last in Vietnam". I'm having a tough time here. But let me add, The CDC is listing COV as the COD in cases where there was NO EVIDENCE of the Virus. So we don't really know the truth. Do a search if you don't believe it. Read the CDC directive.
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#65
#65
BeardedVol said:
Which studies are these, please link them, and it's .12%, that's .0012 not 12% which is .12. That's an estimated 276,000 deaths to reach the bare minimum of 70% of the populace being infected and developing antibodies to create some measure of 'herd immunity'.
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I’m not going to waste my time linking articles that you’ll only argue with instead of read. My question for you is - what’s your solution? Quarantine for 2 years?
 
#66
#66
The Original Fade said:
I had COVID-19 in March and have fully recovered. When I was diagnosed the Arkansas Health Department did a full contact tracing with me primarily focused on the 48 hours prior to my first symptom. It’s pretty much a known fact and you sir do not sound very well informed.
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I'm so glad you're feeling better.
 
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#67
#67
mercuryvol said:
Exactly correct, Fade. I got sick with the virus and three days later my nurse developed the same symptoms and tested positive followed one day later by my CMA turning positive. Presymptomatic transmission of virus is not a new concept. If I remember correctly you came down with COVID-19 as well. Hope you are recovered and doing well.
Click to expand...
Sorry to see you were sick as well. Glad you're feeling better.
 
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#69
#69
The Original Fade said:
There have been independent studies on the percent of people walking around with antibodies and it’s estimated to be somewhere around 20-30%. Even Fauci agrees with this. Your 12% mortality rate projection is flawed because you could achieve herd immunity while still quarantining the most vulnerable (elderly and those with comorbidities). If you did this the mortality rate would be much lower. You’re right, we don’t know how long people with antibodies will be protected from reinfection, but you would learn this as time goes on and adjust. If you enforce stay at home orders until a vaccine is available, then you‘re going to be at home until at least 2022. You prepared to do that? And even if a vaccine is developed, we don’t know for how long that vaccination lasts. The flu vaccine is one season, that’s it. WE CANNOT HIDE FOREVER. There will be risks no matter when we re-emerge. YOU CANT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE DISEASE
Click to expand...


I believe I read today somewhere that the South Koreans have announced that individuals that have fully recovered from COVID are not getting reinfected. I'll try to find the article.

Something interesting I learned is that when a virus mutates, it often becomes less lethal because it's sole purpose is to survive and spread.
 
#72
#72
Rememberthe1990s said:
Perfectly maga. Screw old folk. They gonna die so let them. I feel ya man. Hope you dont have your future determined by folks like you when your 70.
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It's not MAGA. You know the country the progressives like to worship, Sweden, has not shut their economy down. They advised those who are vulnerable to shelter. Everyone else goes to work. Seems to be working out fine for them. Even the Chinese azz kissers WHO endorses this model. Herd immunity. The more people who develop anti bodies the safer at risk people are because you have less carriers out there.
 
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#73
#73
Rememberthe1990s said:
I bet some are. Some prolly watch tv too. Some prolly drink. Your statement is very blanket good man. President has ability to declare himself more authority in times of crisis. So bye bye amendments. People created them and people can take away. Just saying things can change brother.
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They can try to. You watch. There will be a log jam of cases in federal court over this. In some states if this BS lasts too long some businesses will just open anyways not caring about what the government wants. Already is happening in Maine.
 
#75
#75
The Original Fade said:
Roughly 20 to 30% of the average Joe walk in the street has antibodies to this virus, meaning that many have already been exposed and infected and have recovered without even knowing it. This also means that the percentage of people who get really sick and are hospitalized is minimal. You don’t wreck the economy for a small % of people who might get really sick.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That means that 70-80 percent do not have antibodies and no one knows how long these antibodies will protect them from reinfection. Herd immunity requires almost 90 percent of the population to have working antibodies. Thanks for making my point.
 
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