Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

#29,076
#29,076
1972 Grad said:
No offense, but you don't understand the game beyond hacker level.
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So you are saying it's a professional strategy where you will use more strokes than necessary to make a hole on purpose? As a general all around strategy.

If that's the case then I will agree I dont understand the game.

Unless you have specifics I am going to say you dont have an argument beyond the hacker level either.
 
#29,077
#29,077
LouderVol said:
Momentum is a part of anything. And you are arguing against yourself. Is it you vs the course, or you vs the players?

Golf is just different that you cant do anything about another guys momentum but continue to do the only thing you are allowed to do, play your game.
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You can stop the other guy's momentum by getting in his head by executing at the right time. It has happened countless times. That is how Nicklaus and Woods won so many major golf tournaments. Championship golf is you against yourself, the golf course, and other players.

Hey, I don't understand soccer, so I don't talk about it. You don't understand the strategy of hitting your tee shot to a certain side of the fairway to make it easier to hit your second shot to a certain area of the green, in order to set up an easier putt. Sometimes it's best to have a 25 foot uphill putt than a 12 foot downhill putt. Sometimes, it's better to try to hold a fade against a right to left breeze than to ride the wind with a high draw. Sometimes, it's better to play away from a certain pin position , even if it means you have a 50 foot chip shot, but you avoid the short side pin.

ALL sports are stupid games. Some require more thinking, some more athletic ability, some more endurance, etc. Championship golf is played on a 6 inch wide golf course between your ears.
 
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#29,078
#29,078
McDad said:
Outbid on the BMW X6. :(

I refuse to spend 20k on a car, put 7k of parts into it and my labor when the car will only be worth 30k after all repairs are done. I'd rather buy off a lot and not have to fool with the repairs.
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I knew I would get it.
 
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#29,079
#29,079
LouderVol said:
So you are saying it's a professional strategy where you will use more strokes than necessary to make a hole on purpose? As a general all around strategy.

If that's the case then I will agree I dont understand the game.

Unless you have specifics I am going to say you dont have an argument beyond the hacker level either.
Click to expand...
I won't try to discuss architecture with you because I don't know anything about it.
 
#29,081
#29,081
1972 Grad said:
You can stop the other guy's momentum by getting in his head by executing at the right time. It has happened countless times. That is how Nicklaus and Woods won so many major golf tournaments. Championship golf is you against yourself, the golf course, and other players.

Hey, I don't understand soccer, so I don't talk about it. You don't understand the strategy of hitting your tee shot to a certain side of the fairway to make it easier to hit your second shot to a certain area of the green, in order to set up an easier putt. Sometimes it's best to have a 25 foot uphill putt than a 12 foot downhill putt. Sometimes, it's better to try to hold a fade against a right to left breeze than to ride the wind with a high draw. Sometimes, it's better to play away from a certain pin position , even if it means you have a 50 foot chip shot, but you avoid the short side pin.

ALL sports are stupid games. Some require more thinking, some more athletic ability, some more endurance, etc. Championship golf is played on a 6 inch wide golf course between your ears.
Click to expand...
That's just the course management side of things.

There's also the whole aspect of short game. Bump-n-run chip shots when you have more green to work with versus higher and softer shots that stick faster with limited green to work with. Also, you might have plenty of green to work with but still need a higher, softer shot due to a severe downslope.

Also, actually executing those shots and the kind of precision in the impact zone that is required makes these type shots really difficult.

There's the whole aspect of bunker play as well. For a short bunker shot, I might blast a sand-wedge. If I need to clear a lip, I might attempt a 60 degree lob wedge. However, if I need 50+ yards of distance, I'll pick a Gap wedge out of the sand. This only takes into account distance. However, if I take into account green contours, the lie (which could be upsloping, downsloping, fried egg, etc), and the wind all of this could change.

Basically there are enormous amount of variables in any golf shot.
 
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#29,082
#29,082
My biggest problem with professional golf (really it is more a gripe with the media) is this desire to anoint someone the best ever. Like has been stated, it is mostly the player against the course. But..... in order to win a tournament you have to shoot a lower score than everyone else on that day. A 1 over par 287 might win you a tournament today, but next year it might take 5 under. And then there's the technology aspect. Fairway bunkers that were a hazard for the likes of Nicklaus and Trevino are mere landscaping today. If you don't hit the sweet spot on a blade weighted club, you don't get the best shot. These perimeter weighted clubs... matched by the sponsors to the player have upped the average length of pretty much everybody on the tour. So taking the first part of my position into account (competition that week) versus technology, how can you compare golfers of the 60s-70s to today's? And then there's the money. Back in the day, Palmer and those guys had to grind every week to make their mortgage payments. Tiger was a gazillionaire before he stuck his first tee in the ground as a pro. So he didn't get beat up by the grind of week in week out tournaments/travel, etc... Tiger had an amazing run. He also had no competition. Now go back and look at the courses. In how many of his wins did he set course records? He beat his competition in those weeks. He did not beat the course (with the exception of Augusta). And my last point is that these courses are far too easy. If they are shooting under par, the course needs to be harder. If they are in the rough, they should be punished. They are pros. They should hit it in the fairway. Every time.... but the problem is that the public wants to see big drives. Last I checked, it was a skill game. Big drives that go who knows where is not skill. Driver, wedge, putter is insulting to the game. The US Open year in and year out is the only true test.

Fire away.
 
#29,083
#29,083
SpaceCoastVol said:
My biggest problem with professional golf (really it is more a gripe with the media) is this desire to anoint someone the best ever. Like has been stated, it is mostly the player against the course. But..... in order to win a tournament you have to shoot a lower score than everyone else on that day. A 1 over par 287 might win you a tournament today, but next year it might take 5 under. And then there's the technology aspect. Fairway bunkers that were a hazard for the likes of Nicklaus and Trevino are mere landscaping today. If you don't hit the sweet spot on a blade weighted club, you don't get the best shot. These perimeter weighted clubs... matched by the sponsors to the player have upped the average length of pretty much everybody on the tour. So taking the first part of my position into account (competition that week) versus technology, how can you compare golfers of the 60s-70s to today's? And then there's the money. Back in the day, Palmer and those guys had to grind every week to make their mortgage payments. Tiger was a gazillionaire before he stuck his first tee in the ground as a pro. So he didn't get beat up by the grind of week in week out tournaments/travel, etc... Tiger had an amazing run. He also had no competition. Now go back and look at the courses. In how many of his wins did he set course records? He beat his competition in those weeks. He did not beat the course (with the exception of Augusta). And my last point is that these courses are far too easy. If they are shooting under par, the course needs to be harder. If they are in the rough, they should be punished. They are pros. They should hit it in the fairway. Every time.... but the problem is that the public wants to see big drives. Last I checked, it was a skill game. Big drives that go who knows where is not skill. Driver, wedge, putter is insulting to the game. The US Open year in and year out is the only true test.

Fire away.
Click to expand...

The best thing about golf is Caddyshack.
 
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#29,084
#29,084
SpaceCoastVol said:
My biggest problem with professional golf (really it is more a gripe with the media) is this desire to anoint someone the best ever. Like has been stated, it is mostly the player against the course. But..... in order to win a tournament you have to shoot a lower score than everyone else on that day. A 1 over par 287 might win you a tournament today, but next year it might take 5 under. And then there's the technology aspect. Fairway bunkers that were a hazard for the likes of Nicklaus and Trevino are mere landscaping today. If you don't hit the sweet spot on a blade weighted club, you don't get the best shot. These perimeter weighted clubs... matched by the sponsors to the player have upped the average length of pretty much everybody on the tour. So taking the first part of my position into account (competition that week) versus technology, how can you compare golfers of the 60s-70s to today's? And then there's the money. Back in the day, Palmer and those guys had to grind every week to make their mortgage payments. Tiger was a gazillionaire before he stuck his first tee in the ground as a pro. So he didn't get beat up by the grind of week in week out tournaments/travel, etc... Tiger had an amazing run. He also had no competition. Now go back and look at the courses. In how many of his wins did he set course records? He beat his competition in those weeks. He did not beat the course (with the exception of Augusta). And my last point is that these courses are far too easy. If they are shooting under par, the course needs to be harder. If they are in the rough, they should be punished. They are pros. They should hit it in the fairway. Every time.... but the problem is that the public wants to see big drives. Last I checked, it was a skill game. Big drives that go who knows where is not skill. Driver, wedge, putter is insulting to the game. The US Open year in and year out is the only true test.

Fire away.
Click to expand...

I love it when the rough is penalty thick, the greens are greased, a bunkered shot is a real penalty (The Open style) and the result is around Even par. I like a drivable Par 4 like at Riviera which dictates tee strategy. Frankly, I like to watch a Pro struggle with difficult lies and see if they can pull it off rather than pin seeking every shot.
 
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#29,085
#29,085
SpaceCoastVol said:
My biggest problem with professional golf (really it is more a gripe with the media) is this desire to anoint someone the best ever. Like has been stated, it is mostly the player against the course. But..... in order to win a tournament you have to shoot a lower score than everyone else on that day. A 1over par 287 might win you a tournament today, but next year it might take 5 under. And then there's the technology aspect. Fairway bunkers that were a hazard for the likes of Nicklaus and Trevino are mere landscaping today. If you don't hit the sweet spot on a blade weighted club, you don't get the best shot. These perimeter weighted clubs... matched by the sponsors to the player have upped the average length of pretty much everybody on the tour. So taking the first part of my position into account (competition that week) versus technology, how can you compare golfers of the 60s-70s to today's? And then there's the money. Back in the day, Palmer and those guys had to grind every week to make their mortgage payments. Tiger was a gazillionaire before he stuck his first tee in the ground as a pro. So he didn't get beat up by the grind of week in week out tournaments/travel, etc... Tiger had an amazing run. He also had no competition. Now go back and look at the courses. In how many of his wins did he set course records? He beat his competition in those weeks. He did not beat the course (with the exception of Augusta). And my last point is that these courses are far too easy. If they are shooting under par, the course needs to be harder. If they are in the rough, they should be punished. They are pros. They should hit it in the fairway. Every time.... but the problem is that the public wants to see big drives. Last I checked, it was a skill game. Big drives that go who knows where is not skill. Driver, wedge, putter is insulting to the game. The US Open year in and year out is the only true test.

Fire away.
Click to expand...
The game has changed for the worse, along with football, baseball, NASCAR, basketball, etc. By the way, you are going to have to play a tournament on more than one course for 287 to be 1 over par.
 
#29,086
#29,086
McDad said:
I'm sitting pretty on the BMW X6. It's in pre sale. I am top bid right now. Auction begins in 2 hours 15 minutes. Fingers crossed.
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A buddy of mine had a BMW and still refers to it as his $1,000 car..... every time something had to be fixed it was at least a $1,000
 
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#29,088
#29,088
Carl Pickens said:
I don’t know about the order, but I’ll add swimmers and water polo players
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Forgot about water polo, that's a physically demanding sport.

Best Ranger Competition is another that probably demands more than any of the sports discussed.
 
#29,090
#29,090
Carl Pickens said:
I don’t know about the order, but I’ll add swimmers and water polo players
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Swimming is a very physical sport, as far as conditioning. My 2 youngest are on 2 swim teams, and their practices blow my mind. They both also have abs like crazy. Makes me mad😄.
 
#29,091
#29,091
1972 Grad said:
You can stop the other guy's momentum by getting in his head by executing at the right time. It has happened countless times. That is how Nicklaus and Woods won so many major golf tournaments. Championship golf is you against yourself, the golf course, and other players.

Hey, I don't understand soccer, so I don't talk about it. You don't understand the strategy of hitting your tee shot to a certain side of the fairway to make it easier to hit your second shot to a certain area of the green, in order to set up an easier putt. Sometimes it's best to have a 25 foot uphill putt than a 12 foot downhill putt. Sometimes, it's better to try to hold a fade against a right to left breeze than to ride the wind with a high draw. Sometimes, it's better to play away from a certain pin position , even if it means you have a 50 foot chip shot, but you avoid the short side pin.

ALL sports are stupid games. Some require more thinking, some more athletic ability, some more endurance, etc. Championship golf is played on a 6 inch wide golf course between your ears.
Click to expand...
No I understand the logistics of some shots being nicer. Which is why I have continued to say you play your game. You play it to get to the hole in the fewest number of strokes. Doesnt always mean the longest ball wins, and I never implied as much. The lack of strategy comes from not having to make tactical adjustments due to the other player.

You arent going to play a hole differently because you are playing a Tiger or Nicklaus. Theres no prevent defense making you play short, or full court pressure changing your pace, a volley off of a back or fore hand, which iron your opponent uses to hit the ball doesnt effect you. Those are the type of adjustments I am talking about. That's the lack of competition.
 
#29,093
#29,093
LouderVol said:
No I understand the logistics of some shots being nicer. Which is why I have continued to say you play your game. You play it to get to the hole in the fewest number of strokes. Doesnt always mean the longest ball wins, and I never implied as much. The lack of strategy comes from not having to make tactical adjustments due to the other player.

You arent going to play a hole differently because you are playing a Tiger or Nicklaus. Theres no prevent defense making you play short, or full court pressure changing your pace, a volley off of a back or fore hand, which iron your opponent uses to hit the ball doesnt effect you. Those are the type of adjustments I am talking about. That's the lack of competition.
Click to expand...

You sure may play the last few holes differently depending on your opponent when you know he doesn't beat himself, like Tiger and Nicklaus didn't.

Players or caddies do look in other players' bags to see what club they hit. Sam Snead used to use more club than normal to mess up his opponent's club choice.

Ask any pro who has played with J.B. Holmes, Jonathan Byrd, Ben Crane, Jim Furyk, Jesper Parnevilk , or Bernhard Langer if they can play the pace of play that they would prefer.
 
#29,094
#29,094
Matt2496 said:
That's just the course management side of things.

There's also the whole aspect of short game. Bump-n-run chip shots when you have more green to work with versus higher and softer shots that stick faster with limited green to work with. Also, you might have plenty of green to work with but still need a higher, softer shot due to a severe downslope.

Also, actually executing those shots and the kind of precision in the impact zone that is required makes these type shots really difficult.

There's the whole aspect of bunker play as well. For a short bunker shot, I might blast a sand-wedge. If I need to clear a lip, I might attempt a 60 degree lob wedge. However, if I need 50+ yards of distance, I'll pick a Gap wedge out of the sand. This only takes into account distance. However, if I take into account green contours, the lie (which could be upsloping, downsloping, fried egg, etc), and the wind all of this could change.

Basically there are enormous amount of variables in any golf shot.
Click to expand...
Every. Single. Event. Has. Those. Intracies.

The difference is the competition. Where is the source of competition? What is making you change your game? It's not competition to play the same hole as the other guy with a separate ball, separate clubs, and separate times.

Playing vs yourself is practice. Putting that practice into practice against others is competition. Where the other player has just as much of an impact on your outcome as you do. Which is why I keep saying it's not a sport. Great thing to do and stay active and have fun, and work on skills. Etc. But without direct competition it's just that a game.
 
#29,095
#29,095
LouderVol said:
Every. Single. Event. Has. Those. Intracies.

The difference is the competition. Where is the source of competition? What is making you change your game? It's not competition to play the same hole as the other guy with a separate ball, separate clubs, and separate times.

Playing vs yourself is practice. Putting that practice into practice against others is competition. Where the other player has just as much of an impact on your outcome as you do. Which is why I keep saying it's not a sport. Great thing to do and stay active and have fun, and work on skills. Etc. But without direct competition it's just that a game.
Click to expand...
Give it up. You don't understand it well enough.
 
#29,097
#29,097
1972 Grad said:
You sure may play the last few holes differently depending on your opponent when you know he doesn't beat himself, like Tiger and Nicklaus didn't.

Players or caddies do look in other players' bags to see what club they hit. Sam Snead used to use more club than normal to mess up his opponent's club choice.

Ask any pro who has played with J.B. Holmes, Jonathan Byrd, Ben Crane, Jim Furyk, Jesper Parnevilk , or Bernhard Langer if they can play the pace of play that they would prefer.
Click to expand...
I guess I dont get the logic of changing your style because of what someone else does when it doesnt impact you. It's not like Tiger or Nick can stand in your way to make you physically change your shot. They cant even hassles you.

I guess I just have a higher standard of what impacts a game, which is why I have a low view of golf. If you play a game you learn pretty quickly who is better than you and unless you are the best you get used to not being the most talented guy out there and it doesnt effect your play.
 
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