Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[Weezer]

Even if he did. The mandated order shouldn't exist.

A recommendation, sure. Should we sit at home? If you want. But again, I refer anyone back to the Patriot Act. Almost 19 years later, here we are.

But also, if people made a choice based on falsehoods, that should be considered.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Idk it seems like public safety tends to win out over 1st amendment rights, ie you have freedom of speech until you shout fire in a crowded theater type of cliche.

FYI, “Can’t shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater,” didn’t carry any legal weight in 1919 when it was written, and it certainly doesn’t now.

I realize it’s the first thing that pops out of people’s mouths when they’re inconvenienced by the 1st Amendment, but it’s legally meaningless and a terrible analogy for explaining current 1st Amendment jurisprudence.

 

[jakez4ut]

Tifwiw, a couple of legal minds weighing in

to me, this is really all it boils down to:

Of course, if the regulations go on too long or the size of assemblies is reduced to an absurd level, it will become easy for judges to rule that the ban is too stringent. It is anyone's guess just where those lines might be drawn.

safe to say, the lines would get drawn.....

i think for the most part there's a satisfaction that the situation dictating these measures passes the "strict/narrow/tailored purpose" part...that being: stop the spread, prevent as many from infection as possible, limit the # of deaths as a result of infection...

the scrutiny part? subjective. but i'd argue that up to this point, they've followed "the steps". self quarantine...opt 1.....that didn't really take outisde the sports industry taking it upon themselves to shut down, so, state/local authorities excercise powers available to them, and schools beging to close, forcing many to have to stay home, w/out actually "making them"(this is me lol)....and now we're in to a 3rd phase with the shelter in place orders, mandatory quarantine, and most social functions put on hold indefinitley....hopefully it doesn't get to the point where there's martial law.....but i think the level at which our fundamental rights get pushed, really kind of depends on how we deal with the present situation. and dummies holding church service in defiance of their rights being infringed upon, is incredibly tone deaf, and not productive to the ACTUAL purpose of all these steps we've taken up to this point........mentioned above.

so anyway, it's not like they cannonballed in to the deep end of the pool here....they didn't start with "strict scrutinty".....they dipped their toes in, waded around for a bit, but ultimately....here we are.....here's to hoping it doesn't have to go any further.

and remember...we don't want to have to do this again later in the year. so let's get this thing knocked out as soon as we can, with only 1 of these "shut downs".........even if that means it has to be extended...i'd rather get it done in one shot.....

be good people.

 

[butchna]

Plenty of blood has been spilled over those rights throughout history.

Wanna cut yourself...do it in a tent, away from my family.

 

[Weezer]

Wanna cut yourself...do it in a tent, away from my family.

Pretty sure you know what I meant. But if you want to lock your family away, that's your choice. And it's probably a wise decision. But it shouldn't be government mandated.

 

[butchna]

FYI, “Can’t shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater,” didn’t carry any legal weight in 1919 when it was written, and it certainly doesn’t now.

I realize it’s the first thing that pops out of people’s mouths when they’re inconvenienced by the 1st Amendment, but it’s legally meaningless and a terrible analogy for explaining current 1st Amendment jurisprudence.

Guess those no-fly lists aren’t legal. Everybody submit your favorite “I have a bomb!” joke.

 

[butchna]

Pretty sure you know what I meant. But if you want to lock your family away, that's your choice. And it's probably a wise decision. But it shouldn't be government mandated.

Yes it should. The common welfare is their domain.

 

[Weezer]

Guess those no-fly lists aren’t legal. Everybody submit your favorite “I have a bomb!” joke.

Flying isn't a right, last I checked.

 

[Jimmy Football]

Guess those no-fly lists aren’t legal. Everybody submit your favorite “I have a bomb!” joke.

Their legality doesn’t hinge on a piece of dictum written by Justice Holmes early last century.

 

[Weezer]

Yes it should. The common welfare is their domain.

And when "the common welfare" results in them taking more of your choices away from you? What then? I'm sure the King of England and Parliament thought their decisions regarding the colonies were about the common welfare. That's a very slippery slope.

 

[jakez4ut]

Even if he did. The mandated order shouldn't exist.

A recommendation, sure. Should we sit at home? If you want. But again, I refer anyone back to the Patriot Act. Almost 19 years later, here we are.

And I tend to agree. It should be a recommendation, and it would be smart to follow said recommendation. I think mandating it is overstepping.

see exhibit A, minister in Tampa, as to why 'suggestions' aren't working. (or spring breakers in FL, or party goers in NJ etc....

what's the goal? stop the spread of this thing, or not to offend people? lol.

it's people's inability to manage this themselves, that requires intervention....it's like leaving your kids at home for the weekend....you should be able to do that, they know the rules, they know what to do, not to do...but they just can't help themselves....can they? so, that's why Aunt Mimi has to drive in to town and stay with them for the weekend, making them do arts and crafts...so when we get back, the house is still standing.............

i want this thing done. and knuckleheads doing knucklehead things are infringing on my opportunity for that to happen.

 

[bignewt]

I have a right to Taco Tuesday I know that much!

 

[Weezer]

Yes it should. The common welfare is their domain.

I'm also sure Hitler justified rounding up Jews as serving "the common welfare".

 

[vol9799]

Yes it should. The common welfare is their domain.

The common welfare of a person in rural ETN and the common welfare of a person in NYC do not require the same level of "protection" from this virus. Mandates cater to the lowest common denominator, especially when enacted over giants sections of a populous indiscriminately. So a bunch of folks would disagree with your assertion that the federal (sometimes even the state) governments are providing for their common welfare.

These mandates are just one more example of punishing the innocent to protect the guilty from an individual rights perspective.

 

[Weezer]

see exhibit A, minister in Tampa, as to why 'suggestions' aren't working. (or spring breakers in FL, or party goers in NJ etc....

what's the goal? stop the spread of this thing, or not to offend people? lol.

it's people's inability to manage this themselves, that requires intervention....it's like leaving your kids at home for the weekend....you should be able to do that, they know the rules, they know what to do, not to do...but they just can't help themselves....can they? so, that's why Aunt Mimi has to drive in to town and stay with them for the weekend, making them do arts and crafts...so when we get back, the house is still standing.............

i want this thing done. and knuckleheads doing knucklehead things are infringing on my opportunity for that to happen.

The government isn't our parent, nor should they be. If you want to isolate, by all means, isolate. It's a wise decision to do so. I won't disagree with you on that. That still doesn't justify the government mandating it.

 

[jakez4ut]

I'm also sure Hitler justified rounding up Jews as serving "the common welfare".

hyperbole.........................................................................................................................................................................yep. i'm sure of it.

 

[Weezer]

hyperbole.........................................................................................................................................................................yep. i'm sure of it.

Sure, but do you think most Germans foresaw what they would become? People want to think "that could never happen here". I tend to think the Germans most likely thought that as well. If we don't stand up for our rights ourselves, no one else will do it for us.

 

[butchna]

I'm also sure Hitler justified rounding up Jews as serving "the common welfare".

If that’s your go to example? Guess we could never find an example of insane monsters dispensing poison Kool-Aid to the masses because the government was intruding in their business?

 

[jakez4ut]

The government isn't our parent, nor should they be. If you want to isolate, by all means, isolate. It's a wise decision to do so. I won't disagree with you on that. That still doesn't justify the government mandating it.

k.

then what happens when this thing doesn't ever settle down, it continues to spread, and the worst case scenarios folks are so worried about, actually start to play out?

"people" are dumb. i don't trust people. i trust people less than i trust the government. so in these most extreme of circumstances, yeah, i'm cool with local black and whites keeping the crazy at several arms length..................

what that guy did in Tamp was dumb and irresponsible. he put people in harms way, and for that..............i really don't care if you're (i mean the general you're, not you specifically necessarily lol) upset someone chose differently for him.....i say "good call".

this thing needs to end as quickly as possible, and if left up to "people"......well, that just ain't happening.

 

[butchna]

Sure, but do you think most Germans foresaw what they would become? People want to think "that could never happen here". I tend to think the Germans most likely thought that as well. If we don't stand up for our rights ourselves, no one else will do it for us.

You have the right to jump into a fire...you don’t have the right to drag others with you.

 

[jakez4ut]

The common welfare of a person in rural ETN and the common welfare of a person in NYC do not require the same level of "protection" from this virus. Mandates cater to the lowest common denominator, especially when enacted over giants sections of a populous indiscriminately. So a bunch of folks would disagree with your assertion that the federal (sometimes even the state) governments are providing for their common welfare.

These mandates are just one more example of punishing the innocent to protect the guilty from an individual rights perspective.

i would imagine that w/or w/out these mandates, lifestyle probably doesn't change much for folks in really rural areas. and that's not an indictment of that lifestyle...just an acknowledgement of the big differences in the two demographics.

 

[butchna]

And when "the common welfare" results in them taking more of your choices away from you? What then? I'm sure the King of England and Parliament thought their decisions regarding the colonies were about the common welfare. That's a very slippery slope.

No...it was about money. We fought for our freedom to tax ourselves.

 

[Weezer]

I think some of you are choosing to ignore the slippery slope we've stumbled upon. An overreaching government can be dangerous and oppressive, and is something our FFs fought against.

 

[Weezer]

No...it was about money. We fought for our freedom to tax ourselves.

We fought to be independent, because we did not want to be ruled over.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Hey fellas, what’s g...