Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#13,829
#13,829
Here’s my pondering today...🤔

Why are we bailing out businesses without first having their executives forfeit remaining annual salaries back into the business along with some % of shareholder dividend payouts based on holdings? If those exec types haven’t the acumen to save any of their multi million monthly paychecks to personally survive to the end of the year why are they in charge of huge businesses?
Yes, your business income has reduced but you also just cut operating expenses via layoffs, groundings, dockings and physical closures, etc. Red on your books now is going to offset income at tax time next year and if you’ve been operating in the red as a standard m/o why does your dumbass still have a ginormous salaried job?
 
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#13,830
#13,830
sjt18 said:
I'm not totally up on Italy but they have not handled it well. My understanding is that the outbreak (like the more deadly one in China) occurred in a densely populated area which made the spread exponential.

They also have a single payer/socialized system. That frequently means a shortage of resources and poor quality of care.

Just a glance at wikipedia's daily update seems to suggest countries with high population densities or having cities with high population densities are doing on the whole much worse.
Click to expand...
Your comments about their healthcare are complete nonsense. The United States has the worst quality of healthcare of all first world countries. We rank around number 33 Wich is well behind every country with single payer healthcare. If they had our system the problem would have been 100 times worse because people would be too scared to go to the doctor for fear of the cost!
 
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#13,831
#13,831
Letting young healthy people contract this virus and continually build immunity in the population as a whole could have the ability to help those that are at risk.

Herd immunity - Wikipedia

While it goes against “flattening the curve” it could still be just as effective. There will be shock at first with the numbers infected and killed but the death toll has the potential to be comparable if not better than social distancing, just over a shorter timeline. Rip the bandaid off all at once.

Thoughts?
 
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#13,832
#13,832
rjd970 said:
Letting young healthy people contract this virus and continually build immunity in the population as a whole could have the ability to help those that are at risk.

Herd immunity - Wikipedia

While it goes against “flattening the curve” it could still be just as effective. There will be shock at first with the numbers infected and killed but the death toll has the potential to be comparable if not better than social distancing, just over a shorter timeline. Rip the bandaid off all at once.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
That was going to be England’s approach. Then the scientists gave Boris the estimates and he said screw that.
 
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#13,833
#13,833
DynaLo said:
Here’s my pondering today...🤔

Why are we bailing out businesses without first having their executives forfeit remaining annual salaries back into the business along with some % of shareholder dividend payouts based on holdings? If those exec types haven’t the acumen to save any of their multi million monthly paychecks to personally survive to the end of the year why are they in charge of huge businesses?
Yes, your business income has reduced but you also just cut operating expenses via layoffs, groundings, dockings and physical closures, etc. Red on your books now is going to offset income at tax time next year and if you’ve been operating in the red as a standard m/o why does your dumbass still have a ginormous salaried job?
Click to expand...
I'm going to be a letter writing machine if companies get bailed out without wiping out their shareholders first.
 
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#13,834
#13,834
C-south said:
I’m pretty sure you can already borrow from your 401k without penalty if you pay it back within 5 years.
Click to expand...

Should be no penalty, no payback required on that max of a $1000 taken during this emergency declaration time frame.

Some would take it, some wouldn’t and some would just find mental comfort in knowing it’s available if required.
 
#13,835
#13,835
volfanhill said:
That was going to be England’s approach. Then the scientists gave Boris the estimates and he said screw that.
Click to expand...

I think the UK thought (and maybe continues to think) that it'll be worse in the fall, so it was better to have a good portion of the population with the immunity already. But having the deaths of a few hundred thousand rightly didn't sit well with Boris.
 
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#13,837
#13,837
evillawyer said:
I think the UK thought (and maybe continues to think) that it'll be worse in the fall, so it was better to have a good portion of the population with the immunity already. But having the deaths of a few hundred thousand rightly didn't sit well with Boris.
Click to expand...
There is something to that thought process. The Spanish Flu was far worse on round 2. God help us that this isn’t the case with this mfer.
 
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#13,839
#13,839
VolStrom said:
I'm going to be a letter writing machine if companies get bailed out without wiping out their shareholders first.
Click to expand...

My thought on the sliding percentage based on stock holdings was just so the large stake holders bore the brunt and the real small folks still made a few nickels.
 
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#13,840
#13,840
DynaLo said:
Here’s my pondering today...🤔

Why are we bailing out businesses without first having their executives forfeit remaining annual salaries back into the business along with some % of shareholder dividend payouts based on holdings? If those exec types haven’t the acumen to save any of their multi million monthly paychecks to personally survive to the end of the year why are they in charge of huge businesses?
Yes, your business income has reduced but you also just cut operating expenses via layoffs, groundings, dockings and physical closures, etc. Red on your books now is going to offset income at tax time next year and if you’ve been operating in the red as a standard m/o why does your dumbass still have a ginormous salaried job?
Click to expand...
These are the types being bailed out. There was no planning like regular citizens had to do it was just the belief that the good times never end

In 2014, having reduced competition through mergers and raised billions of dollars in new baggage-fee revenue, American began reaching stunning levels of financial success. In 2015, it posted a $7.6 billion profit — compared, for example, to profits of about $500 million in 2007 and less than $250 million in 2006. It would continue to earn billions in profit annually for the rest of the decade. “I don’t think we’re ever going to lose money again,” the company’s chief executive, Doug Parker, said in 2017.
Click to expand...
 
#13,842
#13,842
rjd970 said:
Interesting. I have to wonder if social distancing drags this out longer and has greater economic impact with comparable infected and death tolls to herd immunity.
Click to expand...

Have they even been able to definitively determine that immunity comes with recovery?

There were questions coming out of China questioning that immunity, but that could possibly be attributed to false test results showing as reinfections when they were actually still shedding the original infection as it appears to take a while to totally clear this virus.
 
#13,845
#13,845
Boogievol said:
Your comments about their healthcare are complete nonsense. The United States has the worst quality of healthcare of all first world countries. We rank around number 33 Wich is well behind every country with single payer healthcare. If they had our system the problem would have been 100 times worse because people would be too scared to go to the doctor for fear of the cost!
Click to expand...
Some truth here but we dont need social medicine to fix our problems imo. Our out of control greed and red tape caused by insurance companies and other interests fighting over pieces of the pie could be mitigated legislatively if we had elected officials with priciples. JMO

Sorry a bit strong for this format
 
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#13,846
#13,846
utvolpj said:
These are the types being bailed out. There was no planning like regular citizens had to do it was just the belief that the good times never end
Click to expand...

Ugh..pet peeve... it just irritates me to no end to watch small mom and pop businesses that give a damn have to stop taking their own personal payroll to make sure their employees get paid while mega businesses just grab the government teet with no salary sacrifices first required. And don’t even get me rolling on asinine bonuses and parachutes and then open palming the government for help.🤬🤯
 
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#13,850
#13,850
DynaLo said:
Have they even been able to definitively determine that immunity comes with recovery?

There were questions coming out of China questioning that immunity, but that could possibly be attributed to false test results showing as reinfections when they were actually still shedding the original infection as it appears to take a while to totally clear this virus.
Click to expand...

If immunity doesn’t come with recovery then this is here to stay. Like a cold. Or the Flu. Or pneumonia. Given we’ve been told that this is far worse than the flu, we’re all ******?

....or, we could just let this play out and let young healthy people contract it and quarantine old, at risk, and caretakers. Quarantining flattens the curve, but it won’t get rid of it completely without vaccines or immunity.

Something has got to give. I feel like what we are going now is a stop gap, and it can’t last forever.

If numbers are really decreasing rapidly in China it has to be the quarantining, immunity build up, or a vaccine. The first isn’t sustainable. This may end up like pneumonia, at risk and caretakers take precautions, but the rest of us live on like we normally would.
 
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