2020 Primaries

#5,177
#5,177
OHvol40 said:
It took us 150 years to give women the right the vote... forgive my skepticism that small population states will willingly give up their undeserved disproportionate influence on presidential elections.
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It’s been >150 years since the emancipation proclamation, but that hasn’t stopped democrats from refusing to relinquish blacks from the plantation.
 
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#5,178
#5,178
OHvol40 said:
you beg me to define fairness and then discount a generic definition because you don’t like it. Lol good lord you’re disingenuous.
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Disingenuous? I gave you the first definition Oxford lists, which goes to show that your application isn't so easily applied. I think you're the new king of missing the point, as well as the reigning champion of ignoring them.

And I didn't ask you to define fairness. I asked you to base it in a common foundation of justice--i.e. right and wrong. You can't just claim that one-person-one-vote is the only appropriate (another definition of "fair", and one you used by the way) way of doing this without rationally showing that to be the case.

That's why I've repeatedly shown you the exceptions to your rule of appropriate behavior. It's proof that you haven't proven anything and you can't just throw it out there as some self-defined axiomatic truth. The fact that you've refused to respond to those points is indicative that you're either ignorant or not interested in intellectually honest discussion.
 
#5,182
#5,182
OHvol40 said:
What basis to you keep evoking emotion? We literally run every election in the country by popular vote, that’s not emotion, it’s a fact. If nothing else the people who fight tooth and nail for the EC are motivated by emotion. They’re fearful that most Americans don’t agree with them and prefer to tip the scales in their favor.

Just keep repeating the same thing and side-stepping the issue. I’m sure you’ll convince someone you’re right.
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This makes no sense. I would guess most people who support the EC are traditionalists. It's not based on emotion. It's based on this is the system called for in the Constitution, created by our FFs, in a process considered fair to the states. The emotion comes from those wanting the popular vote to mean something because it would have allowed Hillary to win. If Trump had won the popular, and Hillary the EC, you would not be on here posting about how unfair the EC is. That's emotion. Wanting the process to remain the same is tradition.
 
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#5,186
#5,186
Weezer said:
This makes no sense. I would guess most people who support the EC are traditionalists. It's not based on emotion. It's based on this is the system called for in the Constitution, created by our FFs, in a process considered fair to the states. The emotion comes from those wanting the popular vote to mean something because it would have allowed Hillary to win. If Trump had won the popular, and Hillary the EC, you would not be on here posting about how unfair the EC is. That's emotion. Wanting the process to remain the same is tradition.
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We also have a tradition of deciding elections by popular vote... like, all of them, everywhere, all the time. All except one.

It’s funny to invoke tradition in this instance, because I’m 100% positive tradition is not a motivator for keeping the EC, winning is.

I posted a nice little quote earlier from Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest thinkers amongst the founding fathers. You should check that out if you haven’t.
 
#5,187
#5,187
OHvol40 said:
We also have a tradition of deciding elections by popular vote... like, all of them, everywhere, all the time. All except one.

It’s funny to invoke tradition in this instance, because I’m 100% positive tradition is not a motivator for keeping the EC, winning is.

I posted a nice little quote earlier from Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest thinkers amongst the founding fathers. You should check that out if you haven’t.
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And if 60% of the population voted for Trump you’d want to go back to the EC.
 
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#5,188
#5,188
OHvol40 said:
Common definition of fair (can’t believe I have to hold your hand through this concept, I feel like a grade school teacher): lack of favoritism toward one side or the other.
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And how exactly does popular vote make it "fair" to smaller states? The larger states would get favored due to sheer size and the needs and desires of the smaller states would take a backseat to theirs. So hold my hand and explain to me how that's "fair". It's not, and the FFs recognized that.

When this country was founded, the emphasis was on the individual states, and their ability to govern themselves, not entirely beholden to the federal government.
 
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#5,189
#5,189
OHvol40 said:
We also have a tradition of deciding elections by popular vote... like, all of them, everywhere, all the time. All except one.

It’s funny to invoke tradition in this instance, because I’m 100% positive tradition is not a motivator for keeping the EC, winning is.

I posted a nice little quote earlier from Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest thinkers amongst the founding fathers. You should check that out if you haven’t.
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We have no tradition of using the popular vote to decide the Presidency. Do I need to hold your hand and explain the definition of tradition?
 
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#5,190
#5,190
Weezer said:
And how exactly does popular vote make it "fair" to smaller states? The larger states would get favored due to sheer size and the needs and desires of the smaller states would take a backseat to theirs. So hold my hand and explain to me how that's "fair". It's not, and the FFs recognized that.

When this country was founded, the emphasis was on the individual states, and their ability to govern themselves, not entirely beholden to the federal government.
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Wrong.

One man = one vote. That’s the only way to have a perfect election. Some would say even the greatest election.
 
#5,191
#5,191
zeppelin128 said:
I'm off to Reddit to be an asshat like the Bernie Bros for a bit.
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CaptainKitteh.jpg
 
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#5,192
#5,192
OHvol40 said:
We also have a tradition of deciding elections by popular vote... like, all of them, everywhere, all the time. All except one.

It’s funny to invoke tradition in this instance, because I’m 100% positive tradition is not a motivator for keeping the EC, winning is.

I posted a nice little quote earlier from Thomas Jefferson, one of the greatest thinkers amongst the founding fathers. You should check that out if you haven’t.
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What was the quote? I'm not going to dig back through all the pages to find it.
 
#5,193
#5,193
Weezer said:
And how exactly does popular vote make it "fair" to smaller states? The larger states would get favored due to sheer size and the needs and desires of the smaller states would take a backseat to theirs. So hold my hand and explain to me how that's "fair". It's not, and the FFs recognized that.

When this country was founded, the emphasis was on the individual states, and their ability to govern themselves, not entirely beholden to the federal government.
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His refusal to respond to certain points is instructive.
 
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#5,199
#5,199
Weezer said:
And how exactly does popular vote make it "fair" to smaller states? The larger states would get favored due to sheer size and the needs and desires of the smaller states would take a backseat to theirs. So hold my hand and explain to me how that's "fair". It's not, and the FFs recognized that.

When this country was founded, the emphasis was on the individual states, and their ability to govern themselves, not entirely beholden to the federal government.
Click to expand...

Again, who gives a s*** about fairness for states? It’s about fairness for all Americans, not disproportionate say for those who stand in a certain spot.
 
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