Not Calling a Timeout

#176
#176
SGMVols said:
Fulk was nowhere near this good as a freshman. No one expected Alexander to be the second leading shot blocker in UT history. And most people crapped on Barnes for even taking Bone because he was a “3 star” and you know what, screw it. There’s no getting through to these idiot Barnes haters. There used to be lots of people in this forum who actually know basketball. They all ran off for greener pastures. Bruce Pearl isn’t coming back and Steve Forbes will never be our head coach. Get the hell over it.
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No question Bone and Alexander became better players under Barnes. And agree on Fulkerson too. I would also submit that Pons is a better all around player now than when he arrived.
 
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#177
#177
orangemadam said:
This is an honest question.

I keep hearing that Barnes is a developer of players. Here at UT, who has developed outside of Grant and Admiral?

I don't think Bone and Alexander developed more than expected. Fulky was very good even as a freshman. Am I missing something? (Don't throw out Durant, that was at tejas)

Was J.R. a Barnes development or was he developed moreso before Barnes arrived? Enlighten me.

Thanks.
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Wow with this post! A poster boy for the uninformed
 
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#178
#178
orangemadam said:
This is an honest question.

I keep hearing that Barnes is a developer of players. Here at UT, who has developed outside of Grant and Admiral?

I don't think Bone and Alexander developed more than expected. Fulky was very good even as a freshman. Am I missing something? (Don't throw out Durant, that was at tejas)

Was J.R. a Barnes development or was he developed moreso before Barnes arrived? Enlighten me.

Thanks.
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I think if you look at a list of players he's coached here, you can answer your own question.

Richardson was gone before Barnes arrived.
 
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#183
#183
orangemadam said:
This is an honest question.

I keep hearing that Barnes is a developer of players. Here at UT, who has developed outside of Grant and Admiral?

I don't think Bone and Alexander developed more than expected. Fulky was very good even as a freshman. Am I missing something? (Don't throw out Durant, that was at tejas)

Was J.R. a Barnes development or was he developed moreso before Barnes arrived? Enlighten me.

Thanks.
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Well most folks don’t expect 3 star players to make it to the NBA...

Grant Williams, Jordan Bone, admiral Schofield and Kyle Alexander all accomplished that feat after 3-4 years with Barnes, I would consider that some player development. Lamonte Turner prior to his injury was also a very productive 3 star. You look at Jordan Bowden and he’s going to go down in the Top 15 of a few UT record categories, and he came here as an unranked 3 star? John Fulkerson was a 3 star, he is likely to be All-SEC this season and probably preseason 1st or 2nd team next year. Yves Pons couldn’t dribble a basketball when he got on campus or shoot anything other than a dunk, he’s now a better than 30% three point shooter and getting projections as a NBA Draft Pick.
 
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#184
#184
orangemadam said:
Sorry to bother you Mr. Vitale

Some of us have a life of things outside sitting on the couch or in the darkened bedroom studying tape of basketball games.

Is this not a forum for discussion?
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Mr. Vitale......that you would use that windbag as some sort of barometer tells me all I need to know.

I seriously doubt you have as much going on in your life as I have had in mine, but that's cool. I already knew from your posts that you don't know any better.

Barnes has been a great developer of his players and is a straight shooter. I will take him all day long over Pearl and then some, and I liked that snake
 
#186
#186
I havent read one single post on this board since the Auburn debacle because I am sure much of this has been said but I’m getting this off my chest.

I hated the hire of Barnes at the time because because I thought the stubborn man had seen this game pass him by. I am happy to say he proved me wrong by reinventing himself and am now extremely glad he’s our coach

BUT

The stubborn old man that has seen this game pass him by reared his ugly head at Auburn with his selfish stubborn pouting excuse for not taking a TO. He point blank QUIT on his team when they needed him the most.

The team clearly played the same way I felt
About tonight’s game from the start. They played exactly like a team that didn’t trust their coach at the start of the game and had to make a miraculous comeback to cut it to 2. They just didn’t have the juice left to finish and who can blame them because I’m sure their stubborn old coach would just quit on them down the stretch again.

Maybe just maybe Barnes coached
At Auburn with next year in mind and if he did that’s absolutely bull **** because Bowden deserves a coach that doesn’t QUiT in his senior year.


with that said. Damn you Rick Barnes for giving up on this team. They deserve more.
 
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#187
#187
BruinVol said:
I havent read one single post on this board since the Auburn debacle because I am sure much of this has been said but I’m getting this off my chest.

I hated the hire of Barnes at the time because because I thought the stubborn man had seen this game pass him by. I am happy to say he proved me wrong by reinventing himself and am now extremely glad he’s our coach

BUT

The stubborn old man that has seen this game pass him by reared his ugly head at Auburn with his selfish stubborn pouting excuse for not taking a TO. He point blank QUIT on his team when they needed him the most.

The team clearly played the same way I felt
About tonight’s game from the start. They played exactly like a team that didn’t trust their coach at the start of the game and had to make a miraculous comeback to cut it to 2. They just didn’t have the juice left to finish and who can blame them because I’m sure their stubborn old coach would just quit on them down the stretch again.

Maybe just maybe Barnes coached
At Auburn with next year in mind and if he did that’s absolutely bull **** because Bowden deserves a coach that doesn’t QUiT in his senior year.


with that said. Damn you Rick Barnes for giving up on this team. They deserve more.
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I agree. As I said, Barnes lost me a bit in the AU game. I was screaming at the TV for him to take a TO when it was just down to 10 because we couldn't even bring the freakin' ball down the court without turning it over. And he just watched it happen. His answer postgame was smartass and avoided all responsiblity. And as it looks, that stretch is taking what could have been an NCAAT finish and now we're probably going to lose out.

I'm not really happy with him right. I've defended him, but that was some terrible coaching.
 
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#188
#188
BruinVol said:
I havent read one single post on this board since the Auburn debacle because I am sure much of this has been said but I’m getting this off my chest.

I hated the hire of Barnes at the time because because I thought the stubborn man had seen this game pass him by. I am happy to say he proved me wrong by reinventing himself and am now extremely glad he’s our coach

BUT

The stubborn old man that has seen this game pass him by reared his ugly head at Auburn with his selfish stubborn pouting excuse for not taking a TO. He point blank QUIT on his team when they needed him the most.

The team clearly played the same way I felt
About tonight’s game from the start. They played exactly like a team that didn’t trust their coach at the start of the game and had to make a miraculous comeback to cut it to 2. They just didn’t have the juice left to finish and who can blame them because I’m sure their stubborn old coach would just quit on them down the stretch again.

Maybe just maybe Barnes coached
At Auburn with next year in mind and if he did that’s absolutely bull **** because Bowden deserves a coach that doesn’t QUiT in his senior year.


with that said. Damn you Rick Barnes for giving up on this team. They deserve more.
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Interesting take. Hadn't really thought about it that way. Never have thought Barnes was a good game coach though. If it aint done by tipoff in practice and scouting the team's usually on auto pilot. Have seen him be more active on the sidelines with the younger guys this season, early.
 
#189
#189
BruinVol said:
I havent read one single post on this board since the Auburn debacle because I am sure much of this has been said but I’m getting this off my chest.

I hated the hire of Barnes at the time because because I thought the stubborn man had seen this game pass him by. I am happy to say he proved me wrong by reinventing himself and am now extremely glad he’s our coach

BUT

The stubborn old man that has seen this game pass him by reared his ugly head at Auburn with his selfish stubborn pouting excuse for not taking a TO. He point blank QUIT on his team when they needed him the most.

The team clearly played the same way I felt
About tonight’s game from the start. They played exactly like a team that didn’t trust their coach at the start of the game and had to make a miraculous comeback to cut it to 2. They just didn’t have the juice left to finish and who can blame them because I’m sure their stubborn old coach would just quit on them down the stretch again.

Maybe just maybe Barnes coached
At Auburn with next year in mind and if he did that’s absolutely bull **** because Bowden deserves a coach that doesn’t QUiT in his senior year.


with that said. Damn you Rick Barnes for giving up on this team. They deserve more.
Click to expand...

Part of the reason I’m getting concerned for next year (and I will say I didn’t catch the second half of the Auburn game and only kept an eye on today’s game) is it seems that Barnes isn’t getting through with this group. They’re young, but they make the same mistakes. Other than Vescovi and Gaines, nobody has gotten better since game 1 (Fulky being the only consistent good player). And Barnes is definitely less on his feet this year, taking individual players aside and coaching them.

Part of what made those last two teams good was how Barnes was able to get through with his group. This year, that seems lost. Maybe that changes with next year. But I’m not sure he believes in this current crop of players outside of 2/3 guys.
 
#190
#190
zjcvols said:
Part of the reason I’m getting concerned for next year (and I will say I didn’t catch the second half of the Auburn game and only kept an eye on today’s game) is it seems that Barnes isn’t getting through with this group. They’re young, but they make the same mistakes. Other than Vescovi and Gaines, nobody has gotten better since game 1 (Fulky being the only consistent good player). And Barnes is definitely less on his feet this year, taking individual players aside and coaching them.

Part of what made those last two teams good was how Barnes was able to get through with his group. This year, that seems lost. Maybe that changes with next year. But I’m not sure he believes in this current crop of players outside of 2/3 guys.
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Looking at the Barnes' history it would seem that something changed after the 2007-2008 season. and the 2 previous seasons here might shed some light. Listening to his post games last season might also give an answer. He said several times last year, enough that people noticed, I was letting them work thru it or I wanted to see if THEY could figure it out.
Has Barnes become too dependent on team leadership during games. Yes it is an important factor and last season he had a wealth of it ala williams/Schofield.
This season it was there until Turner went down. Even when he was here he was so hampered by injury, it affected him.
He said this season(more than once) that fulkerson didn't want to assume the leadership role. Rambling and thinking out loud, but I have reservations about next season and wondering if it will come down to finding a williams type personality in the bunch of new recruits.
 
#191
#191
VolsSportsFan said:
I agree. As I said, Barnes lost me a bit in the AU game. I was screaming at the TV for him to take a TO when it was just down to 10 because we couldn't even bring the freakin' ball down the court without turning it over. And he just watched it happen. His answer postgame was smartass and avoided all responsiblity. And as it looks, that stretch is taking what could have been an NCAAT finish and now we're probably going to lose out.

I'm not really happy with him right. I've defended him, but that was some terrible coaching.
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I think this is a common sentiment and not just from the drive-by posters. Some people can’t deal w criticism or negativity, but this is well deserved.
 
#192
#192
zjcvols said:
Part of the reason I’m getting concerned for next year (and I will say I didn’t catch the second half of the Auburn game and only kept an eye on today’s game) is it seems that Barnes isn’t getting through with this group. They’re young, but they make the same mistakes. Other than Vescovi and Gaines, nobody has gotten better since game 1 (Fulky being the only consistent good player). And Barnes is definitely less on his feet this year, taking individual players aside and coaching them.

Part of what made those last two teams good was how Barnes was able to get through with his group. This year, that seems lost. Maybe that changes with next year. But I’m not sure he believes in this current crop of players outside of 2/3 guys.
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I agree with this. It seems like Barnes is frustrated with them to the point that he doesn't think they're going to get it. He definitely seems less connected to them. Personally I think that's a bad look for Barnes, even if he's right. But I also suspect Barnes is at a place in life that he probably dgaf how it looks. Like I said I've defended Barnes but the last week and times during this season hasn't been a good look at all for him, especially after all the offseason drama with him flirting with UCLA and leveraging that.

The main thing like you mentioned that blows my mind is how bad we still look at fundamentals at this point in the season, and making the same silly, mindless mistakes over and over. The meltdown against AU is going to be burned in my head for a long time. Had I just turned that game on with no context I would thought it was the first SEC road game of the year, not near the end of the season. We're past the point where you can blame youth and inexperience for many of these.
 
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#193
#193
Barnes lost some of my support in that AU game, as well. AU is a good team, and more talented than Tennessee, right now. No reason to just let them eviscerate a 17 point deficit without exhausting every option. The idea of needing TOs down the stretch doesn’t cut it for me. I’d have called one after each and every Auburn steal and score until I ran out of them in hopes that it would break up their momentum.

Stubborn is a good word for it, and we saw that same stubbornness when Arkansas raced out to a 14-1 lead, and we hadn’t made a basket and turned it over 5 times before the first media TO.

The lack of fundamentals with this team is alarming. The lack of leadership is alarming. The lack of accountability from one player to the next is alarming. We need some alpha players in the worst way. Recruiting talent is one part of the success of a team, but you have to recruit leadership, as well, and that is the biggest gap I see on this team. Not sure if a freshman will be equipped to take on that role, next year, either. Hopefully someone decides they want to be leader on the floor.
 
#194
#194
calban said:
Interesting take. Hadn't really thought about it that way. Never have thought Barnes was a good game coach though. If it aint done by tipoff in practice and scouting the team's usually on auto pilot. Have seen him be more active on the sidelines with the younger guys this season, early.
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Not a good game coach? There’s a disconnect there. I guess those 700 wins and future HOF selection are just pure luck? It is not possible to win 700 games in one’s career with mostly 3 star talent without being a good bench coach and developer of talent. He’s had some 4 stars and the occasional 5 star but it certainly isn’t like Calipari who has a revolving door of 5 stars. Barnes hasn’t had the luxury of rolling the ball out on the floor and letting talent win out. All I have to do is look at the development of Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield to know Barnes can coach.
 
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#195
#195
cncchris33 said:
Barnes lost some of my support in that AU game, as well. AU is a good team, and more talented than Tennessee, right now. No reason to just let them eviscerate a 17 point deficit without exhausting every option. The idea of needing TOs down the stretch doesn’t cut it for me. I’d have called one after each and every Auburn steal and score until I ran out of them in hopes that it would break up their momentum.

Stubborn is a good word for it, and we saw that same stubbornness when Arkansas raced out to a 14-1 lead, and we hadn’t made a basket and turned it over 5 times before the first media TO.

The lack of fundamentals with this team is alarming. The lack of leadership is alarming. The lack of accountability from one player to the next is alarming. We need some alpha players in the worst way. Recruiting talent is one part of the success of a team, but you have to recruit leadership, as well, and that is the biggest gap I see on this team. Not sure if a freshman will be equipped to take on that role, next year, either. Hopefully someone decides they want to be leader on the floor.
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I agree to an extent, but how much different does this team look/record also if Lamonte Turner is junior Lamonte Turner? You would have your alpha, another ball handler, a great perimeter defender...a lot of problems would be solved and I think most would probably agree this team with healthy Turner all year is playing in March.

So the question is more how much do you blame Barnes for not having alpha leaders, and ball handlers, behind Turner and Bone (who they built the roster to have) and went the year without either? I’m sure if you told Barnes he wasn’t going to have Bone or Turner he probably recruits differently for this roster this past March/April, they probably push for a graduate transfer guard to add to the roster.

If Fulk had gone down with a season ending injury instead of Turner we are probably bashing Barnes for not recruiting more quality post guys...you can only have 13 on scholarship, you start mixing in early departures, injuries, transfers etc. and just about any team in the country is going to struggle to meet expectations.

He’s the head man, I’m not excusing him at all it ultimately falls on him and he has said as much, and if this becomes a trend going forward then I will be concerned...but with their mindset of recruiting to oversign by 1 going forward that gives me some optimism that they are trying to avoid this exact situation from occurring again if possible.
 
#196
#196
Delmar said:
Not a good game coach? There’s a disconnect there. I guess those 700 wins and future HOF selection are just pure luck? It is not possible to win 700 games in one’s career with mostly 3 star talent without being a good bench coach and developer of talent. He’s had some 4 stars and the occasional 5 star but it certainly isn’t like Calipari who has a revolving door of 5 stars. Barnes hasn’t had the luxury of rolling the ball out on the floor and letting talent win out. All I have to do is look at the development of Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield to know Barnes can coach.
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Yes he has won 700 games but you have to look closer at his record. He has a losing record to ranked teams and his recent ,since 2008, performance in the NCAA is sub par. He is a good coach as far as development and game preparation but there is a disconnect when game day arrives. he also does better in the tournament when he is seeded 4 or higher. Now it's just my opinion, but from watching him here and listening to him after games I just believe his short comings lie in his performance on game day. If you don't agree that's fine.
 
#197
#197
cncchris33 said:
Barnes lost some of my support in that AU game, as well. AU is a good team, and more talented than Tennessee, right now. No reason to just let them eviscerate a 17 point deficit without exhausting every option. The idea of needing TOs down the stretch doesn’t cut it for me. I’d have called one after each and every Auburn steal and score until I ran out of them in hopes that it would break up their momentum.

Stubborn is a good word for it, and we saw that same stubbornness when Arkansas raced out to a 14-1 lead, and we hadn’t made a basket and turned it over 5 times before the first media TO.

The lack of fundamentals with this team is alarming. The lack of leadership is alarming. The lack of accountability from one player to the next is alarming. We need some alpha players in the worst way. Recruiting talent is one part of the success of a team, but you have to recruit leadership, as well, and that is the biggest gap I see on this team. Not sure if a freshman will be equipped to take on that role, next year, either. Hopefully someone decides they want to be leader on the floor.
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As you’re aware, I have felt the same for most of the season, since sometime around the Memphis game. Something isn’t right on that coaching staff IMO.
 
#198
#198
calban said:
Yes he has won 700 games but you have to look closer at his record. He has a losing record to ranked teams and his recent ,since 2008, performance in the NCAA is sub par. He is a good coach as far as development and game preparation but there is a disconnect when game day arrives. he also does better in the tournament when he is seeded 4 or higher. Now it's just my opinion, but from watching him here and listening to him after games I just believe his short comings lie in his performance on game day. If you don't agree that's fine.
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Without researching, I’d guess almost every coach with a large sample size has a losing record against ranked team and performs better in a tourney when seeded 4th or higher.
 
#199
#199
bleedingTNorange said:
I agree to an extent, but how much different does this team look/record also if Lamonte Turner is junior Lamonte Turner? You would have your alpha, another ball handler, a great perimeter defender...a lot of problems would be solved and I think most would probably agree this team with healthy Turner all year is playing in March.

So the question is more how much do you blame Barnes for not having alpha leaders, and ball handlers, behind Turner and Bone (who they built the roster to have) and went the year without either? I’m sure if you told Barnes he wasn’t going to have Bone or Turner he probably recruits differently for this roster this past March/April, they probably push for a graduate transfer guard to add to the roster.

If Fulk had gone down with a season ending injury instead of Turner we are probably bashing Barnes for not recruiting more quality post guys...you can only have 13 on scholarship, you start mixing in early departures, injuries, transfers etc. and just about any team in the country is going to struggle to meet expectations.

He’s the head man, I’m not excusing him at all it ultimately falls on him and he has said as much, and if this becomes a trend going forward then I will be concerned...but with their mindset of recruiting to oversign by 1 going forward that gives me some optimism that they are trying to avoid this exact situation from occurring again if possible.
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A healthy Turner is maybe the difference in 4-5 games. But a healthy Turner might mean we don’t see Vescovi this year, either, so it’s tough to say.

Barnes knew Bone was gone in plenty enough time to pursue an experienced grad transfer. I can only guess he thought Turner, Bowden, and James were enough at guard to be effective. Obviously, all three of those have had issues regarding health, the yips, or both. Vescovi has played well at times, and struggled in at times. We just haven’t had much consistency at the guard position. We also haven’t settled into a regular overall rotation, yet, and the season is almost over. Things just haven’t clicked for this group. No groove.
 
#200
#200
Delmar said:
Not a good game coach? There’s a disconnect there. I guess those 700 wins and future HOF selection are just pure luck? It is not possible to win 700 games in one’s career with mostly 3 star talent without being a good bench coach and developer of talent. He’s had some 4 stars and the occasional 5 star but it certainly isn’t like Calipari who has a revolving door of 5 stars. Barnes hasn’t had the luxury of rolling the ball out on the floor and letting talent win out. All I have to do is look at the development of Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield to know Barnes can coach.
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The occasional 5 star?? He signed up to 3 in a season at Texas. From 2000 to his final class he signed 14 5 stars and 20 4 stars and that was out of 52 total players signed and 3 of them were jucos that there wasn't a ranking for. He rarely fielded a team at Texas that didn't have multiple 5 stars with most of the roster being 4/5 star guys.

That was the biggest hope with him coming in and the biggest beef people had his first few years. What happened to the Rick Barnes that was a elite top 5 in CBB recruiter.
 
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