The Impeachment Thread

#36,231
#36,231
evillawyer said:


Lamar: "You've presented overwhelming evidence, but it's not enough to convict and remove."

Schiff: "Well, there's more we can present if you allow us to subpoena witnesses and docs. That may move the needle since you said we don't have enough."

Lamar: "Didn't you hear me!?!? I just said you presented overwhelming evidence, why do you need more?"

Have fun with that argument Lamar.
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the common thread with all this is your team having to invent what people are "really" saying to make your case.
 
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#36,233
#36,233
Orangeburst said:
For one you are making an unrealistic assumption that other spending would increase. You really think the Dems would cut SS to provide more funding for defense? You are not being honest with yourself if you think we can get it under control without some entitlement restructuring.
Point is it is a third rail that Trump is touching and benefits him in no way. You should at least applaud the effort.
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Everything that governments do that turn citizens into recipients become third rails ... even the ones that were "temporary" to correct a problem. SS and Medicare are especially thorny because we have specifically paid for them - wage statements, W-2s, etc show them separately from income tax ... not that the government bothers to set that aside from normal income tax. Mess with SS and Medicare, and it changes from a largely R vs D issue to one that becomes bipartisan. I paid for it and I expect it back. Of course, now "I make too much with other retirement income" so my SS is taxed, too. One way to help is to rid DC of much of the huge entrenched bureaucracy. For example, the IRS could be decimated by simplification - flat rate with no deductions ... and include "entitlements". Congress won't go for it; there's too much money to be made in manipulating tax legislation. The government can't work it's way out of entanglements for fear of alienating one or more voting blocs, and it doesn't have the common sense to avoid creating more ... like Obamacare. It's the classic snowball rolling down a mountain.

I absolutely agree that an outsider like Trump is a bigger threat to the DC bureaucracy than all the missiles aimed there during the Cold War. Actually I'd have avoided targeting DC and simply considered it Malfunction Junction - and more likely to bake matters worse after missiles were launched.
 
#36,234
#36,234
volinbham said:
doesn't say they are required or compelled to seek additional information either now does it?
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Nope, it sure doesn't. In fact, the Senate can completely decide to not even hear that evidence since the whole power to try the case rests with the Senate. They get to decide what comes in and what doesn't. But that's not the point I was responding to, which was something to the effect that it's the House's job to collect all the evidence for the Senate trial. And there is zero constitutional basis for that position.
 
#36,235
#36,235
evillawyer said:
Yo brainiac, point me to the place in the Constitution where it says the Senate's trial is limited to evidence adduced in the House. I'll wait ....
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Can you point to where it says the majority vote held in the Senate has to allow any further evidence , except what the House brings over as articles of impeachment? I’ll wait ....
 
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#36,245
#36,245
0nelilreb said:
Can you point to where it says the majority vote held in the Senate has to allow any further evidence , except what the House brings over as articles of impeachment? I’ll wait ....
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You're not grasping the argument. The full authority to try an impeachment rests with the Senate. They make the rules for their trial. Accordingly, they're not limited to what was relied upon by the House. Your position is that the Senate is (or should be) limited to the evidence adduced in the House. There is zero constitutional basis for that position because, and I quote, "[t]he Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments."
 
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