To Protect and to Serve II

#8,803
#8,803
Matt2496 said:
Then they just stood and watched while the dog chewed up his arm.

****ing tyrants.
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You obviously have never seen an actual K9 apprehension. The majority of them are minor that barely require a stitch. Another tv show/movie myth that most police K9s gnaw off an arm or pull out a throat lol. Just not reality at all.
 
#8,804
#8,804
Rickyvol77 said:
You obviously have never seen an actual K9 apprehension. The majority of them are minor that barely require a stitch. Another tv show/movie myth that most police K9s gnaw off an arm or pull out a throat lol. Just not reality at all.
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What was the point of releasing a dog on a man that was cooperating? Why risk the dog doing any damage in the first place?
 
#8,806
#8,806
Raz, I'm not sure you saw it right. Neither one of us was there, but let you give me my "think" on it after watching your video.

Moving violation...failure to yield (stop)...45 minute low-speed pursuit...suspect gets out and walks towards a clinic with other people in it. Looks like he finally stops and starts to comply with verbal commands. The book here is pretty common. Get the suspect into a kneeling or prone position; approach with both lethal and less-than-lethal cover; and apprehend. But here's where it goes off-script...

Suspect is kneeling, and then stands up. I'd bet money nobody told him to do that. In other words, he was most likely no longer compliant. Thus, hair missile. They're too far away for a Taser shot, so...dog it is.

Like I said, I wasn't there, but I've been in a few of those situations, and you never...ever...tell the suspect to "stand back up".

Not defending what they did, but if he was no longer compliant (as it appears), then deploying the K9 was by no means excessive force in that scenario. Totality of the circumstances. Don't just stare at the last 30 seconds; watch the entire 45+ minute episode. Then decide.
 
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#8,807
#8,807
GreyWolf1129 said:
Raz, I'm not sure you saw it right. Neither one of us was there, but let you give me my "think" on it after watching your video.

Moving violation...failure to yield (stop)...45 minute low-speed pursuit...suspect gets out and walks towards a clinic with other people in it. Looks like he finally stops and starts to comply with verbal commands. The book here is pretty common. Get the suspect into a kneeling or prone position; approach with both lethal and less-than-lethal cover; and apprehend. But here's where it goes off-script...

Suspect is kneeling, and then stands up. I'd bet money nobody told him to do that. In other words, he was most likely no longer compliant. Thus, hair missile. They're too far away for a Taser shot, so...dog it is.

Like I said, I wasn't there, but I've been in a few of those situations, and you never...ever...tell the suspect to "stand back up".

Not defending what they did, but if he was no longer compliant (as it appears), then deploying the K9 was by no means excessive force in that scenario. Totality of the circumstances. Don't just stare at the last 30 seconds; watch the entire 45+ minute episode. Then decide.
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Good points
 
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#8,808
#8,808
GreyWolf1129 said:
Raz, I'm not sure you saw it right. Neither one of us was there, but let you give me my "think" on it after watching your video.

Moving violation...failure to yield (stop)...45 minute low-speed pursuit...suspect gets out and walks towards a clinic with other people in it. Looks like he finally stops and starts to comply with verbal commands. The book here is pretty common. Get the suspect into a kneeling or prone position; approach with both lethal and less-than-lethal cover; and apprehend. But here's where it goes off-script...

Suspect is kneeling, and then stands up. I'd bet money nobody told him to do that. In other words, he was most likely no longer compliant. Thus, hair missile. They're too far away for a Taser shot, so...dog it is.

Like I said, I wasn't there, but I've been in a few of those situations, and you never...ever...tell the suspect to "stand back up".

Not defending what they did, but if he was no longer compliant (as it appears), then deploying the K9 was by no means excessive force in that scenario. Totality of the circumstances. Don't just stare at the last 30 seconds; watch the entire 45+ minute episode. Then decide.
Click to expand...

That is one possibility, but yet, the fact that you have a guy that does comply at least at some point with 4 LEO's and a K9 within feet of him (21ft??). The time for them to have easily closed that gap is when he was on both knees, arms extended and looking ahead. If I had to throw in my own speculations, I bet these cops saw this and immediately began throwing out more commands ("put your left arm up, point your toes to the east, wiggle your nose... do the hokey pokey" nonsense) or instructions while this guy is probably doing his best to keep his balance or get in a comfortable stance.
 
#8,809
#8,809
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is one possibility, but yet, the fact that you have a guy that does comply at least at some point with 4 LEO's and a K9 within feet of him (21ft??). The time for them to have easily closed that gap is when he was on both knees, arms extended and looking ahead. If I had to throw in my own speculations, I bet these cops saw this and immediately began throwing out more commands ("put your left arm up, point your toes to the east, wiggle your nose... do the hokey pokey" nonsense) or instructions while this guy is probably doing his best to keep his balance or get in a comfortable stance.
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We're making progress, you and I.

Baby steps.
 
#8,812
#8,812
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is one possibility, but yet, the fact that you have a guy that does comply at least at some point with 4 LEO's and a K9 within feet of him (21ft??). The time for them to have easily closed that gap is when he was on both knees, arms extended and looking ahead. If I had to throw in my own speculations, I bet these cops saw this and immediately began throwing out more commands ("put your left arm up, point your toes to the east, wiggle your nose... do the hokey pokey" nonsense) or instructions while this guy is probably doing his best to keep his balance or get in a comfortable stance.
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He disobeyed commands and stood up AFTER the running from police and they didn’t know if he had a weapon or not. Pretty clear cut legal case of proper K9 apprehension
 
#8,814
#8,814
Rasputin_Vol said:
45 minutes driving like Ms Daisy to a medical facility. Not exactly Clyde Barrow running towards a weapons cache at the hideout.
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I’m normally with you Ras but in this case it’s reasonable to not trust this guy. It’s all on him. If he had pulled over and had his license ready he likely gets a ticket or a warning and sent on his way. There’s nothing normal about this guy’s behavior. I don’t have an issue with non lethal in this case.
 
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#8,816
#8,816
Rickyvol77 said:
He disobeyed commands and stood up AFTER the running from police and they didn’t know if he had a weapon or not. Pretty clear cut legal case of proper K9 apprehension
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Those cops were not concerned about that guy having a weapon once he got on his knees and spread his arms out. Again, I bet you those cops made this a lot longer than it needed to be by trying to give out a bunch of orders/commands that really don't amount to a hill of beans. "Put your hand on your head... don't move... cross your legs..." As soon as that guy was on his knees with his arms out, they could have approached with guns drawn and taken the guy down without even needing the K9.
 
#8,818
#8,818
Rasputin_Vol said:
Those cops were not concerned about that guy having a weapon once he got on his knees and spread his arms out. Again, I bet you those cops made this a lot longer than it needed to be by trying to give out a bunch of orders/commands that really don't amount to a hill of beans. "Put your hand on your head... don't move... cross your legs..." As soon as that guy was on his knees with his arms out, they could have approached with guns drawn and taken the guy down without even needing the K9.
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You don’t think that a subject has ever pulled a gun on an officer after getting on his knees? They didn’t know if he had a gun on him. The minute he stood back up and tried to enter the business the k9 took him down. Standard procedure. Quite elementary training really
 
#8,819
#8,819
Rasputin_Vol said:
45 minutes driving like Ms Daisy to a medical facility. Not exactly Clyde Barrow running towards a weapons cache at the hideout.
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So officers are required to be psychic about the guy’s intentions? What if he drove there to kill someone he knew? Or was simply another mental case putting those people at risk?
 
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#8,820
#8,820
Rickyvol77 said:
So officers are required to be psychic about the guy’s intentions? What if he drove there to kill someone he knew? Or was simply another mental case putting those people at risk?
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That's your damn problem, you guys assume that everyone is a hired killer and is looking to blow you away. You guys are just douche bags.
 
#8,821
#8,821
VolStrom said:
That's your damn problem, you guys assume that everyone is a hired killer and is looking to blow you away. You guys are just douche bags.
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No it’s because we encounter violence so often, that we are cautious. And running from the police is not a “normal behavior” no matter how bad criminal enablers want to make it
 
#8,822
#8,822
Rickyvol77 said:
No it’s because we encounter violence so often, that we are cautious. And running from the police is not a “normal behavior” no matter how bad criminal enablers want to make it
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You're jerks and use any chance you can to "protect" yourself. You're a coward and you won't do anything without being in an overwhelming force situation.
 
#8,824
#8,824
Rickyvol77 said:
Generalize much? Guessing you’ve had some run ins with the police before
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I've never been arrested, but I have had the pleasure of being treated as a criminal by the police. I'm guessing that you've broken way more laws than I ever thought of.
 
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