The Impeachment Thread

#27,152
#27,152
PointGuard said:
The bait and switch. Trump is the deep state.
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Deep State is by definition career bureaucrats that run a shadow government based on outside influence from lobbyists / think-tanks / corporations that are usually affiliated with the Council on Foreign Relations and/or the Tri-Lateral Commission.

Trump’s political career started in 2015 as a candidate.

How does Trump fit into the Deep State?
 
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#27,153
#27,153
NorthDallas40 said:
Wait wait wait. The two charges are Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress, not Obstruction of Justice! And now the libs are splashing around trying to tread water on why they chose that instead! 😂

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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It’s simple why they chose that. It’s a betrayal of principle by putting party wish ahead of what’s good for the country. It’s why they didn’t move to impeachment inquiry when the zmuellet report came out. 10 coins of OOJ is a mandated impeachment inquiry per the constitution

InsteD the Dems caved to the wishes of Dems in the swing states. After Barr spoke his lies and then let weeks go by before issuing the report the lies became reality in the minds of many as is evidenced by posts here. Trump would possibly win those states if OOJ was on the table

I call ******** on the Dems for this. Conviction for the rule of law needs to carry the day
 
#27,154
#27,154
hog88 said:
So your saying Roberts can snap his fingers, do away with the 5th Amendment and force Trump to testify? I want to see it....
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I half agree with you on this, I don’t think Roberts will try to compel Trump to testify.

That said, you might need to go back and re-memorize the fifth amendment with an eye towards whether it applies here.
 
#27,157
#27,157
hog88 said:
So your saying Roberts can snap his fingers, do away with the 5th Amendment and force Trump to testify? I want to see it....
Click to expand...

There's a reason Pelosi and Co. are short-circuiting the normal judicial process.

"So, John Roberts can compel any witness he wants to appear and he can judge to what degree witnesses can decline to give evidence and on what basis."

Pelosi Will Impeach, and John Roberts’ Role Will Loom Large

"...there is no reason that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who presides as the judge of a Senate impeachment trial, cannot unilaterally enforce congressional subpoenas on the spot. He can also rule on any executive privilege claims on the spot. "

"...There is no need to go through the courts and all the appeals processes for non-cooperating witnesses because that is designed for “Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.” It has nothing to do with an impeachment trial that the Senate has the “sole Power” to try and where the Chief Justice has the sole responsibility to preside. So, John Roberts can compel any witness he wants to appear and he can judge to what degree witnesses can decline to give evidence and on what basis. I can’t see how he could reasonably deny the House the right to call witnesses who indisputably have direct knowledge of the High Crimes, misdemeanors and bribery that will be alleged in the articles of impeachment.

The Republicans may use the same logic to compel people like Joe and Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff and the whistleblower to appear. However, the Bidens are not fact witnesses, Schiff enjoys certain presumed privileges as a congressman, and the whistleblower has some statutory protections. Nonetheless, the decision on these matters will be up to John Roberts, and he can make sure that the American people hear all the relevant evidence or he can act in a nakedly partisan manner. He should at least be compelled to make that choice in the most visible way possible."
 
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#27,158
#27,158
SpaceCoastVol said:
He was propped up in the 2016 primaries in an attempt to get it to a brokered convention. Nope... I can't prove it, but he came back to life all of a sudden when everyone else was dead.
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Well, the DNC "selection process" was an unmitigated disaster. Clinton was the pre-ordained choice.
 
#27,160
#27,160
RockyTop85 said:
I half agree with you on this, I don’t think Roberts will try to compel Trump to testify.

That said, you might need to go back and re-memorize the fifth amendment with an eye towards whether it applies here.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't it apply? Any testimony or evidence discovered during an impeachment trial may be used in criminal proceedings afterwords. I agree that there is no double jeopardy protections but forcing the defendant to testify in an impeachment trial would be unprecedented wouldn't it?
 
#27,161
#27,161
MontyPython said:
There's a reason Pelosi and Co. are short-circuiting the normal judicial process.

"So, John Roberts can compel any witness he wants to appear and he can judge to what degree witnesses can decline to give evidence and on what basis."

Pelosi Will Impeach, and John Roberts’ Role Will Loom Large

"...there is no reason that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who presides as the judge of a Senate impeachment trial, cannot unilaterally enforce congressional subpoenas on the spot. He can also rule on any executive privilege claims on the spot. "

"...There is no need to go through the courts and all the appeals processes for non-cooperating witnesses because that is designed for “Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.” It has nothing to do with an impeachment trial that the Senate has the “sole Power” to try and where the Chief Justice has the sole responsibility to preside. So, John Roberts can compel any witness he wants to appear and he can judge to what degree witnesses can decline to give evidence and on what basis. I can’t see how he could reasonably deny the House the right to call witnesses who indisputably have direct knowledge of the High Crimes, misdemeanors and bribery that will be alleged in the articles of impeachment.

The Republicans may use the same logic to compel people like Joe and Hunter Biden, Adam Schiff and the whistleblower to appear. However, the Bidens are not fact witnesses, Schiff enjoys certain presumed privileges as a congressman, and the whistleblower has some statutory protections. Nonetheless, the decision on these matters will be up to John Roberts, and he can make sure that the American people hear all the relevant evidence or he can act in a nakedly partisan manner. He should at least be compelled to make that choice in the most visible way possible."
Click to expand...

I agree that Roberts can compel any witness to testify, I just don't think he would or could compel the defendant (Trump) to testify.
 
#27,163
#27,163
ajvol01 said:
Deep State is by definition career bureaucrats that run a shadow government based on outside influence from lobbyists / think-tanks / corporations that are usually affiliated with the Council on Foreign Relations and/or the Tri-Lateral Commission.

Trump’s political career started in 2015 as a candidate.

How does Trump fit into the Deep State?
Click to expand...

You are so naive and misguided. Did you have your tinfoil hat on when you wrote that?
 
#27,164
#27,164
hog88 said:
I agree that Roberts can compel any witness to testify, I just don't think he would or could compel the defendant (Trump) to testify.
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Agreed. Not Trump. Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, Bolton.

I suppose they could try to take the 5th, but how would their testimony be self-incriminating? Not sure how that would play out. Maybe our resident attorneys can opine.
 
#27,166
#27,166
evillawyer said:
Yes, we know this will fail in the Senate, but all the at-risk GOP senators will be on the record voting to save Trump or abandoning him, which will incur his anger. The Dems know what they're doing here. If anything only more damning facts will come out at the Senate trial (especially if they move Roberts to compel mulvaney, pompeo, and Bolton to testify and produce documents).
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Nice Spin:
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#27,167
#27,167
MontyPython said:
Agreed. Not Trump. Mulvaney, Pompeo, Giuliani, Bolton.

I suppose they could try to take the 5th, but how would their testimony be self-incriminating? Not sure how that would play out. Maybe our resident attorneys can opine.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about taking the 5th in terms of refusing to answer questions, I was referencing the protection against a defendant being compelled to testify. I have no idea if a witness could "plead the 5th" in an impeachment trial.
 
#27,169
#27,169
hog88 said:
Why wouldn't it apply? Any testimony or evidence discovered during an impeachment trial may be used in criminal proceedings afterwords. I agree that there is no double jeopardy protections but forcing the defendant to testify in an impeachment trial would be unprecedented wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Outside of the criminal proceeding the fifth amendment is not all-encompassing. It’s done on a question by question basis with the Court ruling on each question individually.

One of the Republicans biggest chirping points has been that these acts don’t meet the definition of a crime.

I think the Fifth has very little purchase in this trial, based on what articles they chose and the facts underlying those articles.

It would be unprecedented. I don’t think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen because Roberts will seek to preserve the institutional dignity of the judiciary by not getting into a pissing match with a petulant nonconformist against whom he has very little remedy. What can he do to Trump? He can’t usurp the senate’s role and remove him and he can’t force them to remove him and they likely won’t regardless of whether he disregards the order to testify. So what can he do? It’s a trap. I don’t think Roberts would fall for it.
 
#27,172
#27,172
volfanhill said:
I don’t. You are just brain washed into not thinking straight. As a conservative, I assume you hate big federal gov, debt issues, and not empowering the states. The truth is Trump is a Rhino. He has no problem with the Patriot act or blowing debt up. Has no issue with eminent domain by the feds. He is by definition a RHINO.
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Debt does not bother me if the debt is for a reason. You never want to be leveraged but sometimes debt is necessary. Most of our debt is ours.

Eminent domain does not bother me either as I am for progress. Sometimes eminent domain is necessary for high ways, roads, walls, new buildings.

I hate big government in the aspect of social programs that could be run much better on a local level. The government works for the people and sadly it has felt the other way for much too long.
 
#27,173
#27,173
RockyTop85 said:
Outside of the criminal proceeding the fifth amendment is not all-encompassing. It’s done on a question by question basis with the Court ruling on each question individually.

One of the Republicans biggest chirping points has been that these acts don’t meet the definition of a crime.

I think the Fifth has very little purchase in this trial, based on what articles they chose and the facts underlying those articles.

It would be unprecedented. I don’t think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen because Roberts will seek to preserve the institutional dignity of the judiciary by not getting into a pissing match with a petulant nonconformist against whom he has very little remedy. What can he do to Trump? He can’t usurp the senate’s role and remove him and he can’t force them to remove him and they likely won’t regardless of whether he disregards the order to testify. So what can he do? It’s a trap. I don’t think Roberts would fall for it.
Click to expand...

I don't see him doing it either but who knows with that guy, he has invented stuff before.
 
#27,174
#27,174
PointGuard said:
It’s simple why they chose that. It’s a betrayal of principle by putting party wish ahead of what’s good for the country. It’s why they didn’t move to impeachment inquiry when the zmuellet report came out. 10 coins of OOJ is a mandated impeachment inquiry per the constitution

InsteD the Dems caved to the wishes of Dems in the swing states. After Barr spoke his lies and then let weeks go by before issuing the report the lies became reality in the minds of many as is evidenced by posts here. Trump would possibly win those states if OOJ was on the table

I call ******** on the Dems for this. Conviction for the rule of law needs to carry the day
Click to expand...
😬

3A5B50A4-05C4-44FA-BFCE-78767963F8EA.jpeg
 
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