Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

[Devo182]

I certainly believe in continuity but should Tennessee have kept Tyson Helton and Terry Fair last year?

Tbf, we are talking obvious weak points from the original staff assembled in a hurry. Especially Fair, think that was just lip service. And Helton took a hc gig. I wouldn't say there's a clear weak point, but maybe weak-er points. Weinke? Rumph? But if you can add Lupoi, I think you do.

 

[jakez4ut]

we need good players.

then you need to win so they'll come here.

if they don't come here, we won't win.

then you won't get good players.

 

[Devo182]

Just for kicks, I looked at what our ranking might look like if we filled out the remainder of the class with nothing but 3 star guys. That would mean adding 8 more 3 star guys.

So I added uncommitted 3 star guys to the class calculator as follows: 2 WR, 1 TE, 3 DL, 1 LB, 1 DB

That bumped our total score to 232.89, which would have been good enough for #25 in 2019, #20 in 2018 and #18 in 2017. Not terrible.

Not terrible nationally, no. But SC level recruiting in the SEC will get you Y4 SC results too. Not directed at you, I know that is basically a worst case scenario you presented and no it's not terrible. Would just have us spinning our wheels in this conference.

 

[Devo182]

we need good players.

then you need to win so they'll come here.

if they don't come here, we won't win.

then you won't get good players.

Inflection points are huge in the chicken and egg problem. I just never pictured Ga St being one of those chickens.

Stinks because when you're selling rebuild and progress, recruits don't really give you many hiccups or else their faith can be lost. And the 2021 class is our last chance to sell rebuild/progress. We absolutely need to finish lights out and come into next year with our hair on fire. Even if that means we start 4-1 but still finish 8-4. We must start strong. Unfortunately, I think early season success or failure sticks more than late season. First impressions and all...

 

[JAllen18]

7-5 with a bowl game on the horizon looks great. 4-5 right now unfortunately does not. We will have momentum before NSD.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Just for kicks, I looked at what our ranking might look like if we filled out the remainder of the class with nothing but 3 star guys. That would mean adding 8 more 3 star guys.

So I added uncommitted 3 star guys to the class calculator as follows: 2 WR, 1 TE, 3 DL, 1 LB, 1 DB

That bumped our total score to 232.89, which would have been good enough for #25 in 2019, #20 in 2018 and #18 in 2017. Not terrible.

Nah I'd say that's pretty terrible. jmo.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

1) Win out and recruits will come. Even a bowl game would be big.

2) I think 2021 is when we will see better recruiting results. The NFL draft will very likely help us. Gotta think at least 3 guys will get drafted. Maybe 4 or 5 depending on how things go for Trey and Bituli. Remember how good the 2018 class was looking after our big draft that spring?

That assumes that we win next year. I think we'll be much improved, but we are really hurting for skill players. We lose our receivers next year also. We're going to be very very good on the lines of scrimmage and in the secondary. But we're losing our top pass rusher, our best LB, and our most dynamic playmakers in JJ and Callaway.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

we need good players.

then you need to win so they'll come here.

if they don't come here, we won't win.

then you won't get good players.

Yep. So people can downplay it all they want to, but losing Ojulari and Hardy are a big deal. We have to recruit well to win. If we aren't recruiting at a high level we aren't going to win at a high level.

 

[HankHill]

Yep. So people can downplay it all they want to, but losing Ojulari and Hardy are a big deal. We have to recruit well to win. If we aren't recruiting at a high level we aren't going to win at a high level.

Losing BJ makes losing Hardy hurt worse.

 

[UTSuave’]

I have no words for how we are struggling in recruiting. Yesterday I was hoping for a 12-15th class because I was assuming Hardy was a Vol. Now? Who knows. Our recruiting is awful right now and there's no way to slice it. I know I know, Georgia state. But the schools above are terrible. We are at least improving and showing progress. There's no excuse for us to be where we are right now. We have to upgrade the recruiting staff.

I blame Ga St and BYU for this dead water we are in. It’s unfortunate we can’t get a “Redo”..But none the less we have a QB that gives us a better chance to win out atleast,just unfortunate it was at the cost of games that should have been easily won with how we are playing now. Recruiting is fluid

 

[jakez4ut]

Losing BJ makes losing Hardy hurt worse.

agree, but i think it's the other way around. losing Hardy makes losing BJ worse, cause i think we all pretty much said "oh well, BJ wasn't solid here anyway, and we've got TB and JH coming".

 

[Kingston Vol]

Yep. So people can downplay it all they want to, but losing Ojulari and Hardy are a big deal. We have to recruit well to win. If we aren't recruiting at a high level we aren't going to win at a high level.

And if we’ve already kind of acknowledged 2020 won’t be the year we take a big jump then the recruits you sign this year are the guys that you’ll depend on in 2021.

 

[scvolfan7]

That assumes that we win next year. I think we'll be much improved, but we are really hurting for skill players. We lose our receivers next year also. We're going to be very very good on the lines of scrimmage and in the secondary. But we're losing our top pass rusher, our best LB, and our most dynamic playmakers in JJ and Callaway.

I think RB will be good and WR will be decent. Palmer, Tillman, and keyton should be a solid trio. You’re right about pass rush and LB though. Rebuild isn’t going to be done until year 4 probably. We will see what they can do though.

The 2018 class got off to a hot start and I think 2021 will too. So long as we don’t fire Pruitt we will be fine

 

[Devo182]

I have no words for how we are struggling in recruiting. Yesterday I was hoping for a 12-15th class because I was assuming Hardy was a Vol. Now? Who knows. Our recruiting is awful right now and there's no way to slice it. I know I know, Georgia state. But the schools above are terrible. We are at least improving and showing progress. There's no excuse for us to be where we are right now. We have to upgrade the recruiting staff.

Imo some thinking recent success should translate to recruiting could be a bit misguided. 247 mods always stress single wins rarely affect recruits as much as we may think. Even total wins and losses may not and other factors are more important...see recruiting last year.

But kids are also impressionable. A HUGE win I think could affect them, but that hasn't happened and all they've heard for 2 months is negative recruiting about Ga St. I don't see anything at this point, except winning out, having much of an impact at this point. BUT if we can point to 5 straight wins heading into ESD? That is legit, easy to digest, tangible proof of progress we can sell. Closing out a season has never been bigger to speeding up this rebuild. If we flounder in recruiting, we could be in for a longer wait than even patient people were expecting.

 

[jakez4ut]

Yep. So people can downplay it all they want to, but losing Ojulari and Hardy are a big deal. We have to recruit well to win. If we aren't recruiting at a high level we aren't going to win at a high level.

it simply amazes me we haven't gotten any more traction on the DL in recruiting......i mean pretty much every big time player we've targeted has wound up somewhere else, save D. Bailey....

Eboigbe, Bogle, Ojulari, Hardy, Rogers........i mean all of those guys could start here pretty much right away.

i think Rocker has done a fantastic job at developing what we've got on the roster, but the recruiting can't be an absolute zero can it?

amazing. smh.

 

[Smokeytom]

Rocker is a great coach, but Pruitt has repeated time and time again that this is a trenches league and a trenches game. If he doesn't like to recruit, then he needs to go. Tosh is one of the best recruiters out there, while also being a highly respected position coach. If Tosh wants another DC job, he'd be well off to come learn from Pruitt, Ansley and co.

I think Tosh vs Rocker coaching ability is a wash.

Tosh vs Rocker recruiting ability is not even debatable.

It would be an upgrade, and if Pruitt thinks the recruiting uptick is worth the lack of coaching continuity and decides to make that move, then I 100% trust it is the correct decision.

 

[RyanWalkerPGH]

That assumes that we win next year. I think we'll be much improved, but we are really hurting for skill players. We lose our receivers next year also. We're going to be very very good on the lines of scrimmage and in the secondary. But we're losing our top pass rusher, our best LB, and our most dynamic playmakers in JJ and Callaway.

My biggest concern that not enough people are talking about.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

it simply amazes me we haven't gotten any more traction on the DL in recruiting......i mean pretty much every big time player we've targeted has wound up somewhere else, save D. Bailey....

Eboigbe, Bogle, Ojulari, Hardy, Rogers........i mean all of those guys could start here pretty much right away.

i think Rocker has done a fantastic job at developing what we've got on the roster, but the recruiting can't be an absolute zero can it?

amazing. smh.

As good of a coach as he is, others are probably right, we need a guy who can not only coach, but recruit that position.

 

[jakez4ut]

Inflection points are huge in the chicken and egg problem. I just never pictured Ga St being one of those chickens.

Stinks because when you're selling rebuild and progress, recruits don't really give you many hiccups or else their faith can be lost. And the 2021 class is our last chance to sell rebuild/progress. We absolutely need to finish lights out and come into next year with our hair on fire. Even if that means we start 4-1 but still finish 8-4. We must start strong. Unfortunately, I think early season success or failure sticks more than late season. First impressions and all...

eh. i think it's in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure the negative recruiting after the first two weeks took its toll. but there's no way the progress we're making is being ignored. virtually anyone that's associated with covering the SEC has acknowledged a) the progress from the first the year b) the job the coaches have done managing the roster c) buy in and effort level of the players d) support from the fans and environment in Neyland.

and you don't have to be a coach makingi the pitch for the prospect to hear those takes. you see it on SECN, on the radio, on twitter etc....

so, while i agree, those 1st two weeks hit us hard and would be hard to overccome...........i think we've actually done it.

the bad news, you still have to answer the question about it...cause it did actually happen......

anyway.

 

[tnhunter 10]

JH ran into this at the cabin...

I’d commit also lol

 

[Devo182]

And if we’ve already kind of acknowledged 2020 won’t be the year we take a big jump then the recruits you sign this year are the guys that you’ll depend on in 2021.

It's all an unfortunate domino effect.

We lost some we shouldn't have this year...gotta make that up next year. OU would be primo...especially with GA late in the season, we could have a nice looking record heading into that one...

 

[Kingston Vol]

That assumes that we win next year. I think we'll be much improved, but we are really hurting for skill players. We lose our receivers next year also. We're going to be very very good on the lines of scrimmage and in the secondary. But we're losing our top pass rusher, our best LB, and our most dynamic playmakers in JJ and Callaway.

6-6 this year would feel great given the terrible start but I’m not sure it’s a guarantee we’d be any better record wise next season. It’s possible but not a guarantee.

 

[Devo182]

eh. i think it's in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure the negative recruiting after the first two weeks took its toll. but there's no way the progress we're making is being ignored. virtually anyone that's associated with covering the SEC has acknowledged a) the progress from the first the year b) the job the coaches have done managing the roster c) buy in and effort level of the players d) support from the fans and environment in Neyland.

and you don't have to be a coach makingi the pitch for the prospect to hear those takes. you see it on SECN, on the radio, on twitter etc....

so, while i agree, those 1st two weeks hit us hard and would be hard to overccome...........i think we've actually done it.

the bad news, you still have to answer the question about it...cause it did actually happen......

anyway.

I agree with what you say, especially for fans and those willing to listen. But let's be honest, outsiders don't listen or care that much, the same way we talk about other teams. It's like "yeah they've won 2 in a row, but they are still 4-5 with a horrible loss". Plus we are only part way to proving progress. We have to finish out, or else it will just have been a mirage.

I think recruits aren't swayed much by mediocre wins or losses, especially when the teams we are battling are getting top 25 wins on national tv. Those are the ones that catch eyes. I think those helped us last year.

Anyway, jmo as to why recent progress hasn't done anything for recruiting. It's impressive to us, but I can fully see why non hardcore fans aren't moved much.

Let's win these next 3 and see if the needle is moved by then! I'm thinking 5 in a row would catch eyes.

 

[Kingston Vol]

It's all an unfortunate domino effect.

We lost some we shouldn't have this year...gotta make that up next year. OU would be primo...especially with GA late in the season, we could have a nice looking record heading into that one...

For sure. Bad news is Florida and Oklahoma early in the season pretty much guarantees we start 2-2 and Missouri can certainly beat us.

Best case scenario next season is probably 8-4 or 9-3, realistically. Which would help recruiting but I’m not sure it’s good enough to land a top 5 class.

But the worst case scenario is we start 2-5 going into Arkansas, Kentucky and Georgia.

 

[jakez4ut]

I agree with what you say, especially for fans and those willing to listen. But let's be honest, outsiders don't listen or care that much, the same way we talk about other teams. It's like "yeah they've won 2 in a row, but they are still 4-5 with a horrible loss". Plus we are only part way to proving progress. We have to finish out, or else it will just have been a mirage.

I think recruits aren't swayed much by mediocre wins or losses, especially when the teams we are battling are getting top 25 wins on national tv. Those are the ones that catch eyes. I think those helped us last year.

Anyway, jmo as to why recent progress hasn't done anything for recruiting. It's impressive to us, but I can fully see why non hardcore fans aren't moved much.

Let's win these next 3 and see if the needle is moved by then! I'm thinking 5 in a row would catch eyes.

i think for prospects that are seriously considering TN, they know what's up with how we started compared to where we are right now, which is all that matters.

fan perception, yeah, i think outsiders see our record, L's to BYU and GSU and just go "TN sucks". which is fine. i also would have no problem believing that our beating MSU and USCe to outsiders probably means more about the state of those programs going down hill, than it does about ours moving up it.

but if you're a prospect being recruited by TN, i would imagine you're paying closer attentioin than that.....know what i mean?