Recruiting Forum Football Talk II

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#6,777
#6,777
TrippieRedd said:
We were ready to fire our coach because we thought that our top 5 and 7, 35 player recruiting classes were good and would win championships, when in reality only Dobbs, Kamara, and Barnett were good. No development plus the crappy strength staff every year adds to it.
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That why is particular to Butch, but the why will appear again. There will always be a why. If Pruitt goes 8-4 next year and 8-4 in 2021, guaranteed there will be reasons to have him on the hot seat. I guess that's my point...this time will be no different. Pruitt will get more cracks in the armour and some will dig into them as much as possible and then one year goes south and we'll be ready to blow it up again. Regardless of what it is (short of something deeply systemic or cultural) we may just have to suck it up and ride it out another 3 years and see what stability does.

TrippieRedd said:
It's funny thinking back on it now, everyone including me thought those classes were great, but in reality an 88-89 average recruiting rating isn't very good. Pruitt signed only 23 and had a 90....coming off a 5-7 season and again they are the best players. REMEMBER FOLKS JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE TOP 5 RECRUITING CLASS DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOOD. (Only saying this for the clueless ones that like to say, "Well we had a top 5 class or Butch had top 5 classes, etc." same old dumb s**t from some fans. Anyways not arguing with you, just wanted to say this...again.
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Tbf, a 23 player class should have a higher average. Fewer flyers, more selective. Larger classes, you'd expect the opposite. So a 30 player class with a slightly lower average (89.5) really shouldn't diminish it. Either way, the top 20-25 players hold most of the weight in rankings. Despite some beliefs, having a 30 or 35 player class doesn't really boost those classes much in rankings. They legitimately had 20-25 well rated guys.

For example, if the 2015 class only had 25 guys instead of 30...how far does it drop? Not at all. Still #4. What if it only had 20 players? We only drop 2 spots to #6. Those top 20 in that class were just that well rated. Higher than 2019's best 20. Fwiw, just talking recruiting rankings here, evals aside. Hopefully Pruitt's evals and development are light years beyond Butch's, definitely can't be any worse!
 
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#6,779
#6,779
Devo182 said:
That why is particular to Butch, but the why will appear again. There will always be a why. If Pruitt goes 8-4 next year and 8-4 in 2021, guaranteed there will be reasons to have him on the hot seat. That's my point. Regardless of what it is (short of something deeply systemic or cultural) we may just have to suck it up and ride it out another 3 years and see what stability does.



Tbf, a 23 player class should have a higher average. Fewer flyers, more selective. Larger classes, you'd expect the opposite. Either way, the top 20-25 players hold most of the weight in rankings. Despite some beliefs, having a 30 or 35 player class doesn't really boost those classes much. They legitimately had 20-25 well rated guys.

For example, if the 2015 class only had 25 guys instead of 30...how far does it drop? Not at all. Still #4. What if it only had 20 players? We only drop 2 spots to #6. Those top 20 in that class were just that well rated. Higher than 2019's best 20. Fwiw, just talking recruiting rankings here, evals aside. Hopefully Pruitt's evals and development are light years beyond Butch's.
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Well to be fair, you're looking at as if we are taking the bottom 7-10 players out and making it 25, of course it won't go down much lmfao.
I met you in the middle, I took out Richmond, Perry, Bruce, Oliver, Stewart. 4 that never played here and I picked Richmond because he was a flip and it was random. So that's 25 and a top 8 class...and what do you know an 88 average. Not one team in the top 10 had lower than a 89 something. Not 100% but that 88 is prob good for top 15 that year. If you include the others that left that average goes down, yeah every team has attrition and can say that about any team, but we had more than the average transfer.
Also, 90% of those top 20 weren't rated "Well"
 
#6,780
#6,780
Devo182 said:
That why is particular to Butch, but the why will appear again. There will always be a why. If Pruitt goes 8-4 next year and 8-4 in 2021, guaranteed there will be reasons to have him on the hot seat. I guess that's my point...this time will be no different. Pruitt will get more cracks in the armour and some will dig into them as much as possible and then one year goes south and we'll be ready to blow it up again. Regardless of what it is (short of something deeply systemic or cultural) we may just have to suck it up and ride it out another 3 years and see what stability does.



Tbf, a 23 player class should have a higher average. Fewer flyers, more selective. Larger classes, you'd expect the opposite. So a 30 player class with a slightly lower average (89.5) really shouldn't diminish it. Either way, the top 20-25 players hold most of the weight in rankings. Despite some beliefs, having a 30 or 35 player class doesn't really boost those classes much in rankings. They legitimately had 20-25 well rated guys.

For example, if the 2015 class only had 25 guys instead of 30...how far does it drop? Not at all. Still #4. What if it only had 20 players? We only drop 2 spots to #6. Those top 20 in that class were just that well rated. Higher than 2019's best 20. Fwiw, just talking recruiting rankings here, evals aside. Hopefully Pruitt's evals and development are light years beyond Butch's, definitely can't be any worse!
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You can already tell Pruitt is light years ahead of Butch. The freshmen are better than 90% of the team. We have Jennings, Bituli and Taylor.
 
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#6,781
#6,781
HankHill said:
I honestly don’t see the point in that. You see that those players haven’t really panned out to what their original ratings are.

It’s like If Florida added a transfer in Dillon bates and said it put their 247 class into the top 3
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They were rerated as transfers.

They did bump us from 11th to 10th iirc, adjusting for other teams' transfers (Fields to osu jumped us, while UF dropped off) and taking Anthony Harris off the board.
 
#6,784
#6,784
Devo182 said:
Lol touche
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Also thanks for the convo. I'm really hard headed, so I'm sorry if I'm pushing my opinion a little harshly. Everyone has their own opinion and is right in their own way. We just all want the Vols to be great again, and we will be. Pruitt has a pass from me this season, but losing to GA St. and BYU is still inexcusable. Anyways Go Vols!
 
#6,786
#6,786
TrippieRedd said:
Well to be fair, you're looking at as if we are taking the bottom 7-10 players out and making it 25, of course it won't go down much lmfao.
I met you in the middle, I took out Richmond, Perry, Bruce, Oliver, Stewart. 4 that never played here and I picked Richmond because he was a flip and it was random. So that's 25 and a top 8 class...and what do you know an 88 average. Not one team in the top 10 had lower than a 89 something. Not 100% but that 88 is prob good for top 15 that year. If you include the others that left that average goes down, yeah every team has attrition and can say that about any team, but we had more than the average transfer.
Also, 90% of those top 20 weren't rated "Well"
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It was just a general point on how size over 25 players doesn't have much effect. Didn't really mean to make a specific example, just had to use something.

Not that they'd ever not take Richmond haha but, given your example - that class average would actually rise. To 89.87 and that is with two special teamers. STers can throw off averages off ofc so it can be deceiving. No doubt our longsnapper will lower our average this year, luckily it will hardly matter to rankings.

Your point about attrition is why I didn't like the big classes. LWS tracked attrition across the league and based on class sizes and his research showed a higher PERCENTAGE of attrition when classes got large. I also think this hurt our develoment. It's hard enough teaching 20 freshmen, but 32 like in 2014?? No surprise a quarter of them left in no time and many of the rest developed poorly.
 
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#6,787
#6,787
TrippieRedd said:
Also thanks for the convo. I'm really hard headed, so I'm sorry if I'm pushing my opinion a little harshly. Everyone has their own opinion and is right in their own way. We just all want the Vols to be great again, and we will be. Pruitt has a pass from me this season, but losing to GA St. and BYU is still inexcusable. Anyways Go Vols!
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You're fine, didn't even know you were pushing anything ;) no debate here, just talking shop.

Unfortunate some will take any talk as an argument. I grew up around philosophical folks, so every bit of talk could easily become more of a discussion and discourse, but never was it an argument.
 
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#6,792
#6,792
Bassmaster_Vol said:
You can't turn around a decade of garbage in a year and a half. It doesn't happen.
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You're right. He can weed the garden .

My prediction is this- By the end of this season the team will be exponentially better.
They are going to get better and nastier each week. We are going to get the all clear from the oncologist . The cancer will be gone. Any stragglers will quit or be non-factors as their numbers will have dwindled.
 
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#6,794
#6,794
Weezer said:
It's his pride that should be hurting, if he has any. I know it sure as hell hurt my heart.
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I dont understand why these kids today are so emotionally fragile.....some kids I should say. His attitude and emotional frailty is a red flag for a lot of things.
 
#6,795
#6,795
We are the best fan base in this country. Adams said on Finebaum we are the most loyal fan base, and we are.

Who else packs that stadium last week, after a decade plus of crap product and turnover and made a laughingstock, after that week 1 performance.....................after 4 coaches and hiring's and leavings in the middle of the night and firings that were made to be national jokes..........

The only reason we have a shot at good to great recruits is because of this staff, it ain't our product on the field, or the last 20 years or our beautiful Orange color or us the fans. Even kids in our own state aren't lining up (now, we have interest again though) to play for this once great program.

We need to blame:
The UT Admin and the state for it's opinions and views starting in 2001.
Kiffin
Dooley
Jones
Haslams
for where we are now, but, that does us no good. So, why blame the new guy for inheriting the worst situation in NCAA Division 1 football?

All we can do is chose to keep supporting, or not to. We have no control over anything other than that, and we have been pretty fu***** great fans. So, stay vested, or not, it will not change the trajectory of the program, only maybe save a little personal sanity.

GO VOLS
 
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#6,796
#6,796
titansvolsfaninga said:
I dont understand why these kids today are so emotionally fragile.....some kids I should say. His attitude and emotional frailty is a red flag for a lot of things.
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JG's nickname should be the Tin Man because he plays with no heart. I see little to no emotion from him. Does he care about the team and his teammates? Does he care about the program and its tradition, about the university itself? I don't know because he hasn't shown that he does. Where is the fire and determination? I just haven't seen it.
 
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#6,797
#6,797
tennvols77 said:
We are the best fan base in this country. Adams said on Finebaum we are the most loyal fan base, and we are.

Who else packs that stadium last week, after a decade plus of crap product and turnover and made a laughingstock, after that week 1 performance.....................after 4 coaches and hiring's and leavings in the middle of the night and firings that were made to be national jokes..........

The only reason we have a shot at good to great recruits is because of this staff, it ain't our product on the field, or the last 20 years or our beautiful Orange color or us the fans. Even kids in our own state aren't lining up (now, we have interest again though) to play for this once great program.

We need to blame:
The UT Admin and the state for it's opinions and views starting in 2001.
Kiffin
Dooley
Jones
Haslams
for where we are now, but, that does us no good. So, why blame the new guy for inheriting the worst situation in NCAA Division 1 football?

All we can do is chose to keep supporting, or not to. We have no control over anything other than that, and we have been pretty fu***** great fans. So, stay vested, or not, it will not change the trajectory of the program, only maybe save a little personal sanity.

GO VOLS
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You forgot the revolving door of ADs starting with Hamilton, not to mention we've continuously shopped from the bargain bin refusing to pay big money for anyone proven.
 
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#6,798
#6,798
Weezer said:
You forgot the revolving door of ADs starting with Hamilton, not to mention we've continuously shopped from the bargain bin refusing to pay big money for anyone proven.
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So many reasons lol......I left out academics in the third paragraph too. Figured it would fit into the UT admin and state, oh, there are many many reasons we are where we are and none of it has to do with the current staff.


So much blame, so many places. Even with that, does us no good trying to move forward.
 
#6,799
#6,799
HankHill said:
View attachment 224161

You’ve seen the light.
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Lol...Yeah..I guess so, now that I have seen two games with good to really good OL play and open WRs all over the place..which is the first time we could say that in a long time...

I would have to be just being deliberately, stubbornly obtuse to not admit that the dude is just a bad QB.

He is going to get us slaughtered against good teams pretty much by himself.
 
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#6,800
#6,800
cnick14 said:
Since Saturday’s outcome I’ve been doing a lot of meditating (drinking and crying). During which I’ve finally accepted this is probably a 5 year rebuild. I don’t think I or anyone else really grasped how depleted of talent we were after cbj. I’m going to take this years outcome with a large grain of salt. We have to be patient with this staff and they at all costs have to keep this recruiting class together or else we may never break this cycle.
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Bitch's roster was not just devoid of real talent...it was almost completely devoided of determination and effort...except for a small handful of guys like JJ.


It was rotten to the core.
 
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