Duncan Hunter Indicted

#126
#126
C-south said:
“Even before taking office in January 2009, Obama had signed on to the previous Bush administration's drastic, but politically unpopular, plan to directly infuse up to $700 billion in taxpayer-backed loans into the U.S. banking industry.“
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05_never_again said:
TARP was passed in 2008, before Barry was elected. Obama supported it, as did McCain and politicians from both parties, but it was enacted before the election that year.
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LOL @C-south
 
#127
#127
Septic said:
If you're going to give him credit for helping the economy with lowered taxes, you'll also need to address his hindrance of the economy with tariffs which far outweigh the effects of the tax cuts.
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I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.
 
#130
#130
C-south said:
Trump had a direct hand in lowering taxes which have helped the economy. Barry bailed out banks and industries so they could give themselves huge bonuses.
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Trump has also had a hand in boosting the stock market... but that is much easier to do when all of your concerns are economical. There is no doubt that Trump's deregulations have helped boost many company stocks by a great deal.. but the EPA has loosened restrictions on air pollution to such an extreme, that even if a company does pollute over the legal limit, there are virtually no longer any penalties. The incentive for companies to find innovative means to reduce pollution is gone. Of course, that will help boost the stock market... but the long term cost of that is never considered by this administration.
 
#133
#133
ajvol01 said:
Any evidence or just another liberal talking point?

China is subsidizing companies exporting to US.
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Of course not, anything that would dare disparage trumps tariffs would assuredly be labeled a partisan rag by your ilk.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that taxing Chinese goods is going to cause American's to pay more for goods and services.

That's why we buy their crap, it's way cheaper.

Read that last sentence again.
 
#134
#134
Septic said:
Of course not, anything that would dare disparage trumps tariffs would assuredly be labeled a partisan rag by your ilk.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that taxing Chinese goods is going to cause American's to pay more for goods and services.

That's why we buy their crap, it's way cheaper.

Read that last sentence again.
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Oh noes. Dollar Tree is going to be impacted by Tariffs.

This is more “sky is falling” propaganda nonsense by media that opposes 95% of what Trump says or does.

More predictions with zero evidence.

This quote says they calculated $800/yr per household.

A recent study calculated that the 25 percent tariffs imposed on imports from China would cost the average American household more than $800 a year. Tariffs scheduled to take effect June 10, 2019, on goods from Mexico would only add to the toll. (Luke Sharrett/Luke Sharrett/Bloomberg News)
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What goods have actually increased in cost? I’ve seen zero details about how the tariffs are having a significant negative impact on the bottom line of American citizens.

What costs more today than in 2016 due to tariffs? I’ll wait.
 
#135
#135
ajvol01 said:
Oh noes. Dollar Tree is going to be impacted by Tariffs.

This is more “sky is falling” propaganda nonsense by media that opposes 95% of what Trump says or does.

More predictions with zero evidence.

This quote says they calculated $800/yr per household.



What goods have actually increased in cost? I’ve seen zero details about how the tariffs are having a significant negative impact on the bottom line of American citizens.

What costs more today than in 2016 due to tariffs? I’ll wait.
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Out of all of your ridiculous posts (and there are many) this one puts your ignorance on full display. If you really aren't bright enough to wrap your head around how tariffs fundamentally apply pressure to the prices of imported goods then not only do you lack common sense, you’ve made every civics and economics educator you have ever had weep.

I refuse to believe that an human adult would be so myopic as to not comprehend how hundreds of billions in artificially applied tariffs to the largest supplier of raw material and goods would not impact the end consumer. This, despite scores of articles and studies outlining the impact of the tariffs effects.

Is it your belief that consumers will just not consume Chinese products? Or that retailers and manufacturers will absorb the cost of tariffed goods? The irony here is that some of the first that will notice the effects are those the shop at the 'soon to be much more than a' Dollar Tree you mentioned.
 
#136
#136
Septic said:
Of course not, anything that would dare disparage trumps tariffs would assuredly be labeled a partisan rag by your ilk.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that taxing Chinese goods is going to cause American's to pay more for goods and services.

That's why we buy their crap, it's way cheaper.

Read that last sentence again.
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We buy there because yes, it is cheaper, and for me, I'll stick to the manufacturing side, not finished goods companies are buying direct and importing and selling, where products are imported because American companies in these markets (and many of those companies are importing direct as well) are either vertically or horizontally integrating into their business and these components/parts/packaging aren't competitive if they bought from American suppliers and producers.

I have a buddy that imports hundreds of thousands of metric tons of FCL (full container loads) of multiple types of products and parts from China that he resells to all types of large manufacturers from many industries. All types of waxes, production parts, packaging......all of them (pricing) are at a 10 year low, and the vendors are paying duty and taxes, and some, even the freight.

Now, are these savings from these companies who sell on the American market going to lower their price, or cause them to do anything other than make sure quarterly projections and earnings are met and beaten?

Now, is this true with all products and markets, probably not, but, there are a lot of things happening and there are benefits being taken on by many manufacturers of many products that are in every store across the country.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, it is cheaper to import a lot of things because American companies are choosing to buy cheaper than any American manufacturer or supplier or vendor can provide to them.
 
#137
#137
The tariffs are forcing the Chinese to have to lower pricing to keep their demand static, or at least minimize the loss due to tariffs. It's created a more competitive market in certain area's.

It is a positive affect. But, companies here aren't going to change their business model to adjust, rather, take the savings provided for how ever long, and be happy they could.

You are correct Septic, tariffs aren't the best thing, but also remember there are advantages especially from the production side, not finished goods, where there are a decreases in pricing due to the reaction to the tariff as well.
 
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#138
#138
tennvols77 said:
The tariffs are forcing the Chinese to have to lower pricing to keep their demand static, or at least minimize the loss due to tariffs. It's created a more competitive market in certain area's.

It is a positive affect. But, companies here aren't going to change their business model to adjust, rather, take the savings provided for how ever long, and be happy they could.

You are correct Septic, tariffs aren't the best thing, but also remember there are advantages especially from the production side, not finished goods, where there are a decreases in pricing due to the reaction to the tariff as well.
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Trump is using them like a stable genius. Very effectively.:) Many forget that he does understand how business works nationally and internationally.
 
#139
#139
tennvols77 said:
The tariffs are forcing the Chinese to have to lower pricing to keep their demand static, or at least minimize the loss due to tariffs. It's created a more competitive market in certain area's.

It is a positive affect. But, companies here aren't going to change their business model to adjust, rather, take the savings provided for how ever long, and be happy they could.

You are correct Septic, tariffs aren't the best thing, but also remember there are advantages especially from the production side, not finished goods, where there are a decreases in pricing due to the reaction to the tariff as well.
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I'm not following, what are the advantages to the consumer are tariffs causing on the production side? Outside of political leverage, tariffs serve as a roadblock to a thriving economy and I don't see how setting your house on fire in hopes that a little smoke blows into your neighbors eyes is a good idea. Ask your buddy how long he expects his vendors to keep eating 25% of what used to be profit before they pass it along to the consumer.
 
#140
#140
Septic said:
I'm not following, what are the advantages to the consumer are tariffs causing on the production side? Outside of political leverage, tariffs serve as a roadblock to a thriving economy and I don't see how setting your house on fire in hopes that a little smoke blows into your neighbors eyes is a good idea. Ask your buddy how long he expects his vendors to keep eating 25% of what used to be profit before they pass it along to the consumer.
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The savings are going into the American companies, manufacturers in all types of industries ranging from any type of small production part( like engines for lawn mowers) to the packaging used to put their products for a lot major label name brands. The companies in America are not passing these savings on, nor are they raising prices.

The Chinese vendors will continue to do everything to keep market share and stay competitive (cheaper than domestically) with American companies for how ever long they deem necessary, and considering the Chinese Government is basically involved in some matter with every company and can "manipulate" companies ability to stay in business, let alone remain competitive it probably will not change.

The American consumer is basically being held at water level, not seeing increases in many products that they don't understand will have a component or some or many that make up a lot of American finished goods/products.

The American suppliers still are not competitive, and if the Chinese were not willing to try and keep the previous demands close to being met at or close to the original costs before the tariff, then the American companies would start to take on more costs at some level of production by buying domestic, and then would thus, because they aren't going to do any favors for the American public, raise their prices for their products, both to other companies they might sell parts to, or to the end products being sold to the public.
 
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#141
#141
tennvols77 said:
The savings are going into the American companies, manufacturers in all types of industries ranging from any type of small production part( like engines for lawn mowers) to the packaging used to put their products for a lot major label name brands. The companies in America are not passing these savings on, nor are they raising prices.

The Chinese vendors will continue to do everything to keep market share and stay competitive (cheaper than domestically) with American companies for how ever long they deem necessary, and considering the Chinese Government is basically involved in some matter with every company and can "manipulate" companies ability to stay in business, let alone remain competitive it probably will not change.

The American consumer is basically being held at water level, not seeing increases in many products that they don't understand will have a component or some or many that make up a lot of American finished goods/products.

The American suppliers still are not competitive, and if the Chinese were not willing to try and keep the previous demands close to being met at or close to the original costs before the tariff, then the American companies would start to take on more costs at some level of production by buying domestic, and then would thus, because they aren't going to do any favors for the American public, raise their prices for their products, both to other companies they might sell parts to, or to the end products being sold to the public.
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What savings? You'll need to elaborate on where hundreds of billions in tariffs are causing savings to American manufacturers who buy Chinese material.

You're asserting that Chinese manufactures are lowering sales costs, yet American companies that take the goods or raw material, furniture, consumer electronics, appliances etc don't seem to agree as evidence by the article I cited previously. No one will disagree that a domestic manufacturer or vendor can choose to absorb the higher costs, it's simply a matter of how long they will choose to do it before allowing the consumer being held "at water level", to sink.

Not very long, I suspect. It's happening:

Consumers are already seeing price hikes from the last round of Trump’s tariffs

Goldman Sachs said the risk of a final round of tariffs on roughly $300 billion of remaining imports from China has now risen to 30%.

Walmart Says Price Increases Are Coming Due to China Tariff

An increasing number of major US companies are warning that tariffs may force them to raise prices

Macy's CEO warns that the trade war could force the department store to raise prices

173 Shoe Manufacturers


GoldmanCPI%20chart.1557757493694.PNG
 
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#143
#143
@Septic, I can tell you some stuff offline with specific info and explain in depth to where you'll see what I'm getting at if above didn't do it, more than willing to personally discuss with you.
 
#144
#144
BigOrangeD said:
Trump is using them like a stable genius. Very effectively.:) Many forget that he does understand how business works nationally and internationally.
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LOL

Trumps business acumen is a joke. The extent of his international experience resides in licensing his name to buildings. I recall reading an apt description where "the master of debt" was born on third base, inherited $200m and tells everyone he hit a home-run with a Popsicle stick.
 
#145
#145
Septic said:
What savings? You'll need to elaborate on where hundreds of billions in tariffs are causing savings to American manufacturers who buy Chinese material.
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Yes, companies who exist to manufacture, or import finished goods, are the ones facing the issue you are talking about, you are correct. 100%. And yes, the are a lot of ramifications on many products that arise from importing finished goods.

The savings I'm talking about:
Company makes engines for other American OEM companies that use engine to put into their product, say air conditioner or HVAC or weed eaters.

The Chinese company produces a widget, a small piece that goes into the engine being made and finished here by one company, that is then selling finished motor to the other American OEM. The domestic companies who can produce the little widget can not meet the pricing from China.

So, even though the American middle man is saving money for the major OEM, and the American OEM is not taking on more costs in a step in production from them, if they were forced, by the tariffs, to have to now buy the little widget from someone domestically, they might raise prices, but, because the savings from China, and now no added costs into their production, they can keep those ac's and HVAC and weed eaters at the same price point (or they are now making a little bit more on the finished good for their bottom line), thus, not raising prices, but, keeping pricing static.

So the "savings" are nothing more than merely not raising prices (although the american company could decide to lower costs but won't because it is basically free profit). It is still a savings (keeping pricing static) versus the other option of purely domestic purchasing where pricing would be raised on finished good, and the company can decide to either pass on the new added costs, or, they will be absorbed by manufacturer without passing on.

So, semantically, what I'm getting at is there a lot of products that could go up in price because the tariff forces domestic purchasing of many different parts that currently can't be cost comparative vs. importing. "Savings" are that the products aren't being sold for more because the tariff forced China to adapt and lower to stay competitve, where as any change to domestic purchasing would add costs that compnaies would have toeither eat, or pass on, which they don't have to because China worked around tariff to keep business.
 
#146
#146
Septic, a short phone call would be more effective and easier than trying to condense and stay vague and avoid these long ass posts....sorry LOL.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. Just saying that across the board, especially in terms of imported finished goods which are most affected and have most effects, there are a lot of other things that aren't being affectded and could actually see a decrease in price if American company wanted to pass on instead of pocketing.

Should have just posted above paragrapgh to begin with....sorry for taking up so much space here guys lol.
 
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#147
#147
Septic said:
LOL

Trumps business acumen is a joke. The extent of his international experience resides in licensing his name to buildings. I recall reading an apt description where "the master of debt" was born on third base, inherited $200m and tells everyone he hit a home-run with a Popsicle stick.
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I don't think you know Trump as well as you think.
 
#148
#148
tennvols77 said:
Yes, companies who exist to manufacture, or import finished goods, are the ones facing the issue you are talking about, you are correct. 100%. And yes, the are a lot of ramifications on many products that arise from importing finished goods.

The savings I'm talking about:
Company makes engines for other American OEM companies that use engine to put into their product, say air conditioner or HVAC or weed eaters.

The Chinese company produces a widget, a small piece that goes into the engine being made and finished here by one company, that is then selling finished motor to the other American OEM. The domestic companies who can produce the little widget can not meet the pricing from China.

So, even though the American middle man is saving money for the major OEM, and the American OEM is not taking on more costs in a step in production from them, if they were forced, by the tariffs, to have to now buy the little widget from someone domestically, they might raise prices, but, because the savings from China, and now no added costs into their production, they can keep those ac's and HVAC and weed eaters at the same price point (or they are now making a little bit more on the finished good for their bottom line), thus, not raising prices, but, keeping pricing static.

So the "savings" are nothing more than merely not raising prices (although the american company could decide to lower costs but won't because it is basically free profit). It is still a savings (keeping pricing static) versus the other option of purely domestic purchasing where pricing would be raised on finished good, and the company can decide to either pass on the new added costs, or, they will be absorbed by manufacturer without passing on.

So, semantically, what I'm getting at is there a lot of products that could go up in price because the tariff forces domestic purchasing of many different parts that currently can't be cost comparative vs. importing. "Savings" are that the products aren't being sold for more because the tariff forced China to adapt and lower to stay competitve, where as any change to domestic purchasing would add costs that compnaies would have toeither eat, or pass on, which they don't have to because China worked around tariff to keep business.
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Your assumption hinges on the Chinese lowering there pricing and that's not happening. Instead the Chinese government is letting the yuan devalue while cutting tariffs to other country's to help offset the cost heartburn. Our pain, will ultimately be much worse than theirs. This all goes back to the original point, the tariffs will cost US consumers more than the 2017 tax cuts will bring.
 
#149
#149
Septic said:
Your assumption hinges on the Chinese lowering there pricing and that's not happening. Instead the Chinese government is letting the yuan devalue while cutting tariffs to other country's to help offset the cost heartburn. Our pain, will ultimately be much worse than theirs. This all goes back to the original point, the tariffs will cost US consumers more than the 2017 tax cuts will bring.
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But it is happening, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Once again, for finished goods that are sneakers and clothing and toys and nail polish and such, yes, you are 100% correct. On the part about lowered costs associated with many other things that are not finished goods, you are wrong. There is no assumption, I'm witnessing it.
 
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#150
#150
tennvols77 said:
But it is happening, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Once again, for finished goods that are sneakers and clothing and toys and nail polish and such, yes, you are 100% correct. On the part about lowered costs associated with many other things that are not finished goods, you are wrong. There is no assumption, I'm witnessing it.
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Trump just ramped up tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods. Here are all the products that will get hit.

There are a lot of unfinished/raw materials on this list. if you aren't seeing it anecdotally, give it time.

 
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