5* recruiting (debunked)

#176
#176
butchna said:
Here’s another...Clemson built it’s championship ROSTERS without being an annual fixture in the top 10. Star johns can’t see past the recent. Deshaun Watson’s 2014 class? 16th. 2015 got into that top 10 at 9...back down to 11 the next...and 16th in 2017 before # 10 last year. Facts be crazy. 😎
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Best developers in CFB iyam. OU up there too (at least on offense), though some of that is schematic.
 
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#177
#177
bamawriter said:
You keep saying that, but you're a little vague on what needs to change.
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That's because I don't want to air anything that people don't know about the political side of recruiting. That's why I said earlier that "there's a reason "The Opening " is closed to the public." Ask your buddy what REALLY happened last yr in Dallas. If he's truthful he'll tell you.
 
#181
#181
1vol8 said:
That's because I don't want to air anything that people don't know about the political side of recruiting. That's why I said earlier that "there's a reason "The Opening " is closed to the public." Ask your buddy what REALLY happened last yr in Dallas. If he's truthful he'll tell you.
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1. He's not my buddy. I know him like I know a lot of folks in the world of CFB.

2. You seem to have some kind of personal issue with all of this.
 
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#183
#183
Not a fan of beating the dead horse but sometimes it's necessary I guess.

THE FICTIONAL RECRUIT..good lawd!

Talk about willful ignorance.

Kid's profile wasn't real.
Ranked completely off of a fictional Bama offer.
The owner admitted they went off of the offer "like it's common to do".

The coaches lead, the sites follow. Doesn't matter if some here refuse to admit it, they already did.
 
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#184
#184
1vol8 said:
So let me get this straight..... if any team that wants to compete for a NC needs a top 10 class every yr, are we saying that Butch Jones could take over in Alabama, do things his way and win a natty?
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Logical fallacy. We are saying having enough recruited talent is typically needed to win an NC. Not that because you recruit enough talent you will win an NC. Just that it is a rough prerequisite.
 
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#185
#185
99gator said:
In quantity, there is quality. I don't know how many times this has to be explained to people.

Recruiting is not everything. Recruiting just ensures a fair fight. You are not going to be the only one with talent in the SEC.

But, put together mediocre recruiting class after mediocre recruiting class and see how that pans out.

Woudln't be pretty
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Or else everyone here will have to admit Kirby is the best coach in the East lol. Not just a recruiter with absurd amounts of in-state talent.
 
#186
#186
butchna said:
And you don’t get to where you load up on that egghead rated talent until you build a team that they’ll flock to...chicken egg ****. You build with evaluated talent and never lose that ability to evaluate. That’s what helped undo Fulmer. He started letting the services devise his recruiting strategy.
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Yeah Saban built the greatest football dynasty with 3*s right? I guess it’s just a coincidence that his evaluations include tons of highly rated players. Same with Meyer.
 
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#187
#187
1vol8 said:
That's kind of the point as well. I want to make it clear that there is nothing WRONG with a top 10 class or signing multiple 5* players. What Im trying to get through to a few on here is a 3* recruit is likely under evaluated by 247 if he happens to play on a bad team. You can take that same 3* and put him in a HS powerhouse program and all of a sudden he's a 4* or better yet hes no different of a player(seen it happen several times). You can't properly evaluate any player based on highlight film and camps. You also can't properly evaluate a player without considering his situation around him in the fall. The same can be said for blue chip players as well. Due to the school they play for they tend to get overrated a lot(not all). JG is a prime example of this. His stats were not 4* status but his school was a pretty good one. Now I've only seen highlights so it's hard to say he DIDN'T deserve his rank but the individual stats didn't look like most 4* qbs stats. Point is too many people put too much faith in 247 and not enough in the coaches that actually DO know how to evaluate and actually DO go to a game or 2.
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So 247 should bump more based on offers? That is why people dog them in the first place lol. To be honest, I don't mind that and think it actually makes sense. Why not bump someone that was just offered by Nick Saban if he is terribly low rated?

But we are talking anecdotes. Which is also reason for hope or despair on specific commits. I get that. Just saying you will, overall, need more stars than your opponents if you are to succeed.

That is why I'm fine if we take 1 or 2 85-rated guys. Ok, whatever. But if our class average is 88 or 89, then we are talking about deeper problems. That isn't how championship teams typically recruit. All 4 playoff teams last year were in the Blue Chip Ratio group (> 50% blue chips).
 
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#188
#188
bamawriter said:
1. He's not my buddy. I know him like I know a lot of folks in the world of CFB.

2. You seem to have some kind of personal issue with all of this.
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I have no problem with you or any of this. I enjoy talking football. But When it comes to kids and competition and the playing field isn't level I do. As for 247, Its not just them. It's all of them. If it were a fair and thorough process I wouldn't have a problem in the world. But it's neither.
 
#189
#189
BigOrangeTrain said:
Yeah Saban built the greatest football dynasty with 3*s right? I guess it’s just a coincidence that his evaluations include tons of highly rated players. Same with Meyer.
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Mostly yes. Alabama did suck at one time if you can remember back that far. But I would bet my bottom dollar he started with mostly 3/4* kids.
 
#190
#190
1vol8 said:
I have no problem with you or any of this. I enjoy talking football. But When it comes to kids and competition and the playing field isn't level I do. As for 247, Its not just them. It's all of them. If it were a fair and thorough process I wouldn't have a problem in the world. But it's neither.
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I'm not sure what "fair" has to do with it. No self-respecting college staff is basing their offers off the recruiting sites.
 
#191
#191
BigOrangeTrain said:
Yeah Saban built the greatest football dynasty with 3*s right? I guess it’s just a coincidence that his evaluations include tons of highly rated players. Same with Meyer.
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No matter how many times I read butchna's post, I just can't figure out how you walked away with this interpretation. lol

One of us is way off on what he was saying.
 
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#193
#193
Devo182 said:
Logical fallacy. We are saying having enough recruited talent is typically needed to win an NC. Not that because you recruit enough talent you will win an NC. Just that it is a rough prerequisite.
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I understand what you're saying. But some are calling it necessity to be a top 10 recruiting program to win a natty. Im saying you can win one without a top 10 recruiting program and all it takes is the RIGHT players regardless of rank or stars if you have a great coach. Some disagree so I asked if Butch can win one at Alabama with his philosophy. Simple yes or no question
 
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#195
#195
1vol8 said:
I understand what you're saying. But some are calling it necessity to be a top 10 recruiting program to win a natty. Im saying you can win one without a top 10 recruiting program and all it takes is the RIGHT players regardless of rank or stars if you have a great coach. Some disagree so I asked if Butch can win one at Alabama with his philosophy. Simple yes or no question
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Can you give an example of a team that won a NC without recruiting at or around the Top 10? If you already have, I apologize. I haven't read the entire thread.
 
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#197
#197
bamawriter said:
Can you give an example of a team that won a NC without recruiting at or around the Top 10? If you already have, I apologize. I haven't read the entire thread.
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That's actually a better question for Butchna. Ive learned he's alot father along in the history and inner workings of college football than I am. But I'm sure theres gotta be one at some point.
 
#198
#198
Devo182 said:
To be fair, Butch was paid millions too, as was Dooley, and many other staffs. This argument that they are paid highly, therefore are reeling in the best guys just doesn't (and can't) add up. Only so many talented kids, while there are dozens of million dollar staffs.

Though I think Pruitt is well known as an elite evaluator, so I am more inclined to roll with his takes.

That all said, the "trust the coaches" approach assumes just because we offered a kid and he committed, that makes him better than his ranking. The fact is we have offered 400+ kids. So, if we offered, let's say, 40 DBs and 1 lowly mid 3-star commits, some will say "trust the staff". But let's be real - what if that DB was 30th on our board of 40 DB prospects? When we are offering SO many kids, it becomes harder to accept trusting them every time.

And this has nothing to do with this staff - just pointing out how this argument may be flawed.
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I see your point, but let's be honest here. While we may be offering 400 kids, the majority are not commitable. Most are conditional. Staff may offer a kid but need to see his senior season or see him at camp. I consider it casting a wide net. Showing kids a little leg so to speak.

As for Butch/Doofus vs Pruitt, consider the resume. Butch never played the sport. His resume has Central Michigan and Cinci. He basically rode the coattails of Brian Kelly.

Pruitt OTOH has a much better history. Played the game at Bama. Successful coaching stops at FSU, UGA and Bama. Just see no realistic comparison between the two. Butch was a fraud. Time will tell, but I'll still take Pruitt's eval over Rivals, 247, etc
 
#200
#200
1vol8 said:
That's actually a better question for Butchna. Ive learned he's alot father along in the history and inner workings of college football than I am. But I'm sure theres gotta be one at some point.
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The recruting sites are only a couple of decades old. It wouldn't take long to look it up.
 
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