5* recruiting (debunked)

[Volsfaninva917]

I love when Volnation tries to justify our dysfunction, when we should just own it. Tennessee is off to a slow start in recruiting, past recruiting classes didn't pan out due to lack of development under the previous regime, Tennessee has lost almost all of it's football credibility, Pruitt is going to have to work miracles to get it back and this year is going to be another tough year. The recruits that Pruitt is trying to attract here weren't even alive the last time Tennessee was relevant. Not to paint a dark picture but we're in line with Colorado when it comes to football, Nebraska has at least had mediocre success since their down fall.

 

[1vol8]

Now if someone could just figure out how to know to pick those guys without hindsight. And look at where all those 3* that were drafted were taken verses the fact that most of the 1st and 2nd round picks are 4 and 5* guys. Big difference between drafted and drafted in 1st round.

Where they were drafted has no weight against the overall point. Im clearly pointing out that the recruiting services dont thoroughly evaluate the players they "rank". They do all of their measuring off of highlights, camps, overall team record and stats. They DO NOT look at full game tape nor will you ever see a representative at a HS football game. So how do they really KNOW. They don't.
The players listed are listed as a hypothetical roster on one team. My question is if they were all on UTs roster who fo you have your money on vs Bama or Clemson?

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

Just one word...

Colton Jumper.

 

[GlockVol]

Just one word...

Colton Jumper.

I know it's early, but isn't that 2 words? Lol

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

I know it's early, but isn't that 2 words? Lol

Just work with me here. As my dear departed Mom used to say, "There's a method to my madness." .

 

[The Original Fade]

The thread was posted a few days ago suggesting we don't have a chance without 5* recruits. So I took to google to find out how right he could be and decided, instead of debating a percentage of what I learned based on a comment here and there, why not put it all on here? So here we go.

Let's see how we would feel about this hypothetical roster at UT back in the day.

Qb1 Arron Rodgers
Qb2 Matt Ryan
Rb1 Levion Bell
Wr. Mike Evans
OL Travis Frederick
OL. Trent Williams
TE. Travis Kelsey

C. Richard Sherman
DL Von Miller
DL Arron Donald
DL Cliff Avril
All 3* recruits and that's just the probowl.

According to 247 we shouldnt be talking about 2* talent such as Aquib Talib or Kalil Mack because they are less likely to go pro.

Even less talk is deserved for the bottom feeders (unranked) such as Tony Romo and Tom Brady.

Ive never been a believer in the recruiting services for reasons unimportant (although one reason should already be clear). But if you choose to believe a panel full of guys that went to school to learn how to do this from a book, be my guest. I'll trust my own eyes and experience along with the coaching staff that trust the same things over what some pencil pusher says they are.

Actually, I couldn’t care less about their NFL potential. But the fact remains, if you take the top 10 ranked teams at the end of any year and look at their recruiting success according to recruiting class rankings, there’s a STRONG CORRELATION. It’s a fact that can’t be disputed.

 

[butchna]

I love when Volnation tries to justify our dysfunction, when we should just own it. Tennessee is off to a slow start in recruiting, past recruiting classes didn't pan out due to lack of development under the previous regime, Tennessee has lost almost all of it's football credibility, Pruitt is going to have to work miracles to get it back and this year is going to be another tough year. The recruits that Pruitt is trying to attract here weren't even alive the last time Tennessee was relevant. Not to paint a dark picture but we're in line with Colorado when it comes to football, Nebraska has at least had mediocre success since their down fall.

Kicked their ass most recently. And that devastating 8 loss season for us...two straight for Nebraska. And we still outrecruited them.

 

[njvols]

The thread was posted a few days ago suggesting we don't have a chance without 5* recruits. So I took to google to find out how right he could be and decided, instead of debating a percentage of what I learned based on a comment here and there, why not put it all on here? So here we go.

Let's see how we would feel about this hypothetical roster at UT back in the day.

Qb1 Arron Rodgers
Qb2 Matt Ryan
Rb1 Levion Bell
Wr. Mike Evans
OL Travis Frederick
OL. Trent Williams
TE. Travis Kelsey

C. Richard Sherman
DL Von Miller
DL Arron Donald
DL Cliff Avril
All 3* recruits and that's just the probowl.

According to 247 we shouldnt be talking about 2* talent such as Aquib Talib or Kalil Mack because they are less likely to go pro.

Even less talk is deserved for the bottom feeders (unranked) such as Tony Romo and Tom Brady.

Ive never been a believer in the recruiting services for reasons unimportant (although one reason should already be clear). But if you choose to believe a panel full of guys that went to school to learn how to do this from a book, be my guest. I'll trust my own eyes and experience along with the coaching staff that trust the same things over what some pencil pusher says they are.

I understand your point...If we get the right 3*'s, that's the key. For example, I like how it seems that Pruitt wants to certainly see any 3* in camp before offering. That will help.

All this being said, yes, there's 3*'s littered all over the NFL, but the the more 4's and 5's you have on your team, the lesser chance they are a bust...see UGA, Bama, Clemson, LSU

 

[CAVPUT]

Making this more complex than it needs to be. These ratings are a business for Hubbs, 247 and ESPN. Boil it all down and you're left with the evaluation of this coaching staff vs guys like Hubbs, 247 and ESPN.

If Pruitt thinks he can win with a kid, I don't give a damn what "star" rating Hubbs and his ilk assign to a player especially when you consider the depth of the profile compiled by Pruitt and staff (built over several years of evaluation btw) vs that of 247, Rivals, etc.

3.5 mil per year vs $9.99 per month. I know whose opinion I'm going with.

 

[GlockVol]

Just work with me here. As my dear departed Mom used to say, "There's a method to my madness." .

LOL, I couldn't resist. I knew if I didn't, someone else would.

 

[pasadenavol]

Well regardless of whether or not a 4 or 5 star recruit is that much better than a 3 star, looks like the talent is getting better. According to the home page of VN, we only had 5 4/5 stars on the '17 roster, 9 on the '18 roster, and 13 on the '19 roster. Here's to that consistent increase continuing and 17 on the '20 roster! (5+4=9+4=13+4=17)

 

[CAVPUT]

I love when Volnation tries to justify our dysfunction, when we should just own it. Tennessee is off to a slow start in recruiting, past recruiting classes didn't pan out due to lack of development under the previous regime, Tennessee has lost almost all of it's football credibility, Pruitt is going to have to work miracles to get it back and this year is going to be another tough year. The recruits that Pruitt is trying to attract here weren't even alive the last time Tennessee was relevant. Not to paint a dark picture but we're in line with Colorado when it comes to football, Nebraska has at least had mediocre success since their down fall.

I'm going to disagree. Many have speculated that we're making the in-state recruits a priority and we should. These kids know they've got a spot locked up so they're in no rush. Sounds logical and reasonable to me. Pruitt has to start locking down the in-state kids. He's doing exactly what he has to. No choice really. If that doesn't jive with a timeline that fans want/expect, so be it.

Until Pruitt knows how things are going to fall in-state, his hands are tied to a degree. I suspect he's got a group of kids in-state that are his foundation for this class. Once they fall..one way or the other...he's then going to need to adjust the rest of this class accordingly. It's akin to putting together a materials list for a new house when you don't have the plans/dimensions of the construction.

Hell, even if they do commit right this minute, that's not binding. Maybe wait to judge the man on signing day? Personally, I'd wait until the class graduated to grade it.

 

[The Original Fade]

Well regardless of whether or not a 4 or 5 star recruit is that much better than a 3 star, looks like the talent is getting better. According to the home page of VN, we only had 5 4/5 stars on the '17 roster, 9 on the '18 roster, and 13 on the '19 roster. Here's to that consistent increase continuing and 17 on the '20 roster! (5+4=9+4=13+4=17)

Having only 5 4/5 star players on the 2017 roster at a program like Tennessee is probably the most embarrassing thing I’ve read in quite a while. Still can’t believe our admin seriously thought Butch Jones was the best we could do at the time of that hire. And about a fifth of posters here had usernames with some sort of Butch moniker. That’s even more embarrassing

 

[The Original Fade]

Well regardless of whether or not a 4 or 5 star recruit is that much better than a 3 star, looks like the talent is getting better. According to the home page of VN, we only had 5 4/5 stars on the '17 roster, 9 on the '18 roster, and 13 on the '19 roster. Here's to that consistent increase continuing and 17 on the '20 roster! (5+4=9+4=13+4=17)

Having only 5 4/5 star players on the 2017 roster at a program like Tennessee is probably the most embarrassing thing I’ve read in quite a while. Still can’t believe our admin seriously thought Butch Jones was the best we could do at the time of that hire. And about a fifth of posters here had usernames with some sort of Butch moniker. That’s even more embarrassing

 

[GetEmVols]

There is more lower stars than that of 4 and 5* guys. Alabama, Clemson, Georgia etc have proven blue chips win championships.



Are some higher rated plays overrated? Yes. Are some lower guys overlooked, for whatever reason? Yes

But don't kid yourself, we need highly rated players

When did Georgia prove that?

 

[OrangeByBirth]

If you bring gold-plated 12 star recruits and don't put them in a position to succeed, they will fail. Just consider the players that deserted the sinking ship in recent years. Getting the talent is half the battle. Coaching them to win is the other half.

 

[CAVPUT]

I understand your point...If we get the right 3*'s, that's the key. For example, I like how it seems that Pruitt wants to certainly see any 3* in camp before offering. That will help.

All this being said, yes, there's 3*'s littered all over the NFL, but the the more 4's and 5's you have on your team, the lesser chance they are a bust...see UGA, Bama, Clemson, LSU

The flipside to that line of thinking is that the so-called recruiting experts missed on the 3 star ranked players but a coach knew what he was seeing and got it right. Always two ways or more to see a situation. If Hubbs misses(and I'm using him as an example not bashing him), he might lose a $9.99 per month or two subscription. If a coach misses enough of those, he might be losing a multi-million dollar contract. I'm sure the profile a coaching staff at the SEC level compiles on a recruit is far more thorough and extensive than those put together by folks at these services. Not saying either is always right or wrong, but given the amount of time, energy and research a coaching staff puts into a kid, I think it's really an easy choice on who to trust. Each and every scholarship is gold to a coaching staff. They aren't inclined to take a chance on a prospect. They're looking for as close to a sure thing as they can find with each one.

Hell, look at the so-called talent Butch and his team of evaluators brought to UT. Stars all over the place, but look at the results. Time will tell with Pruitt and co, but if I'm being honest, I think a guy who actually played the game and coached at UGA, FSU and Bama might have a better eye for football talent than a guy who saw the field at halftime with the rest of the damned marching band in high school.

 

[butchna]

Actually, I couldn’t care less about their NFL potential. But the fact remains, if you take the top 10 ranked teams at the end of any year and look at their recruiting success according to recruiting class rankings, there’s a STRONG CORRELATION. It’s a fact that can’t be disputed.

Here’s another...Clemson built it’s championship ROSTERS without being an annual fixture in the top 10. Star johns can’t see past the recent. Deshaun Watson’s 2014 class? 16th. 2015 got into that top 10 at 9...back down to 11 the next...and 16th in 2017 before # 10 last year. Facts be crazy.

 

[butchna]

Having only 5 4/5 star players on the 2017 roster at a program like Tennessee is probably the most embarrassing thing I’ve read in quite a while. Still can’t believe our admin seriously thought Butch Jones was the best we could do at the time of that hire. And about a fifth of posters here had usernames with some sort of Butch moniker. That’s even more embarrassing

Yours is great tho...nothing embarrassing about you.

 

[chargervol]

Here’s another...Clemson built it’s championship ROSTERS without being an annual fixture in the top 10. Star johns can’t see past the recent. Deshaun Watson’s 2014 class? 16th. 2015 got into that top 10 at 9...back down to 11 the next...and 16th in 2017 before # 10 last year. Facts be crazy.

Was surprised the op didn't just use Clemson VS Bama recruiting rankings to make his point.

 

[butchna]

Was surprised the op didn't just use Clemson VS Bama recruiting rankings to make his point.

Cuz it wouldn’t have.

 

[VolForLife83]

Making this more complex than it needs to be. These ratings are a business for Hubbs, 247 and ESPN. Boil it all down and you're left with the evaluation of this coaching staff vs guys like Hubbs, 247 and ESPN.

If Pruitt thinks he can win with a kid, I don't give a damn what "star" rating Hubbs and his ilk assign to a player especially when you consider the depth of the profile compiled by Pruitt and staff (built over several years of evaluation btw) vs that of 247, Rivals, etc.

3.5 mil per year vs $9.99 per month. I know whose opinion I'm going with.

I know we're all high on Pruitt, but we still have to wait and see. With that said. How many millions are we paying Sabans window washer?

 

[VolForLife83]

When did Georgia prove that?

Really? They have the east locked down, been to the playoffs and been slugging it out with bama. We can't even get to a toilet bowl and struggle with Charlotte. They didn't win the Natty, but they probably should have. And was the SEC champs in 17

 

[sjt18]

To your larger point, it is simply wrong. Just look at the blue chip ratio. ALL 4 playoff teams were 50%+ blue chip recruits this season. Bama has dominated CFB while recruiting #1 and a couple #2 classes.

This point isn't even debatable. It is beyond settled. If you are behind on this, catch up.

The point I wish he would make is that there are enough really talented players who do not get 4/5* to make a championship team IF you find that unique coach capable of recognizing them. Unfortunately, I think he's getting tangled up in trying to make the exceptions the rule.

Most of those great lower rated guys aren't necessarily recognized even by the coaches who sign them. They just grow or develop better than their peers. There definitely are enough of those guys out there to win... but it would be impressive if a coach found a way to get 50 of them on the same roster.... which I think is about the number of 4/5* players on Bama's roster.

 

[DougVol]

The thread was posted a few days ago suggesting we don't have a chance without 5* recruits. So I took to google to find out how right he could be and decided, instead of debating a percentage of what I learned based on a comment here and there, why not put it all on here? So here we go.

Let's see how we would feel about this hypothetical roster at UT back in the day.

Qb1 Arron Rodgers
Qb2 Matt Ryan
Rb1 Levion Bell
Wr. Mike Evans
OL Travis Frederick
OL. Trent Williams
TE. Travis Kelsey

C. Richard Sherman
DL Von Miller
DL Arron Donald
DL Cliff Avril
All 3* recruits and that's just the probowl.

According to 247 we shouldnt be talking about 2* talent such as Aquib Talib or Kalil Mack because they are less likely to go pro.

Even less talk is deserved for the bottom feeders (unranked) such as Tony Romo and Tom Brady.

Ive never been a believer in the recruiting services for reasons unimportant (although one reason should already be clear). But if you choose to believe a panel full of guys that went to school to learn how to do this from a book, be my guest. I'll trust my own eyes and experience along with the coaching staff that trust the same things over what some pencil pusher says they are.

Again?