President Trump Gives Stirring Speech To Honor U.S. Veterans On 75th Anniversary Of D-Day

#76
#76
Grand Vol said:
Strawman argument. You're better than that
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I am not trying to give a straw man (an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument).

I am attempting to compare and contrast the two.
 
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#77
#77
hog88 said:
I'd be good with that, politicians start the wars so.

Do you know what unit? I lost 2 great uncles, 1 on D-Day and the other a week or so later.
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I don't. I only heard about it from my dad. Pawpaw never said anything to family about the war.
 
#78
#78
McDad said:
I feel like all the politicos should stay away from it. Let it be a veterans (from both sides) with translators only invite.

I watched Saving Private Ryan again last night. It's as close as I ever hope to be in a battle. War is Hell for all who fought.

Full disclosure: my grandad was on that beach on D day.
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I had an older first cousin who was on the beach on D-Day, and later in the Ardennes Forest. You couldn't get much out of him about it.
 
#79
#79
Stew Cook said:
Seems to me that the D-day battle was pivotal in what Germany has become, so showing up to represent the peace that was achieved is appropriate. Countless lives lost for nothing, but the resulting peace.

Sort of like if they had an American Cival War memorial event and people from the Confederate States showed up.
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I agree. Confederate sons and daughters showing up to Gettysburg memorial celebrations is not disrespecful.
 
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#80
#80
hog88 said:
Different all the way around.
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It was different in that last year was commemorating an entire war and this was commemorating one battle.

But the question remains: What is the purpose when people gather on the ___ anniversary of X battle?

Is it for the winning side to remind everyone that it won?

Is it to honor the memory of the people who fought and died in the battle?

Or other?
 
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#81
#81
1972 Grad said:
Just depends. Did she work on the Manhattan Project?
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She did not.

How about this as another way to look at it...there was a memorial celebration at pearl harbor a few years ago where Japanese veterans were invited and attended. Was that bad?
 
#82
#82
McDad said:
I agree. Confederate sons and daughters showing up to Gettysburg memorial celebrations is not disrespecful.
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Not just the sons and daughters. By the logic above this should never have happened.

RwXMxQI.jpg
 
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#84
#84
McDad said:
I feel like all the politicos should stay away from it. Let it be a veterans (from both sides) with translators only invite.

I watched Saving Private Ryan again last night. It's as close as I ever hope to be in a battle. War is Hell for all who fought.

Full disclosure: my grandad was on that beach on D day.
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My Dad was in I Company 12th INF 4th ID. Went ashore in second wave on Utah beach. It took him a long time to watch Saving Private Ryan but he finally did watch it. When I asked him about it, it was a short discussion. He really didn’t want to talk about it. I went with him once to a 4th yearly reunion. That was 20 years ago I believe. Not much dwelling on death or war, more the commaraderie and happy times they had. My dad really didn’t talk about combat much. Some but not much. And it was normally something I had to initiate.
 
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#86
#86
McDad said:
I am not trying to give a straw man (an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument).

I am attempting to compare and contrast the two.
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If Germany "deserves" a place at that head table, so does Russia. Were they invited? They could make the claim "without us keeping the Germans occupied on the Eastern Front, your invasion might have failed."

The Poles, which had a significant presence in the Normandy invasion, deserved to have a spot up there.

As did the Norwegians.

I have no problem with Merkel attending if that was her desire. I do have a problem with her being front and center on the stage. That was a celebration of the Allied Forces in Normandy, not the German ones.
 
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#87
#87
Velo Vol said:
It was different in that last year was commemorating an entire war and this was commemorating one battle.

But the question remains: What is the purpose when people gather on the ___ anniversary of X battle?

Is it for the winning side to remind everyone that it won?

Is it to honor the memory of the people who fought and died in the battle?

Or other?
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To honor the men that sacrificed it all. It should never be about anything else.

If the Germans want to have a remembrance for the men they lost fine, do it elsewhere.
 
#88
#88
Franklin Pierce said:
The boy wearing his great uncle’s medals, the proudest salute: ROBERT HARDMAN on the poignant 75th anniversary of D-Day

Nearly a century apart in age yet bound by their determination to remember; if this week’s powerful and moving commemorations of the 75th anniversary of D-Day have had one over-arching theme, then it is embodied in the clutched hands of George Sayer, aged six, and D-Day veteran, John Quinn, aged 92.

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Tribute: George Sayer, six, with his great uncle’s beret and medals at the Commonwealth War Graves yesterday. Young George had come with his family to remember his great-uncle, also George Sayer, who had been in one of the first landing craft to reach Sword Beach that morning
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Stolen Valor :confused:
 
#89
#89
McDad said:
She did not.

How about this as another way to look at it...there was a memorial celebration at pearl harbor a few years ago where Japanese veterans were invited and attended. Was that bad?
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No and I wouldn't have a problem with German veterans of D-Day attending the remembrance.
 
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#90
#90
Grand Vol said:
If Germany "deserves" a place at that head table, so does Russia. Were they invited? They could make the claim "without us keeping the Germans occupied on the Eastern Front, your invasion might have failed."

The Poles, which had a significant presence in the Normandy invasion, deserved to have a spot up there.

As did the Norwegians.

I have no problem with Merkel attending if that was her desire. I do have a problem with her being front and center on the stage. That was a celebration of the Allied Forces in Normandy, not the German ones.
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I don't know why some are invited and others not. My suspicion is it isn't politically expedient. If we were a huge trading partner with Poland, I bet their representative would have a presence.

I understand your point about it being a celebration of the Allied Forces. It is a fair one, imo.
 
#93
#93
McDad said:
I don't know why some are invited and others not. My suspicion is it isn't politically expedient. If we were a huge trading partner with Poland, I bet their representative would have a presence.

I understand your point about it being a celebration of the Allied Forces. It is a fair one, imo.
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I knew you were reasonable.
 
#94
#94
Grand Vol said:
I knew you were reasonable.
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I am. And as a reasonable person...probably THE most reasonable person on VN in the history of VN...I still see no issue with Merkel attending, being front and center, etc. The Allied forces can be celebrated and memorialized with equal honor whether Merkel is there or not.
 
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#95
#95
midnight orange said:
Good article on the incompetence of the Allied leadership and of the the extraordinary bravery of the soldiers during d-day.

The big D-Day screw-ups that have been covered up for 75-years

The biggest crime imo is that FDR and Churchill let Stalin badger and pressure them into attacking in less than favorable conditions and their compliance with his requests at great cost to us. I would have reminded him of his participation in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and that he could thank us for the supplies and would then ask him if would like to continue receiving said supplies.
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Or that Eisenhower and company fell for the idea of a Alpine Fortress.
 
#96
#96
Grand Vol said:
I will say this, Merkel had no business being there.
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Merkel leads a Germany that is our ally now. Different regime, different government. Her presence says to me that Germany is sorry for what it did. Are you mad that she wants to honor the fallen soldiers at Normandy?
 
#97
#97
Purple Tiger said:
Merkel leads a Germany that is our ally now. Different regime, different government. Her presence says to me that Germany is sorry for what it did. Are you mad that she wants to honor the fallen soldiers at Normandy?
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Yeah, I'm sure that is why she was there.
 
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