Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

[Devo182]

Good holy shitwow buying a car is the wooooorst.

It's an uncomplicated deal, I had preapproved financing, knew the car, but this dealership is bordering on absolute incompetence. I've been waiting 84 years (over the course of four different trips). I'm tired of being here. Take my money, give me the car.

I've had the unfortunate job of being on the bank (credit union actually) financing side of this and we had to talk directly to dealers regularly. A clueless and aggravating bunch they are.

The most stunning common occurrence was how lackadaisical they were about whether or not the purchaser had proof of insurance at the time of purchase. It instantly became our collateral, so we absolutely had to get proof before sending a letter of commitment. The crazy part was that dealers really didn't care if the person had insurance or not...when we told them it was state law in NC for the dealer to require proof (on their end, for their own liability) about 50% of them had no idea...and about just as many still didn't care.

Now, there were some good guys. Guys we worked with regularly that could bang out all the paperwork in no time with us. But more often than not they were a headache to work with. And it was our duty to our members to point out when they were getting screwed on things like $1,500 "dealer warranties" on a 10 year old $7,000 vehicle. So the ones that were the worst, the shady dealerships, also hated us the most for cutting down their commissions. They loved it when someone would use their in-house financing and tack on warranties and other garbage. It was a 2 way street with the crappy dealers.

Luckily working at a credit union meant we were doing good work and actually helping people. That was the best part of the job.

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Draymond Green is the most underrated player in the NBA. He’s the difference in the game tonight.

 

[Devo182]

You sound surprised? That's not exactly breaking news... Lol

See that's why I just can't on board with these pumped up predictions. Yes, "2nd year jump" is a thing. Yes we return a lot at skill positions.

But go no further than our own cliches we, as SEC fans, love to spout off: this is a big boy league...a line of scrimmage league. Welp, that is where we are the weakest.

Jmo, but we should all hold on for dear life as the lemmings go jumping off cliffs this season. How quickly we have forgotten where games are won and lost in our very own league. I doubt most of those "2nd year leap" coaches had to deal with 2 years of basically no S&C program before they arrived, undersized players for the league they were in, then immediately losing your entire DL AND your best OL by far...all meanwhile the fans are expecting this meteoric jump from y1 to y2. Just ain't happening imo and that's fine.

 

[Devo182]

Draymond Green is the most underrated player in the NBA. He’s the difference in the game tonight.

Sorry but isn't he the one that beat bruce's E8 team at the buzzer? I could be way off, but some Mich St guy ruined it for us.

 

[Devo182]

Sorry but isn't he the one that beat bruce's E8 team at the buzzer? I could be way off, but some Mich St guy ruined it for us.

Correction - Draymond made the pass...then we fouled the guy that made 1 out of 2 from the line to win it.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

In comment #147,711 I posted the PFF season grades for our 2017 offensive players. Here are the PFF season grades for our 2017 defensive players, also courtesy of Patrick Brown at 247. The red text is my edit.

Here's the 0-100 grading scale PFF uses and what the numbers means:

> 85 or higher: Considered NFL-ready
> 80-84: Very good
> 50-60: Average
> Below 50: Bad

DEFENSIVE TACKLE

3. Kahlil McKenzie: 78.7 (439 plays) Above Average
10. Alexis Johnson: 69.6 (189 plays) Above Average
17. Shy Tuttle: 50.6 (267 plays) Average
18. Quay Picou: 48.8 (107 plays) Bad
21. Kendal Vickers: 48.1 (632 plays) Bad
25. Kivon Bennett: 47.2 (14 plays) Bad

DEFENSIVE END

6. Darrell Taylor: 76.1 (483 plays) Above Average
8. Jonathan Kongbo: 72.2 (598 plays) Above Average
11. Kyle Phillips: 69.1 (532 plays) Above Average
14. Deandre Johnson: 52.1 (56 plays) Average
19. Matthew Butler: 48.2 (87 plays) Bad

LINEBACKER

4. Daniel Bituli: 78.5 (500 plays) Above Average
7. Quart'e Sapp: 74.7 (447 plays) Above Average
13. Will Ignont: 58.9 (27 plays) Average
16. Cortez McDowell: 50.8 (163 plays) Average
22. Elliott Berry: 48.0 (250 plays) Bad
28. Colton Jumper: 42.9 (568 plays) Bad

CORNERBACK

1. Rashaan Gaulden: 84.1 (696 plays) Very Good
9. Emmanuel Moseley: 71.4 (634 plays) Above Average
15. Baylen Buchanan: 51.4 (50 plays) Average
23. Marquill Osborne: 47.9 (36 plays) Bad
24. Justin Martin: 47.5 (544 plays) Bad
26. Shawn Shamburger: 44.9 (118 plays) Bad
27. Shaq Wiggins: 43.3 (294 plays) Bad

SAFETY

2. Nigel Warrior: 81.0 (822 plays) Very Good
5. Todd Kelly Jr.: 76.2 (59 plays) Above Average
12. Theo Jackson: 69.0 (47 plays) Above Average
20. Micah Abernathy: 48.1 (760 plays) Bad

Pro Football Focus season grades for Tennessee's defense


The reason I was posting this analysis from PFF was to provide some reference given the NFL-ready grade PFF gave Jarrett Guarantano for his 2018 season performance. I also found this graphic from PFF through week 11 last year where they published grades for the season at that point for True Freshmen.

Bryce Thompson, Tennessee – 81.8

Thompson leads all true freshmen cornerbacks in overall grade, pass-rush grade and coverage grade this season as he’s been incredibly efficient across the board. He has been sticky in coverage mainly, despite allowing four touchdowns, he has intercepted three passes and broken up another six to give him nine total plays on the ball on 44 targeted passes as the primary coverage defender. A sneaky good blitzer, Thompson has rushed the passer just eight times in 2018, yet brought home six total pressures (1 sack, 5 hurries).

The nation's top-graded true freshman at every defensive position, through Week 11 | NFL Draft news and analysis | Pro Football Focus

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

See that's why I just can't on board with these pumped up predictions. Yes, "2nd year jump" is a thing. Yes we return a lot at skill positions.

But go no further than our own cliches we, as SEC fans, love to spout off: this is a big boy league...a line of scrimmage league. Welp, that is where we are the weakest.

Jmo, but we should all hold on for dear life as the lemmings go jumping off cliffs this season. How quickly we have forgotten where games are won and lost in our very own league. I doubt most of those "2nd year leap" coaches had to deal with 2 years of basically no S&C program before they arrived, undersized players for the league they were in, then immediately losing your entire DL AND your best OL by far...all meanwhile the fans are expecting this meteoric jump from y1 to y2. Just ain't happening imo and that's fine.

Year 3 needs to be make or break, same as Dooley.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

See that's why I just can't on board with these pumped up predictions. Yes, "2nd year jump" is a thing. Yes we return a lot at skill positions.

But go no further than our own cliches we, as SEC fans, love to spout off: this is a big boy league...a line of scrimmage league. Welp, that is where we are the weakest.

Jmo, but we should all hold on for dear life as the lemmings go jumping off cliffs this season. How quickly we have forgotten where games are won and lost in our very own league. I doubt most of those "2nd year leap" coaches had to deal with 2 years of basically no S&C program before they arrived, undersized players for the league they were in, then immediately losing your entire DL AND your best OL by far...all meanwhile the fans are expecting this meteoric jump from y1 to y2. Just ain't happening imo and that's fine.

Year 3 needs to be make or break, same as Dooley.

Doesn't mean you don't make a move after year 2 if the results are terrible and you have the opportunity to upgrade.

 

[tennvols77]

In comment #147,711 I posted the PFF season grades for our 2017 offensive players. Here are the PFF season grades for our 2017 defensive players, also courtesy of Patrick Brown at 247. The red text is my edit.

Pro Football Focus season grades for Tennessee's defense

The nation's top-graded true freshman at every defensive position, through Week 11 | NFL Draft news and analysis | Pro Football Focus

Seeing what Pruitt did with moving Taylor, and snagging Thompson, and plugging both in and seeing instant results is what gives hope.

These two if they stay healthy and eligible, and both continue to work hard and keep improving, will be day one draft picks, if not both first rounders. They are the building blocks of this D. Add in a few from this years recruiting class, and Bailey and a few more for this year, come junior year for both corners and we are not far away.

 

[vol2002]

Year 3 needs to be make or break, same as Dooley.

Doesn't mean you don't make a move after year 2 if the results are terrible and you have the opportunity to upgrade.

We won’t have the opportunity to upgrade after either year 2 or year 3. We will be fishing in a pond of unproven coordinators in this scenario.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

One of the writers at Saturday Blitz did a game by game prediction for Alabama this season and thinks they'll go undefeated in the regular season. Here is his take on the TSIO:

The Third Saturday in October used to be one of college football’s fiercest rivalries, but Nick Saban has rendered it a footnote. Saban is 12-0 against the Volunteers, and only two of the 12 meetings have been decided by less than two touchdowns.

This is likely to be met with mockery, but I expect Tennessee to be among the most improved teams in the country next season. Jeremy Pruitt’s first team in Knoxville finished 5-7, and many got jokes off about the Vols being shut out of the 2019 NFL Draft. Lost in that, however, is that Tennessee just didn’t have that many players who were draft eligible.

No team in the power-five returns more production from last season than Tennessee, and their returning talent ranks 2nd in the entire country to Western Michigan. Tennessee’s offense has a chance to be really good under new offensive coordinator Jim Chaney. He has a lot of talent to work with, led by rising junior quarterback Jarrett Guarantano, running back Ty Chandler, and a trio of quality receivers in Marquez Callaway, Josh Palmer, and Jauan Jennings. The Vols should also be improved on the offensive line, particularly if Trey Smith is able to play next season.

If Pruitt can get the defense to take a step forward after finishing 49th in the nation last year, then Tennessee could be a sneaky sleeper pick in the SEC East. It isn’t likely to overtake Georgia, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see them fight for second place with Florida.

Even still, improved or not, it’s unlikely that Tennessee’s 12-game losing streak to Alabama ends in 2019 with the game at Bryant-Denny Stadium. Pruitt will probably have to wait at least one more season before potentially taking out his alma mater and former boss.

Alabama Football: Post-Spring game-by-game predictions for 2019

 

[vol2002]

One of the writers at Saturday Blitz did a game by game prediction for Alabama this season and thinks they'll go undefeated in the regular season. Here is his take on the TSIO:



Alabama Football: Post-Spring game-by-game predictions for 2019

Ssssshhhh! Don’t let the secret out of the bag!

 

[chargervol]

See that's why I just can't on board with these pumped up predictions. Yes, "2nd year jump" is a thing. Yes we return a lot at skill positions.

But go no further than our own cliches we, as SEC fans, love to spout off: this is a big boy league...a line of scrimmage league. Welp, that is where we are the weakest.

Jmo, but we should all hold on for dear life as the lemmings go jumping off cliffs this season. How quickly we have forgotten where games are won and lost in our very own league. I doubt most of those "2nd year leap" coaches had to deal with 2 years of basically no S&C program before they arrived, undersized players for the league they were in, then immediately losing your entire DL AND your best OL by far...all meanwhile the fans are expecting this meteoric jump from y1 to y2. Just ain't happening imo and that's fine.

Usually 3 kinds of outlooks.
1. Didn't like the hire, gonna find something wrong.
2. Need a number for wins. "You are what your record says you are".
3. Decide if you're watching good/improved football or not. Not focused solely on win total. Good outlook but also easy to fall into "moral victories".

I mix 2&3. Looking for better football but given our schedule, that should bump the win total, at least some.

 

[CAVPUT]

Usually 3 kinds of outlooks.
1. Didn't like the hire, gonna find something wrong.
2. Need a number for wins. "You are what your record says you are".
3. Decide if you're watching good/improved football or not. Not focused solely on win total. Good outlook but also easy to fall into "moral victories".

I mix 2&3. Looking for better football but given our schedule, that should bump the win total, at least some.

Personally, I think a coach needs to graduate his first full recruiting class before you really know what you have.....and that isn't the class he patched together shortly after he was hired. Let him get his staff and a complete roster filled with his players. Then you have a body of work and a more complete picture.

 

[chargervol]

This time last year, Wanya Morris was “he gone” to Auburn. Crouch and Toto were pipe dreams...many said Wright would end up at Bama. We were the same.

Yep, I don't get worried, till much later.
But seriously, I do get curious at to what causes patterns. Obviously, our competition also has good signing days and they don't have to wait until late in the cycle to get commitments.
My simple theory is that it just takes a lot more to sell with our record. If true, we're damn lucky to have an elite recruiting staff that can, even if it takes awhile.

Which is why I still believe a couple of the proven coaches wouldn't have done so well here. :cough cough, starts trouble:

 

[chargervol]

Personally, I think a coach needs to graduate his first full recruiting class before you really know what you have.....and that isn't the class he patched together shortly after he was hired. Let him get his staff and a complete roster filled with his players. Then you have a body of work and a more complete picture.

There is definitely precedent for both. The immediate - Saban, Meyer etc..
The false start - McElwain and so on.

 

[Ron Swanson]

 

[MoCo_Vol]

5 outta 6 UT players now with shots at NFL teams...

TenNeSSe diDN't HaVe aNY nFl taLEnt

Honestly I think Kongbo's interview actually hurt him in getting a shot. He had proven enough on the field to just throw previous coaches fully under the bus and it came off a bit like a blame game. Plus him coming off that ACL injury and such. He might get a shot somewhere though at some point, freak athlete and the right size.

 

[chargervol]

5 outta 6 UT players now with shots at NFL teams...

TenNeSSe diDN't HaVe aNY nFl taLEnt

Which group are you referring to?
A. "CBJ didn't recruit any real talent"

B. "The lack of wins last year was a result of the lack of talent" ?

Sorry, just not sure.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Which group are you referring to?
A. "CBJ didn't recruit any real talent"

B. "The lack of wins last year was a result of the lack of talent" ?

Sorry, just not sure.

Neither. Most of the draft coverage ESPN & NFL Network both kept poking the Vols for not having any selections, Charles Davis on the NFL network was constantly reminded that 0 players were invited to the combined and 0 ended up being drafted.

 

[jakez4ut]

See that's why I just can't on board with these pumped up predictions. Yes, "2nd year jump" is a thing. Yes we return a lot at skill positions.

But go no further than our own cliches we, as SEC fans, love to spout off: this is a big boy league...a line of scrimmage league. Welp, that is where we are the weakest.

Jmo, but we should all hold on for dear life as the lemmings go jumping off cliffs this season. How quickly we have forgotten where games are won and lost in our very own league. I doubt most of those "2nd year leap" coaches had to deal with 2 years of basically no S&C program before they arrived, undersized players for the league they were in, then immediately losing your entire DL AND your best OL by far...all meanwhile the fans are expecting this meteoric jump from y1 to y2. Just ain't happening imo and that's fine.

well, that's the thing isn't it? the 2nd year jump is a real thing. and it's still possible both can be true. yeah, we're no where near where we need to be in the trenches. that's not new. and still our biggest weakness.

but the only additions to the O line are two 5*'s and the rest are all coming in after a 2nd year in the s&c and with an upgraded OC. and the OL was so bad, even being average could be worth a game or two.

the DL...we'll see.

the other reason, aside from year 2 bump, is the schedule. it's lightens up a bit this year....

and i don't know how meteoric going from 5-7 is...but it's reasonable to think we could win 7 games this year.

 

[chargervol]

Neither. Most of the draft coverage ESPN & NFL Network both kept poking the Vols for not having any selections, Charles Davis on the NFL network was constantly reminded that 0 players were invited to the combined and 0 ended up being drafted.

Oh, absolutely. Glad I asked
TN as a university, not being capable of drawing and producing talent, has been the least of our struggles.
Hope they all regret poking the bear.. and soon.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Pretty interesting stuff in here. Pruitt basically admits he lost the team to end the year.

Mr. CFB Spring Tour: No mystery at Tennessee. The Vols need more players. Now. - TMG Maven

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

Even though we return a lot of players we still don’t have the talent to win more than 7 games.

 

[jakez4ut]

Pretty interesting stuff in here. Pruitt basically admits he lost the team to end the year.

Mr. CFB Spring Tour: No mystery at Tennessee. The Vols need more players. Now. - TMG Maven

well, i think obviously that's bad. and it can't continue. the good news, he's aware of it and took steps to fix it.

as for the talent issue.....i hate that it keeps coming up, but this narrative that talent was "fine" the last couple years was a total farce. and it keeps getting proven over and over again. siap a long time ago about those two top 10 classes butch brought in, but well over 1/2 of those players never finished their career here, and it wasn't because they all left early for the NFL. those two classes, except for a select few, were total shams.