He is not worth 5 million a year

#151
#151
zjcvols said:
Just making the point that the guy who routinely gets picked apart by Vol fans has around the same tourney success as Barnes.

And that what Barnes is doing isn’t some sort of miracle some portray it to be. He’s done a good job.
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I’m sorry, must have forgotten where Cuonzo made multiple tourneys
 
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#152
#152
jasonvols2.2 said:
Not in basketball, Not when you are a sweet 16 coach. And not when you have 1 conference tourney in 30th years of coaching.

Cal is not worth 9 million, I will add.
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Were you okay with him leaving for UCLA? He may have been bluffing, in an effort to get a raise for himself & his staff. Would you take a chance on that he wasn’t going to leave?

Had he left this is what LIKELY would have occurred. * Grant & Bone leave. * Current 5* recruit and possibly others go elsewhere. * We have to hire a safe but cheap coach who was a lifetime assistant or was head coach of Oklahoma Morth East Central Community College

Best avenue of approach was to just pay him & not have deeper issues
 
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#154
#154
Steven5198 said:
Do come in here with facts like that about Cuonzo's tenure at Tennessee. Most Tennessee fans can't handle things that happen to go against their rhetoric of not liking Martin.
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Missouri had a heck of a team this year. Please tell me, did they make the NCAAs.
 
#156
#156
treali94 said:
This is such a cringe tier response. Tautology isn’t an argument. And for the record worth and market clearing price aren’t actually the same thing.
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Cringe tier, tautology...whatever. Fulmer thought paying Barnes and having continuity of upwards trajectory in the program, vs risk of having another coach search, which may not have yielded the same level of coaching was worth the price tag...and I agree.
 
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#159
#159
Rudy123 said:
Were you okay with him leaving for UCLA? He may have been bluffing, in an effort to get a raise for himself & his staff. Would you take a chance on that he wasn’t going to leave?

Had he left this is what LIKELY would have occurred. * Grant & Bone leave. * Current 5* recruit and possibly others go elsewhere. * We have to hire a safe but cheap coach who was a lifetime assistant or was head coach of Oklahoma Morth East Central Community College

Best avenue of approach was to just pay him & not have deeper issues
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Agree. Though no one likes to "over-pay" their intended budget, but it's the reality we were kinda forced into. That being said, there are some positives of keeping Barnes at this price tag, which I think benefits UT basketball in the long term. #1, this squarely takes men's bball off the table of "things to worry about", from an AD stand point (other than the salary) and gives us our best opportunity to become an annual top tier program, and #2, and maybe most importantly, is that Barnes and UT will have elevated attention, and expectations w/ being paid top 5 in the country...which helps w/ recruits and national attention...and, I'd contend that when Barnes retires, the level of coaches who will be in our pool will be more in the top tier, rather than the next round of mid-major coaches...we'll get some serious looks from top tier folks.
 
#160
#160
njvols said:
Agree. Though no one likes to "over-pay" their intended budget, but it's the reality we were kinda forced into. That being said, there are some positives of keeping Barnes at this price tag, which I think benefits UT basketball in the long term. #1, this squarely takes men's bball off the table of "things to worry about", from an AD stand point (other than the salary) and gives us our best opportunity to become an annual top tier program, and #2, and maybe most importantly, is that Barnes and UT will have elevated attention, and expectations w/ being paid top 5 in the country...which helps w/ recruits and national attention...and, I'd contend that when Barnes retires, the level of coaches who will be in our pool will be more in the top tier, rather than the next round of mid-major coaches...we'll get some serious looks from top tier folks.
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We didn't overpay.
 
#161
#161
JMSqb11 said:
I’m sorry, must have forgotten where Cuonzo made multiple tourneys
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He made the postseason before Barnes. Same expectations. Went further in the third year. They both made it year three. Barnes went in year four. Martin didn't have a year four.

Same amount in the same time as Barnes but went further.

So . . .
 
#163
#163
k-town_king said:
He is doing better than the last guy there. He also had a ton of injuries and a starter kicked off the team.

Why did he do better than Barnes the first two years and get further in the tourney in year three at UT if he is so terrible?
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Fill in the blank.

If Cuonzo wasn’t _________ K-town wouldn’t care or even know who he is.
 
#164
#164
k-town_king said:
He made the postseason before Barnes. Same expectations. Went further in the third year. They both made it year three. Barnes went in year four. Martin didn't have a year four.

Same amount in the same time as Barnes but went further.

So . . .
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He also got bounced in the in the NIT two years prior to that tourney run.

He also had a significantly better roster to build with compared to Barnes and Cuonzo still flopped.

Comparing making a Sweet 16 in Year 3 for one coach vs Year 4 for another coach isn't some strong argument when comparing.

Stevie Wonder can see that Cuonzo is a dud and literally got lucky in March after sweating it out as a bubble team for his entire 3 years here even with a stacked roster going into his 3rd year.

If your argument in Barnes vs Cuonzo is that it took Barnes a year longer to make a Sweet 16 and that's somehow a knock on Barnes, you've lost your mind.

But yes, let's defend a horrible coach that had one good 3 game stretch in 3 over 100 games coached.....
 
#165
#165
jasonvols2.2 said:
Not in basketball, Not when you are a sweet 16 coach. And not when you have 1 conference tourney in 30th years of coaching.

Cal is not worth 9 million, I will add.
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Worth 5 Millon? Perhaps he is! However, I lost a lot of respect for Barnes as a UT coach. Maybe there are a lot of other issues going on at UT? When I think of Roy Williams at UNC, he would NEVER play another team against UNC to up his salary. Yes, he did leave Kansas for his dream job of UNC. For sure, UT is not Barnes dream job. For some reason I thought Barnes had a connection with UT. I was wrong, it's all about the money!!!!!
 
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#166
#166
volmanNC said:
Worth 5 Millon? Perhaps he is! However, I lost a lot of respect for Barnes as a UT coach. Maybe there are a lot of other issues going on at UT? When I think of Roy Williams at UNC, he would NEVER play another team against UNC to up his salary. Yes, he did leave Kansas for his dream job of UNC. For sure, UT is not Barnes dream job. For some reason I thought Barnes had a connection with UT. I was wrong, it all about the money!!!!!
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At UNC, Roy Williams has adequate funding and support for his assistants and program..... UNC is also a basketball school.
 
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#169
#169
k-town_king said:
The ones saying he was terrible here when he did better than Barnes the first three years should fill that in. And many of them loved Tyndall too. 🤔
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Except he didn't do better as a whole. Saying that a 3 game run somehow justifies or makes the other 101 games he coached looked better is pure garbage......

So just for the record, you are saying that Cuonzo as Tennessee's coach is better than Barnes as Tennessee's coach, right?
 
#171
#171
Steven5198 said:
Do come in here with facts like that about Cuonzo's tenure at Tennessee. Most Tennessee fans can't handle things that happen to go against their rhetoric of not liking Martin.
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I really like the success Martin had at Cal and Missouri. Epic NCAA runs.
 
#172
#172
JMSqb11 said:
Except he didn't do better as a whole. Saying that a 3 game run somehow justifies or makes the other 101 games he coached looked better is pure garbage......

So just for the record, you are saying that Cuonzo as Tennessee's coach is better than Barnes as Tennessee's coach, right?
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Just like Jones is a better coach than Pruitt because Jones had a better year.
 
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#173
#173
volmanNC said:
As I said, it's all about the money!!!!!!!!!!! I guess you are agreeing with my point..
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Actually its not about the money.

UCLA is a basketball school for the most part. They have unlimited cash and could throw a Brinks truck at someone if they really wanted too.

Tennessee currently has two coaches out on buyouts. We are seeing some good returns on the basketball program financially. Barnes is going to retire in 5-6 years.

So the decision has to be weighed by Fulmer and the University if paying more to keep things stable and getting good returns is worth it vs had they let Barnes walk and Fulmer having to do a basketball search that could get as close to the performance the basketball program is currently getting under Barnes.

Outside of a Bruce Pearl hire (very small chance), there would be all but guaranteed we go after a mid major / up and comer type like Tyndall or Cuonzo that we can pay cheap. Two things happen there, recruiting will take a hit because these up and comer's are NOT household names and they have to adjust having all these resources at their hands. Secondly, there will always be some apathy towards an up and comer here that isn't some March Madness cinderella coach and will feel like a letdown hire. Add in the fact of a Cuonzo/Tyndall type season (.500 record season give or take a few games on either side) and fans will be ruthless. We saw this with Cuonzo being a dud and the Bruce petition. Of course that led down the route of people bringing racism into it.

So most likely we look at the following:
Recruiting takes a hit
Ticket sales drop
Grant/Bone definitely leave with no chance of returning
Possibly a transfer

Basically all the returns we have gotten from Barnes are erased.....

Given the fact this is likely his last contract, paying him 4.7-6 million per year over the course of this contract is a steal to keep things flowing financially.

Knowing we won't have to fire him because he will be retiring on this contract is a major win for us as we would never have to worry about dealing with a 4 coaching buyout this decade.....

There will not be a lot a pressure on UT to throw an extension on this new deal as Barnes' longevity for coaching is basically non existent (4-6 years)....
 
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#174
#174
JMSqb11 said:
Actually its not about the money.

UCLA is a basketball school for the most part. They have unlimited cash and could throw a Brinks truck at someone if they really wanted too.

Tennessee currently has two coaches out on buyouts. We are seeing some good returns on the basketball program financially. Barnes is going to retire in 5-6 years.

So the decision has to be weighed by Fulmer and the University if paying more to keep things stable and getting good returns is worth it vs had they let Barnes walk and Fulmer having to do a basketball search that could get as close to the performance the basketball program is currently getting under Barnes.

Outside of a Bruce Pearl hire (very small chance), there would be all but guaranteed we go after a mid major / up and comer type like Tyndall or Cuonzo that we can pay cheap. Two things happen there, recruiting will take a hit because these up and comer's are household names and they have to adjust having all these resources at their hands. Secondly, there will always be some apathy towards an up and comer here that isn't some March Madness cinderella coach.

So most likely we look at the following:
Recruiting takes a hit
Ticket sales drop
Grant/Bone definitely leave with no chance of returning
Possibly a transfer

Basically all the returns we have gotten from Barnes are erased.....

Given the fact this is likely his last contract, paying him 4.7-6 million per year over the course of this contract is a steal to keep things flowing financially.

Knowing we won't have to fire him because he will be retiring on this contract is a major win for us as we would never have to worry about dealing with a 4 coaching buyout this decade.....

There will not be a lot a pressure on UT to throw an extension on this new deal as Barnes' longevity for coaching is basically non existent (4-6 years)....
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UCLA couldn't afford to pay Rick Barnes 5 million dollar buyout because they were paying the buyouts of Jim Mora Jr and Steve Alford. The UCLA fans on Bruin Zone really went after their AD Dan Guerrero for talking to Rick Barnes when he knew they couldn't afford his buyout. UCLA has pretty shallow pockets.
 
#175
#175
Tennesseefan2019 said:
UCLA couldn't afford to pay Rick Barnes 5 million dollar buyout because they were paying the buyouts of Jim Mora Jr and Steve Alford. The UCLA fans on Bruin Zone really went after their AD Dan Guerrero for talking to Rick Barnes when he knew they couldn't afford his buyout. UCLA has pretty shallow pockets.
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Once again, UCLA could have easily paid Barnes buyout on top of Dixon's buyout. They just have a big number sitting on their balance sheet for Mora and Alford.

UCLA has tons of cash. They just don't want to give it all away or make an actual commitment.

The one thing about UCLA that works against it is that Dan Guerrero has less than 100 days left on his contract and is a lameduck AD at the moment. He will not be retained.
 
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