He is not worth 5 million a year

CAVPUT

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I'd say he's more worthy of $5mil than the LV's new coach getting $750k for what she has on her resume. Not sure if that includes her husband or the $250K number I've seen going around is a separate salary. If not, that's a cool million for LV basketball. :oops:
 

treali94

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Why are we comparing Bill Self & Rick Barnes? Self is 680-211 in 26 years with a 76.3% win percentage, he's gone to 3 Final Fours and has 1 NCAA championship. The bulk of his success has been at Kansas a well established "blue blood" of college basketball.

He took over for Roy Williams, who was 418-101 at Kansas with a 80.5% win percentage and had gone to 4 Final Fours with them. Before Williams it was Larry Brown who in his brief time with Kansas was 135-44 with a 75.4% win percentage, went to 2 Final Fours and won a championship while there (just 5 years total).

Barnes isn't as successful as Bill Self, but he's also never coached at a blue blood school either. Texas has only been ranked 16 times in the preseason polls (11 under Barnes) and only finished in the AP top 25 in polls 11 times (8 under Barnes).

Barnes is more successful than Steve Alford, who despite being at a blue blood has never made an Elite Eight appearance. Barnes has however taken 3 different schools to a Sweet Sixteen and has a total of 3 Elite Eight or better appearances.


There are quite a few college basketball coaches that are more successful than Rick Barnes, but my thing is who of them has done it at the same level without the benefit of being at a blue blood school? And of those that have how many realistically could you hire to UT? I don't think Barnes has really earned the 4.5+ million he just got, but I also don't think we could maintain the same level of success with the program without paying someone that much, and none of the "better" coaches were going to come here to replace Barnes.

Pearl would be a potential, but he'd also immediately bring down NCAA attention again because of the pending FBI investigation into HIS program at Auburn.
Bruce Pearl achieved more with tenneseee than Barnes has. This is a fact. That in and of itself kind of destroys the entire premise of this argument clearly you can succeed at Tennessee. Buzz Williams has had a far more successful decade than Barnes has had. In fact let’s go conference by conference. In the Big 12 every coach but Shaka Smart and Boynton has outperformed Rick for the past four years. It’s not even close for most- only with Dixon can you make an argument that maybe Barnes performed on par with him. So that’s a pretty embarrassing result for the 5 million dollar man maybe the ACC will yeild better result for the old underachiever. Here Barnes does a little bit better he’s had a better four years than Danny Manning Josh Pastner Jim Christian and possibly Brownell- id say no because the ACC is such a hard conference but it’s a toss up. Keatts and Cappell are incomplete although Keatts first two years have been light years better than Barnes. So not much to justify five million yet let’s head over to the Big 10. Here finally Barnes hasn’t achieved less than a majority of the coaches. Pitino McCaffery Chambers Collins Miles Piekiel all achieved less while Archie Miller and Underwood are incompletes. Turgeon is a tie. So the reality is starting to become more clear- and while the PAC-12 is full of coaches that have achieved less and even there you have two coaches that achieved far more than Barnes- Miller and Altman and a third coach Hopkins who puts Barnes first two years to same. Really bright coach would have been an excellent alternative to paying Barnes Tom Izzo money. Could have doubled his salary and saved 1.3 million a year.
So basically simply by picking a coach at random from power conferences we could have had a better than even chance of landing someone who outperformed Barnes
 

VolGee4

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Honestly, these types of salaries are why i became disenfranchised with baseball and to an extent football. Basketball is a joke beyond college.

Universities are not on same playing field as gajillionaire pro sports teams. What's at risk here is #1 only upper echelon teams with big time corporate donors continuing these massive dynasties - which will push fans away. #2 State's and Students having to foot the bill for egregious salaries. (Republicans use the term trickle down?) sooner or later **** rolls down hill. Cost of things increases, money comes from somewhere. And i gaurantee you it aint Haslam.

Honestly; i am for a salary cap for college coaches. if they dont like it, go to the pro's.
The difference with college is that the athletic departments have to spend the money. They may have a reserve for special expenditures, but they can’t stockpile money. They don’t have owners or investors, and the money gets spent. It’s why you see P5 schools constantly upgrading facilities. All they have to do is balance their budget.
 

bleedingTNorange

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Per VQ UCLA’s offer to Barnes was actually going to be at $6m and Arkansas called up Barnes and was offering over $4m...you can say we overpaid all day long, but at the end of the day there were 2 schools pursuing him that were also willing to “overpay”.

As I’ve already laid out if Tennessee was to go an hire a replacement at say $4m but have to pay a buyout as well to hire that coach their total investment is right in the same ballpark at Barnes total contract now is.
 

k-town_king

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Bruce Pearl achieved more with tenneseee than Barnes has. This is a fact. That in and of itself kind of destroys the entire premise of this argument clearly you can succeed at Tennessee. Buzz Williams has had a far more successful decade than Barnes has had. In fact let’s go conference by conference. In the Big 12 every coach but Shaka Smart and Boynton has outperformed Rick for the past four years. It’s not even close for most- only with Dixon can you make an argument that maybe Barnes performed on par with him. So that’s a pretty embarrassing result for the 5 million dollar man maybe the ACC will yeild better result for the old underachiever. Here Barnes does a little bit better he’s had a better four years than Danny Manning Josh Pastner Jim Christian and possibly Brownell- id say no because the ACC is such a hard conference but it’s a toss up. Keatts and Cappell are incomplete although Keatts first two years have been light years better than Barnes. So not much to justify five million yet let’s head over to the Big 10. Here finally Barnes hasn’t achieved less than a majority of the coaches. Pitino McCaffery Chambers Collins Miles Piekiel all achieved less while Archie Miller and Underwood are incompletes. Turgeon is a tie. So the reality is starting to become more clear- and while the PAC-12 is full of coaches that have achieved less and even there you have two coaches that achieved far more than Barnes- Miller and Altman and a third coach Hopkins who puts Barnes first two years to same. Really bright coach would have been an excellent alternative to paying Barnes Tom Izzo money. Could have doubled his salary and saved 1.3 million a year.
So basically simply by picking a coach at random from power conferences we could have had a better than even chance of landing someone who outperformed Barnes
In what world has Sean Miller accomplished more? Or Dana Altman. What are you even talking about? The only coaches who achieved more than Barnes are the top tier like K, Izzo, Wright, Cal, Boheim.

Sean Miller did great getting put out first round with his dominate number one overall NBA draft pick. Sure.
 

JoAllan

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Bruce Pearl achieved more with tenneseee than Barnes has. This is a fact. That in and of itself kind of destroys the entire premise of this argument clearly you can succeed at Tennessee. Buzz Williams has had a far more successful decade than Barnes has had. In fact let’s go conference by conference. In the Big 12 every coach but Shaka Smart and Boynton has outperformed Rick for the past four years. It’s not even close for most- only with Dixon can you make an argument that maybe Barnes performed on par with him. So that’s a pretty embarrassing result for the 5 million dollar man maybe the ACC will yeild better result for the old underachiever. Here Barnes does a little bit better he’s had a better four years than Danny Manning Josh Pastner Jim Christian and possibly Brownell- id say no because the ACC is such a hard conference but it’s a toss up. Keatts and Cappell are incomplete although Keatts first two years have been light years better than Barnes. So not much to justify five million yet let’s head over to the Big 10. Here finally Barnes hasn’t achieved less than a majority of the coaches. Pitino McCaffery Chambers Collins Miles Piekiel all achieved less while Archie Miller and Underwood are incompletes. Turgeon is a tie. So the reality is starting to become more clear- and while the PAC-12 is full of coaches that have achieved less and even there you have two coaches that achieved far more than Barnes- Miller and Altman and a third coach Hopkins who puts Barnes first two years to same. Really bright coach would have been an excellent alternative to paying Barnes Tom Izzo money. Could have doubled his salary and saved 1.3 million a year.
So basically simply by picking a coach at random from power conferences we could have had a better than even chance of landing someone who outperformed Barnes
People certainly have been making the case for their side of the argument. You say something destroys the premise of the argument.........when really there isn’t even an argument to be made. While this topic may look like a general subjective argument....... it’s not. This whole topic, was a fact based comment, and one that is completely wrong.

“He is not worth 5 million a year.”

Really I think is was 4.7, but UCLA did offer the 5, so either 4.7 or 5 work..........and the He refers to Barnes.

So: Barnes is not worth 4.7 million..........this is not stating an opinion, it’s trying to state a fact, a fact which is totally wrong, therefore there is no argument. Barnes was given 4.7 by Tennessee. Barnes was offered 5 by UCLA; therefore he is worth 4.7 (or even 5 million). Barnes is worth at least 4.7 to Tennessee and UCLA............case closed.

If the title was “many people do not think Barnes is worth 5 million” then there is an argument to be had.

If the OP had narrowed his topic saying: “based on recent success and failures, I don’t believe Barnes is worth 5/4.7 million........then it would be subjective, and arguments could be made on either side. However he/she didn’t and this entire discussion is for nothing.......as the topic is false.
 

jackcrevol

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The difference with college is that the athletic departments have to spend the money. They may have a reserve for special expenditures, but they can’t stockpile money. They don’t have owners or investors, and the money gets spent. It’s why you see P5 schools constantly upgrading facilities. All they have to do is balance their budget.
bc we help them balance that budget, both as residents - and, as alumni.
 

VolGee4

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bc we help them balance that budget, both as residents - and, as alumni.
Yea, well, that’s part of being a college athletic department. I am not sure how we do as residents. I would have to think about it, but how do tax dollars go toward the AD budget? Conference money, donors, tickets, and merchandise.

But my point about the rise in coach’s salaries is that AD’s have to spend money.
 

JoAllan

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Lol imagine thinking you have a subtle enough mind to actually mount and argument based on shades of meaning. The fact is someone stating Barnes isn’t worth 5 million is exactly like someone saying it’s hot out here. The difference being you don’t have a totemic obsequience to climate.
I find it funny, you mentioned subjective/objective yet you have no clue.

The statement: Barnes is not worth 5 million, is in no way subjective.........no matter how much you want to Make it so.

The author simply states, he is not..........that is a fact based statement.........and one that is wrong, and proven to be wrong, because both Tennessee and UCLA gave him an offer (which he accepted Tennessee’s)

I’m sorry your trying little mind cannot understand...........but it is what it is........”Barnes is not worth 4.7/5 million” is a false statement.

I can also say: Barnes is worth 4.7 million. That statement is objective (provable) as Tennessee felt it was worth it and is paying it.

Make an argument all day. However I’m sorry on this one you can’t win.........because the entire topic is a falsehood. One can never make a legitimate argument against a proven fact.
 

Roustabout

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I mostly agree with everything you've said...except I don't think Martin had as bad of a roster year 1.

Martin comes in and has 6 RSCI top 100 players, all of which came from Pearl's recruiting.
Trae Golden - #86
Jeronne Maymon - #73
Jordan McRae - #40
Cameron Tatum - #96
Renaldo Woolridge - #70
Kenny Hall - #62

From Pearl's last season 8 players remained for Matin's frist year. Of the ones that left only 2 didn't graduate and those 2 both declared for the NBA draft (Hopson & Tobias)
His top contributors in year one were Golden, Maymon, McRae, Tatum, McBee, Stokes, Hall, and Woolridge...Stokes was the only one Martin recruited.

Barnes comes in and has 2 RSCI top 100 players
Robert Hubbs - #22
Detrick Mostella - #68/#94

His top contributors in year one were Punter, Moore, Baulkman, Hubbs, Mostella, Admiral, Shembari Phillips....Admiral & Shembari were both freshmen Barnes recruited.

From Donnie's team only 7 remained for Barnes' first year. Of the ones that left only 2 graduated, Carmichael, Owens, and Woodson were all underclassmen that chose to transfer (might have been Barnes' suggestion too I don't know). Galen Campbell I think was a walk-on though not sure why he didn't remain on the team may have been a RS Junior and just graduated too.
Yup, this is how I remember it. Facts. Pearls last year was not indicative of the roster because of the investigation and suspension. Martin didn’t get a goldmine but he didn’t come into a rebuild either.
 

sport3500

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This subject was discussed on the Sports Source this morning and with this contract UT can have stability for a while and Fulmer can worry about fixing the football program and Barnes runs a clean program and attendance has risen the last two seasons at home games and UT does not have to go through a coaching search or pay any buyouts.
 

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