Could Guarantano surprise us? (Merged)

[82_VOL_83]

UT had OL issues. UT had QB issues. Most who take the all or nothing approach... lay all or almost all of the blame on the OL.

The ultimate bottom line for a QB is leading the team to scores. The biggest skill for a QB is decision making. JG has struggled at both. Great completion % do not matter when you're only scoring 20 ppg.

I wish the game would "slow down" for JG. But his decision making and apparent inability to anticipate throws hurts the O every bit as much as OL's missing assignments.

I would have been happy if we could have simply gotten into field goal range most of the time.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I see now that this guy shills JG support in every thread lol

Get used to it.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Generally speaking. I just jump in after you and a few others start declaring JG's "perfection". In the abstract, you all say he isn't perfect... but in the concrete blame everything on someone else or deny that a problem even exists.

By and large, most of JG's critics want him to succeed. We just aren't in denial about his weaknesses.

This should end the conversation, but sadly it won't.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Cliff Notes version:

JG has the potential to be a good, not great, SEC QB. Dual-threat he's not. Give him a good, not great, SEC OL. We already have good, potentially really good receivers and backs. Back it up with a good, not great SEC defense, and we're in a bowl game this year. Maybe a good one.

I miss anything?

I give you a solid B.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Talking out your ass here. Johnson isn’t a WR who will ever make an impact in SEC play regardless of QB play. He just doesn’t bring enough to the table physically. Blaming that on QB play is ignorant.

Oh no.....cue Greazy in 3......2......1.......

 

[sjt18]

How is 62%, 140 rating, and 4/1 td/int ratio with the record for fewest interceptions by a starting UT qb not effective?

Losing record. Only about 20 ppg when he starts.

Now if you want to claim but, but, but... those stats then you kind of back yourself into a corner. Someone blocked on those plays. Someone made a catch... and lots of times a very difficult catch. But what you seem too stubborn to accept is that "managing the O" and "making the right decision on time" is a HUGE part of the job. If you were right and that's all that mattered or even what mattered most then UT would be scoring 40 ppg behind JG. But they aren't... not close.

All with a team with out even one single combine invite. And with one of the worst lines in CFB.

And per norm... you turn on the rest of the team to deflect all responsibility from JG.

The data doesn't support your claims.

Yeah... not scoring points and not winning games is data that supports my claims.

And please stop talking about his freshman year. He was a million times better last year.

Please stop with the straw men. Being "better" than his Fr year is far, far from being an effective SEC QB.

He will be much better this year.

What do you mean? You won't admit that obvious problems even exist. What on EARTH do you suggest he needs to "improve" at?

I truly hope he does improve because he has issues that will hurt the team if he doesn't.

 

[Behr]

Oh no.....cue Greazy in 3......2......1.......

Lol, he's on his way to the ER. After seeing that, he had a vein in his forehead bust.

 

[GAVol]

I see now that this guy shills JG support in every thread lol

This thread is like a bug zapper for entrenched opinion.

 

[Behr]

How is 62%, 140 rating, and 4/1 td/int ratio with the record for fewest interceptions by a starting UT qb not effective?

All with a team with out even one single combine invite. And with one of the worst lines in CFB.

The data doesn't support your claims.





And please stop talking about his freshman year. He was a million times better last year.

He will be much better this year.

I'm sure you are aware of the situation you're in? Its no win for you. No matter how well he does all you're going to get is "I never said he couldn't do it, in fact I said it was possible if .....blah blah blah. Why are you bringing this negative stuff up anyway, you should be happy".

Anything short of lights out, and its...." Some of us have been saying it for 20 years....blah blah blah ...and we were attacked constantly...blah blah blah....and people were mean to us and we got roasted for simply giving our opinions...."

Even though you have taken it "next level" I kinda feel bad for you.

At least if he does do good or great, the other "some of us" will know.

 

[k-town_king]

I see now that this guy shills JG support in every thread lol

It is better to be the one supporting our starting qb than the one bashing him all the time. Right?

Maybe some of you should cheer for Bama and Tua.

 

[k-town_king]

Losing record. Only about 20 ppg when he starts.

Now if you want to claim but, but, but... those stats then you kind of back yourself into a corner. Someone blocked on those plays. Someone made a catch... and lots of times a very difficult catch. But what you seem too stubborn to accept is that "managing the O" and "making the right decision on time" is a HUGE part of the job. If you were right and that's all that mattered or even what mattered most then UT would be scoring 40 ppg behind JG. But they aren't... not close.

And per norm... you turn on the rest of the team to deflect all responsibility from JG.

Yeah... not scoring points and not winning games is data that supports my claims.

Please stop with the straw men. Being "better" than his Fr year is far, far from being an effective SEC QB.

What do you mean? You won't admit that obvious problems even exist. What on EARTH do you suggest he needs to "improve" at?

I truly hope he does improve because he has issues that will hurt the team if he doesn't.

So your argument comes down to TEAM record and TEAM ppg?

JG can't throw, catch, block, tackle, and defend passes.

I guess we should have scored 30 ppg and won 10 games with a terrible line and the lone SEC roster with zero combine invites.

Sure thing pal.

 

[sjt18]

It is better to be the one supporting our starting qb than the one bashing him all the time. Right?

Not when you throw the rest of the team under the bus to maintain that JG does no wrong. And no, your generalizations that he "isn't perfect" do not constitute objectivity.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Not really but whatever.

False. Either you weren’t capable of understanding the point I was making or you were making a s***ty straw man argument. Those are the only two ways you could take

Johnson isn’t a WR who will ever make an impact in SEC play regardless of QB play. He just doesn’t bring enough to the table physically. Blaming that on QB play is ignorant.

And turn it into

You mean it doesn't matter if the QB makes the right read or delivers the ball on time... the WR should make up for it?

Go ahead and deny it if it makes you feel better, though.

It is his fault that he doesn't throw receivers open including BJ. It is especially difficult for guys who depend on running a route well and having the QB throw to a spot. Jennings is another guy who isn't going to outrun anyone but can be pretty good if the ball is thrown on time.

We agree that JG didn’t do a good job of anticipating and throwing guys open last year. But the best QB in the world can’t throw open a WR who’s standing on the sideline.

BJ’s production went down in 2018 because his snaps were greatly decreased. His snaps were decreased because JJ and Callaway were healthy most of the season, Palmer made a lot of improvement as a sophomore, Murphy brings more to the table athletically in the slot, and Byrd is a much better blocker than Johnson.

Would JG being deadly accurate have meant BJ’s numbers would have been better? Yeah. But the same can be said about all of our WRs and TEs (and maybe a couple running backs as well).


JG being a better passer wouldn’t change the fact that BJ is, at best, our 5th best WR. He might even be 6th or 7th now that Keyton is on Campus and Tillman will be a year older. Very few teams’ 5th best WR ever have much of an impact (especially if they’re trying to incorporate TEs and RBs into the passing game as well).

 

[sjt18]

So your argument comes down to TEAM record and TEAM ppg?

Right. So your argument is when something goes well it is all JG... but when he FAILS to lead the team to points and wins... it is the "team's" fault?

JG can't throw, catch, block, tackle, and defend passes.

Nor read D's effectively, make decisions quickly, lead receivers open....

I guess we should have scored 30 ppg and won 10 games with a terrible line and the lone SEC roster with zero combine invites.

Sure thing pal.

Are you this dense? You are aware that UT had NO starters or significant contributors available for the draft, right?

 

[sjt18]

False. Either you weren’t capable of understanding the point I was making or you were making a s***ty straw man argument. Those are the only two ways you could take


And turn it into



Go ahead and deny it if it makes you feel better, though.

No need to deny it. Poor QB play or weaknesses hurt WR performance. You can't judge a WR based on a QB's inability to use the talent he has.

I don't care whether he's 1st or 10th best. JG can't anticipate passes and BJ is a receiver whose lack of raw talent makes him dependent on running routes well and having a QB who can place the ball.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

No need to deny it.

That’s literally what you’re doing lol

Poor QB play or weaknesses hurt WR performance. You can't judge a WR based on a QB's inability to use the talent he has.

You can judge a WR based on being buried on the depth chart and physical tools, though.

I don't care whether he's 1st or 10th best. JG can't anticipate passes and BJ is a receiver whose lack of raw talent makes him dependent on running routes well and having a QB who can place the ball.

So you’ve gone from saying that a WR like BJ could “take over a game,” to saying that he lacks raw talent.

Not sure why you’re so intent on making his lack of production out to be a QB issue when it’s very clearly an issue of us having multiple better options than BJ at WR. He’s just not an SEC WR.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

I give you a solid B.

Man, don't I wish you'd been all of my professors when I was taking online college courses at Troy....

JG is as polarizing a QB as I can remember at UT. He's clearly not a dual-threat; has a good arm; seems to be late seeing the receiver coming open; not good at "throwing them open"; good on 50/50 balls, but that's usually more the receiver than the QB; not much on checkdowns; etc, etc, etc. He's feast or famine. Doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him.

OTOH, he's got brass balls and no OL for the last 3 years. Heart of a Lion. I really, really want that young man to do well. Both for him and UT Football. GIve him a solid OL and a dependable back, and I don't think any of the "JG threads" ever get started.

I think Chaney can get the most out of him, if JG will listen. Trust is critical here. If JG buys in, and the OL is at least functional, this could be the year the Vols turn the corner. With JG at the helm.

Too many variables to say for sure, but the pieces are in place. Just have to make them fit. Young team overall, and young teams in the SEC have an uphill battle, but still....the pieces are there. Let's see what happens.

Go Vols.

 

[sjt18]

I'm sure you are aware of the situation you're in? Its no win for you. No matter how well he does all you're going to get is "I never said he couldn't do it, in fact I said it was possible if .....blah blah blah. Why are you bringing this negative stuff up anyway, you should be happy".

And rightly so since very few are arguing that he CANNOT be a good QB... only that he hasn't been.

At least if he does do good or great, the other "some of us" will know.

Yeah and if he doesn't... "some of you" will continue to make excuses.

 

[sjt18]

You can judge a WR based on being buried on the depth chart and physical tools, though.

And if "physical" tools were the only measure of being a good WR then the Jerry Rice types in the world would have never been known.

So you’ve gone from saying that a WR like BJ could “take over a game,” to saying that he lacks raw talent.

In a relative sense, he isn't as big or fast as other players. But witness New England. They had a QB who can read D's and throw to the right spot and a couple of undertalented WR's in the relative sense who are smart and run precise routes. They had the ability to take games over and control them.

Not sure why you’re so intent on making his lack of production out to be a QB issue when it’s very clearly an issue of us having multiple better options than BJ at WR. He’s just not an SEC WR.

JG is weak in some areas. He doesn't read D's well. He doesn't anticipate throws and routes well. How often in two years have they allowed him to just throw slants to slow down the rush? How often does he throw hooks or drags in the middle of the field? Very, very seldom.


If BJ is going to produce it will be because he is smart and runs precise routes... not because he physically dominates. JG isn't a QB at this point who can use a WR like that.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Man, don't I wish you'd been all of my professors when I was taking online college courses at Troy....

JG is as polarizing a QB as I can remember at UT. He's clearly not a dual-threat; has a good arm; seems to be late seeing the receiver coming open; not good at "throwing them open"; good on 50/50 balls, but that's usually more the receiver than the QB; not much on checkdowns; etc, etc, etc. He's feast or famine. Doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him.

OTOH, he's got brass balls and no OL for the last 3 years. Heart of a Lion. I really, really want that young man to do well. Both for him and UT Football. GIve him a solid OL and a dependable back, and I don't think any of the "JG threads" ever get started.

I think Chaney can get the most out of him, if JG will listen. Trust is critical here. If JG buys in, and the OL is at least functional, this could be the year the Vols turn the corner. With JG at the helm.

Too many variables to say for sure, but the pieces are in place. Just have to make them fit. Young team overall, and young teams in the SEC have an uphill battle, but still....the pieces are there. Let's see what happens.

Go Vols.

Did you ever go to Troy on campus? Did you know a Dr. John Tarver?

 

[82_VOL_83]

Man, don't I wish you'd been all of my professors when I was taking online college courses at Troy....

JG is as polarizing a QB as I can remember at UT. He's clearly not a dual-threat; has a good arm; seems to be late seeing the receiver coming open; not good at "throwing them open"; good on 50/50 balls, but that's usually more the receiver than the QB; not much on checkdowns; etc, etc, etc. He's feast or famine. Doesn't seem to be any middle ground with him.

OTOH, he's got brass balls and no OL for the last 3 years. Heart of a Lion. I really, really want that young man to do well. Both for him and UT Football. GIve him a solid OL and a dependable back, and I don't think any of the "JG threads" ever get started.

I think Chaney can get the most out of him, if JG will listen. Trust is critical here. If JG buys in, and the OL is at least functional, this could be the year the Vols turn the corner. With JG at the helm.

Too many variables to say for sure, but the pieces are in place. Just have to make them fit. Young team overall, and young teams in the SEC have an uphill battle, but still....the pieces are there. Let's see what happens.

Go Vols.

I believe JG is bought in. I am not convinced that he has the ability to do what needs doing. He has the raw talent, height, arm strength, accuracy to some extent. I'm just not sure he is a B+ type student.....more a C- kinda guy and if that is the case, no amount of buy in will get him there. And that will be a shame because the guy has taken cumulatively more punishment than nearly anyone on the team and is still committed to us doing well.

 

[Behr]

And rightly so since very few are arguing that he CANNOT be a good QB... only that he hasn't been.


Yeah and if he doesn't... "some of you" will continue to make excuses.

Well that's dumb. I didn't say EVERYONE. Haha.

I guess some will, some will on both sides. Pretty much what I said. What's your point?

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

And if "physical" tools were the only measure of being a good WR then the Jerry Rice types in the world would have never been known.

I said physical tools and being buried on the depth chart. Can’t recall a time when Jerry Rice was ever losing snaps to someone like Tyler Byrd because he wasn’t physical enough to block.

In a relative sense, he isn't as big or fast as other players. But witness New England. They had a QB who can read D's and throw to the right spot and a couple of undertalented WR's in the relative sense who are smart and run precise routes. They had the ability to take games over and control them.

Which undertalented guys? Randy Moss? Gronk or Aston Hernandez? Those physical freaks?

Or guys like Wes Welker, who had 2 thousand yard receiving years in college, and Julian Edelman, who accounted for over 7,000 all purpose yards in 3 years of college?

None of those guys were ever buried on depth charts and all of them bring much, much more to the table.

JG is weak in some areas. He doesn't read D's well. He doesn't anticipate throws and routes well. How often in two years have they allowed him to just throw slants to slow down the rush? How often does he throw hooks or drags in the middle of the field? Very, very seldom.

No real disagreement here. He needs to take big strides forward.

If BJ is going to produce it will be because he is smart and runs precise routes... not because he physically dominates. JG isn't a QB at this point who can use a WR like that.

If he’s ever going to produce, he’ll need to get on the field more. JG being a better passer won’t change the fact that BJ is buried on the depth chart because he just isn’t very good. We have others who bring more to the table. Maybe we’ll see injuries at WR and he’ll get a chance this year, though.

 

[xpsyclonex2002]

JG is a better qb than most of these guys are going to give him credit for. I look at it like this, if most other teams in the SEC had to play with JG as their quarterback, would they be better or worse than they are now? JG would not take Alabama to a national championship. However he could step in at almost any other school and be as good as their current quarterback if not better. The biggest knock is him holding the ball too long. The offensive line has allowed him to get molested in almost every game. You mix those two together and you've got real problems brother. My gut tells me that if our o-line could get their Collective crap together and play better than a Sun Belt Conference team, JG could make a little something out of that time he's holding the ball. If the other quarterbacks around the nation who are so highly touted had the small time window that he has to throw the ball, would they be considered as good as they are? I don't think so.

 

[Vol_Lord_1990]

JG is a better qb than most of these guys are going to give him credit for. I look at it like this, if most other teams in the SEC had to play with JG as their quarterback, would they be better or worse than they are now? JG would not take Alabama to a national championship. However he could step in at almost any other school and be as good as their current quarterback if not better. The biggest knock is him holding the ball too long. The offensive line has allowed him to get molested in almost every game. You mix those two together and you've got real problems brother. My gut tells me that if our o-line could get their Collective crap together and play better than a Sun Belt Conference team, JG could make a little something out of that time he's holding the ball. If the other quarterbacks around the nation who are so highly touted had the small time window that he has to throw the ball, would they be considered as good as they are? I don't think so.

• Tennessee lines up with 3 receivers out wide and the tight end lined up as a receiver inside the hash.
  
  
• Florida is anticipating a long pass on 3rd and long and lines up in 2 deep man coverage (nickel). This is a designed screen by Tennessee (To Tim Jordan). The call is decent because the Florida DBs and LBs will be bailing out and defending the sticks.

• Tim Jordan runs a weak ass route and JG throws a terrible pass right to the defensive lineman that is spying JG. Wood-Anderson ****s up blocking assignment.