Stability wins in the SEC

#76
#76
sjt18 said:
Dooley is probably a better coach of football than given credit. He was left in a hole bigger than his ability at UT... at MU... he inherited Drew Lock. Lock may be the best QB in CFB right now. The players around him aren't very good.

BUT... Lock is now gone and MU has no one like him to step up. Now Dooley gets tested.
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Remember his stupid WW2 story? Shower discipline? As our head coach, he was more of a damn entertainer than the leader we needed. Maybe he is a better coach when nobody puts a microphone in front of him. Perhaps Mizzou needs to keep that in mind.
 
#77
#77
I think DD has always had a good understanding of the game. He probably tried to do too much in his 1st season, which resulted in some bungles such as too many men on the field vs. UNC. He gets bashed for poor recruiting although I think that's mostly based on alleged poor relationships with TN high school coaches were used to three decades of continuity in the Majors/Fulmer era and lack of success recruiting quality linemen relative to our needs. Dooley with a good recruiting staff would probably field a good team.
 
#79
#79
HonestVol24 said:
We lost all stability when fulmer was fired. Throughout sec history when you lose or fire an iconic hall of fame caliber coach there’s most always a 4-6 year period where big time programs have bad/mediocre years before getting back, sometimes it takes even longer. It’s happened to Florida, bama multiple times, Auburn, Georgia etc. whether is was right or the wrong time to fire fulmer has been talked to death. You don’t fire big time coaches unless you have an ace up your sleeve to replace him and we had bad luck with our ace. Now we’re suffering the consequences. Alabama went through the same 10 year stretch prior to saban (although never this bad). Georgia is where they are because mark richt built a stable program. Our fan base would have ran him off long before Georgia did. Kirby didn’t do anything special. Just walked into a loaded roster and kept the ball rolling in recruiting. The 2 best teams in our league are where they are because of stability. Stability makes it possible to recruit at high levels and go to the next level. When Tennessee and Florida ran the sec for a decade or so it was because we were the most stable programs. Until our fan base and administration have patience, which at this point is hard, we’re going to continue to go through the same exact cycle. Firing coaches and wanting them fired year after year doesn’t fix programs, it sets it back even more. Fulmer was brought back to stabilize the program and excerize the patience needed to bring it back. That’s what he’s doing with Pruitt. It’s going to take a few years and multiple classes but I’ll ride with Phil any day of the week. Have patience. Stop being the fire coaches every year fan base. It just makes the process that much longer. We finally have a Tennessee guy running the program again, well be back.
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He hired Clawson and promptly got himself fired.

No one who is a Vol fan has much choice but to "ride" with Fulmer but it seems he's not putting us any further from the cliff of irrelevance.
 
#80
#80
TNnative said:
Remember his stupid WW2 story? Shower discipline? As our head coach, he was more of a damn entertainer than the leader we needed. Maybe he is a better coach when nobody puts a microphone in front of him. Perhaps Mizzou needs to keep that in mind.
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A couple of bad analogies or ones that were hyperventilated over make him a "bad" coach of football?

I remember. I remember Meyer saying he had a dream of him and a recruit winning a NC together. If he hadn't been winning, most of what Spurrier said would have sounded stupid.

Dooley's failures weren't saying a couple of stupid things. It was a complete failure to put the kind of effort and time into recruiting that is needed to win at UT. There's the rumors that he rubbed some coaches the wrong way but most coaches do. All is forgiven if you win. Everything becomes a felony indictment if you don't
 
#81
#81
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think DD has always had a good understanding of the game. He probably tried to do too much in his 1st season, which resulted in some bungles such as too many men on the field vs. UNC. He gets bashed for poor recruiting although I think that's mostly based on alleged poor relationships with TN high school coaches were used to three decades of continuity in the Majors/Fulmer era and lack of success recruiting quality linemen relative to our needs. Dooley with a good recruiting staff would probably field a good team.
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You think the HC is responsible for sending players in and out on a play by play basis? LOL!

By the way, I think Bama had too many men on the field vs. UGA in the SEC CG as did Clemson in the ACC CG. Head coaches, for the most part, aren't running players in and out.
 
#82
#82
MWAVolfan said:
Stability doesnt come from letting a coach stay around too long. Stability comes from hiring the RIGHT coach, who wins football games and GETS to stay around.

Winning creates stability, not the other way around.
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How do you explain Kentucky?
 
#83
#83
JonGrudensAgent said:
He hired Clawson and promptly got himself fired.

No one who is a Vol fan has much choice but to "ride" with Fulmer but it seems he's not putting us any further from the cliff of irrelevance.
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Would’ve been fun to see Clawson’s system in year two and three with Taj Boyd...
 
#84
#84
goooooovols said:
How do you explain Kentucky?
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How do I explain it? They had a "great" year this year... and did what was a major disappointment for Vol fans a couple of years ago. They went 5-3 in conference and failed to win 10 games with the best team they've had in decades... that now loses its best players.


They're stable... but until they do what they did this year... you can't even say they're stable mediocrity.

But if that's truly all you expect of UT football... then we could definitely have that.
 
#86
#86
goooooovols said:
Would’ve been fun to see Clawson’s system in year two and three with Taj Boyd...
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Would have been a blast to see Fulmer and company maintaining the level of recruiting we saw in the first half of his tenure too.

Would have helped if he would have owned his failures instead of promising magic dust to fix things as well.

Would have been peachy if Fulmer would have put a defense on the field that wasnt giving up 40 points a game to FL and AL his last two seasons.
 
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#87
#87
JonGrudensAgent said:
Would have been a blast to see Fulmer and company maintaining the level of recruiting we saw in the first half of his tenure too.

Would have helped if he would have owned his failures instead of promising magic dust to fix things as well.

Would have been peachy if Fulmer would have put a defense on the field that wasnt giving up 40 points a game to FL and AL his last two seasons.
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I’m thankful for the great things he did and choose to believe he could have righted the ship if given the chance imo
 
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#88
#88
sjt18 said:
How do I explain it? They had a "great" year this year... and did what was a major disappointment for Vol fans a couple of years ago. They went 5-3 in conference and failed to win 10 games with the best team they've had in decades... that now loses its best players.


They're stable... but until they do what they did this year... you can't even say they're stable mediocrity.

But if that's truly all you expect of UT football... then we could definitely have that.
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I disagree they have built depth, stability and a winning culture by giving Stoops time
 
#90
#90
Or having top 5 or #1 classes every year helps as well. Anyone wondering why so many Saban assistants can't achieve the level of success once they leave his program, well it's because they can't get that type of talent. Makes your job easier when you can run 5, 6 , 7, maybe 8 NFL guys out there and say go get em boys. We had 5 years of stable with Botch and it went backwards at the end. Stability is good, but you also have to know when to pull the plug. Botch should have never got a 5th year.
 
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#91
#91
hog88 said:
It wasn't only the 2 losing seasons, it was his inability to win against top tier teams/coaches. His w/l record over his last 5-6 years against top 25 teams was abysmal.
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...and not only against top 25 teams, but against just Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. I don't remember the exact record, but he was below .500 against our 3 biggest rivals over the last 5-6 years he was here.

Even if the 2 losing seasons didn't occur, I still think he would've been fired. Richt and Urban in particular had blown his doors off, not just on the field but also on the recruiting trail.
 
#92
#92
05_never_again said:
...and not only against top 25 teams, but against just Florida, Georgia, and Alabama. I don't remember the exact record, but he was below .500 against our 3 biggest rivals over the last 5-6 years he was here.

Even if the 2 losing seasons didn't occur, I still think he would've been fired. Richt and Urban in particular had blown his doors off, not just on the field but also on the recruiting trail.
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The fulmer thing is just what the coach worshippers have diverted to using as a way to put blame on those who prefer to see tangible results from these coaches instead of just crowning them all best coaches in the world because they are our coach.... they’ve been wrong about every coach we’ve had since fulmer and instead of admitting that they take on the temperament of a 5 year old and try to find a way to make it the people who have been right about these last coaches fault.
 
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#94
#94
Alex10 said:
The fulmer thing is just what the coach worshippers have diverted to using as a way to put blame on those who prefer to see tangible results from these coaches instead of just crowning them all best coaches in the world because they are our coach.... they’ve been wrong about every coach we’ve had since fulmer and instead of admitting that they take on the temperament of a 5 year old and try to find a way to make it the people who have been right about these last coaches fault.
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Not exactly sure what you're saying. The degradation of the program under the last 4-5 years of Fulmer is what got the ball rolling on the last 10 years. I know he's seen as the solution now, and I hope he is, but in a way he's helping solve a problem he played a role in creating. He made some mistakes a long time ago and was dismissed, the people brought in after him screwed it up even more, and now he's coming back in to fix it.

The pivotal event in the whole sequence was the departure of Kiffin, because it set the stage for all the bad hires that followed. We were in a position to hire a relatively expensive, big name coach once Fulmer was fired, and we did...Kiffin. It was a swing and a miss. We have not been in a position to hire a big name coach since because of the standing of our program.

If you want to pin the blame for the last 10 years on a single person, it has to be Mike Hamilton. He made the call to hire Kiffin, made it really affordable for him to leave (nobody knew the USC job was going to come open after a year, but nobody thought he'd be here for a long period of time), and rushed to hire Dooley when the prudent call would've been to go the 2010 season with an interim and conduct a normalized coaching search.
 
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#95
#95
05_never_again said:
Not exactly sure what you're saying. The degradation of the program under the last 4-5 years of Fulmer is what got the ball rolling on the last 10 years. I know he's seen as the solution now, and I hope he is, but in a way he's helping solve a problem he played a role in creating. He made some mistakes a long time ago and was dismissed, the people brought in after him screwed it up even more, and now he's coming back in to fix it.

The pivotal event in the whole sequence was the departure of Kiffin, because it set the stage for all the bad hires that followed. We were in a position to hire a relatively expensive, big name coach once Fulmer was fired, and we did...Kiffin. It was a swing and a miss. We have not been in a position to hire a big name coach since because of the standing of our program.

If you want to pin the blame for the last 10 years on a single person, it has to be Mike Hamilton. He made the call to hire Kiffin, made it really affordable for him to leave (nobody knew the USC job was going to come open after a year, but nobody thought he'd be here for a long period of time), and rushed to hire Dooley when the prudent call would've been to go the 2010 season with an interim and conduct a normalized coaching search.
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Agree
 
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#96
#96
HonestVol24 said:
We lost all stability when fulmer was fired. Throughout sec history when you lose or fire an iconic hall of fame caliber coach there’s most always a 4-6 year period where big time programs have bad/mediocre years before getting back, sometimes it takes even longer. It’s happened to Florida, bama multiple times, Auburn, Georgia etc. whether is was right or the wrong time to fire fulmer has been talked to death. You don’t fire big time coaches unless you have an ace up your sleeve to replace him and we had bad luck with our ace. Now we’re suffering the consequences. Alabama went through the same 10 year stretch prior to saban (although never this bad). Georgia is where they are because mark richt built a stable program. Our fan base would have ran him off long before Georgia did. Kirby didn’t do anything special. Just walked into a loaded roster and kept the ball rolling in recruiting. The 2 best teams in our league are where they are because of stability. Stability makes it possible to recruit at high levels and go to the next level. When Tennessee and Florida ran the sec for a decade or so it was because we were the most stable programs. Until our fan base and administration have patience, which at this point is hard, we’re going to continue to go through the same exact cycle. Firing coaches and wanting them fired year after year doesn’t fix programs, it sets it back even more. Fulmer was brought back to stabilize the program and excerize the patience needed to bring it back. That’s what he’s doing with Pruitt. It’s going to take a few years and multiple classes but I’ll ride with Phil any day of the week. Have patience. Stop being the fire coaches every year fan base. It just makes the process that much longer. We finally have a Tennessee guy running the program again, well be back.
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So you are saying UT fanbase would have run off Richt after averaging 10 wins a year for ten years? You think highly
 
#97
#97
VOL_Lyfe said:
Let's see how they do next year without Snell before we anoint them.
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All Im saying is that they have created a program that is no longer the bottom dwellers they use to be.... I think that is due to the solidarity that consistency brings to a program!
 
#98
#98
goooooovols said:
All Im saying is that they have created a program that is no longer the bottom dwellers they use to be.... I think that is due to the solidarity that consistency brings to a program!
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it's a program that has to build up to something. they're not a "reload" program. UK is one of thos programs that will likley have "good" seasons every 3-4 years, and just be one of those up and down programs as they develop players.

i don't see UK as a program that can sustain 9+ win seasons for 5+ years. especially with UGA, TN, FL all heading back in the right direction.

i mean, let's face it....TN, coming off the worst season in program history, just beat the BEST uk football team they've had in 40 years.

that's UK football in a nutshell.
 
#100
#100
MWAVolfan said:
Stability doesnt come from letting a coach stay around too long. Stability comes from hiring the RIGHT coach, who wins football games and GETS to stay around.

Winning creates stability, not the other way around.
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Winning creates stability? Read a sec history book. If your program is in the trash can and has no players How do you win? You recruit, take your lumps for a couple years, build stability and then start winning. The “just hire the right guy, and win right away” attitude is why were here right now in This position. Took dabo 5+ years to build Clemson’s stability and look where they are. He didn’t win to create stability, he got beat a lot and the administration didn’t panic. We would have ran him off after year 3 because we love thinking hiring coaches over And over is the cure. Fans only want quick fixes, it doesn’t exist. Not in this game
 
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