Stability wins in the SEC

#1
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HonestVol24

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#1
We lost all stability when fulmer was fired. Throughout sec history when you lose or fire an iconic hall of fame caliber coach there’s most always a 4-6 year period where big time programs have bad/mediocre years before getting back, sometimes it takes even longer. It’s happened to Florida, bama multiple times, Auburn, Georgia etc. whether is was right or the wrong time to fire fulmer has been talked to death. You don’t fire big time coaches unless you have an ace up your sleeve to replace him and we had bad luck with our ace. Now we’re suffering the consequences. Alabama went through the same 10 year stretch prior to saban (although never this bad). Georgia is where they are because mark richt built a stable program. Our fan base would have ran him off long before Georgia did. Kirby didn’t do anything special. Just walked into a loaded roster and kept the ball rolling in recruiting. The 2 best teams in our league are where they are because of stability. Stability makes it possible to recruit at high levels and go to the next level. When Tennessee and Florida ran the sec for a decade or so it was because we were the most stable programs. Until our fan base and administration have patience, which at this point is hard, we’re going to continue to go through the same exact cycle. Firing coaches and wanting them fired year after year doesn’t fix programs, it sets it back even more. Fulmer was brought back to stabilize the program and excerize the patience needed to bring it back. That’s what he’s doing with Pruitt. It’s going to take a few years and multiple classes but I’ll ride with Phil any day of the week. Have patience. Stop being the fire coaches every year fan base. It just makes the process that much longer. We finally have a Tennessee guy running the program again, well be back.
 
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#6
#6
The Tall Gguy said:
Agree that firing bad coaches has not been the issue... if anything, we've waited too long. It is hiring cheap, unqualified coaches.
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During the Dooley and Butch searches, Tennessee was only in a position to hire cheap coaches.

After Fulmer was fired, Kiffin was not a cheap hire. He was probably the hottest name on the market that year. As the program degrades, it becomes harder and harder to attract a big time name.
 
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#8
#8
05_never_again said:
During the Dooley and Butch searches, Tennessee was only in a position to hire cheap coaches.

After Fulmer was fired, Kiffin was not a cheap hire. He was probably the hottest name on the market that year. As the program degrades, it becomes harder and harder to attract a big time name.
Click to expand...

Kiffin was still in the lower half of SEC HC salary in 2009 so it's not like we exactly broke the bank to hire him. While he had more of a buzz to him than what we normally hire, he wasn't the hottest or best candidate.

We could have opened the checkbook more in 2010 and 2012 but the M.O. for our AD was to hire bargain bin coaches and hope they work out. The AD viewed the coaching hire through a short-term financial statement prism and failed to realize the buyouts/lost revenue from being mediocre far exceeded the cost of hiring a proven candidate....
 
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#9
#9
k-town_king said:
Yea the five coaches in four years or whatever it was hurt Bama for sure.


Maybe we have been cheap. That is the problem. You can fire a coach at anytime if you are willing to pay up for a big name.
Click to expand...

The two most important coaches at Bama have been there since the beginning. Saban and Cochran. Stability matters especially in the most important positions.

But yes we have been cheap. Neither of the last 3 coaches we have had should ever have held a head coaching position here.
 
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#11
#11
BigOrangeMojo said:
Kiffin was still in the lower half of SEC HC salary in 2009 so it's not like we exactly broke the bank to hire him. While he had more of a buzz to him than what we normally hire, he wasn't the hottest or best candidate.

We could have opened the checkbook more in 2010 and 2012 but the M.O. for our AD was to hire bargain bin coaches and hope they work out. The AD viewed the coaching hire through a short-term financial statement prism and failed to realize the buyouts/lost revenue from being mediocre far exceeded the cost of hiring a proven candidate....
Click to expand...

We had Gary Patterson in 2009. Hamilton screwed the pooch.
 
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#12
#12
HonestVol24 said:
We lost all stability when fulmer was fired. Throughout sec history when you lose or fire an iconic hall of fame caliber coach there’s most always a 4-6 year period where big time programs have bad/mediocre years before getting back, sometimes it takes even longer. It’s happened to Florida, bama multiple times, Auburn, Georgia etc. whether is was right or the wrong time to fire fulmer has been talked to death. You don’t fire big time coaches unless you have an ace up your sleeve to replace him and we had bad luck with our ace. Now we’re suffering the consequences. Alabama went through the same 10 year stretch prior to saban (although never this bad). Georgia is where they are because mark richt built a stable program. Our fan base would have ran him off long before Georgia did. Kirby didn’t do anything special. Just walked into a loaded roster and kept the ball rolling in recruiting. The 2 best teams in our league are where they are because of stability. Stability makes it possible to recruit at high levels and go to the next level. When Tennessee and Florida ran the sec for a decade or so it was because we were the most stable programs. Until our fan base and administration have patience, which at this point is hard, we’re going to continue to go through the same exact cycle. Firing coaches and wanting them fired year after year doesn’t fix programs, it sets it back even more. Fulmer was brought back to stabilize the program and excerize the patience needed to bring it back. That’s what he’s doing with Pruitt. It’s going to take a few years and multiple classes but I’ll ride with Phil any day of the week. Have patience. Stop being the fire coaches every year fan base. It just makes the process that much longer. We finally have a Tennessee guy running the program again, well be back.
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You could add LSU, they went through a huge cycle of coaches in the 80's and even the early 90's. And yes it has and does happen many times after losing a coach that has had success during his time there, LSU had hired a big time coach in the early 80's and he died in a plane crash and after that they went through a bad and unstable period with more than a few coaches. Bama after Stallings, Georgia after Dooley, Tennessee after Fulmer. And of course Auburn after Dye.
 
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#13
#13
BigOrangeTrain said:
The two most important coaches at Bama have been there since the beginning. Saban and Cochran. Stability matters especially in the most important positions.

But yes we have been cheap. Neither of the last 3 coaches we have had should ever have held a head coaching position here.
Click to expand...


That wasn't the beginning though. He was the fifth coach in seven years. They fired a guy that hadn't been there long to get their guy. The did that until they found Saban.
 
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#16
#16
BigOrangeMojo said:
Kiffin was still in the lower half of SEC HC salary in 2009 so it's not like we exactly broke the bank to hire him. While he had more of a buzz to him than what we normally hire, he wasn't the hottest or best candidate.

We could have opened the checkbook more in 2010 and 2012 but the M.O. for our AD was to hire bargain bin coaches and hope they work out. The AD viewed the coaching hire through a short-term financial statement prism and failed to realize the buyouts/lost revenue from being mediocre far exceeded the cost of hiring a proven candidate....
Click to expand...
Don't look at Kiffin's salary in isolation; his staff was very well compensated. He had the 4th highest salary pool in the SEC for his staff in 2009. Monte alone made $1.2m as a defensive coordinator, which was basically unheard of at that time. You had Urban/Saban/Richt at the top, then right after than came Kiffin in terms of staff pay. Kiffin was not a cheap, bargain bin hire by any stretch. Unproven, sure, but not cheap. Ever since Kiffin left, we've never been in a position to land some expensive coach.

We absolutely were not in any kind of a position to hire a big name coach after Kiffin left. Perhaps we might have been if Hamilton appointed Kippy Brown or someone else already on staff as interim; he would have had about a year to conduct a full, proper search. Instead he rushed because he wanted to preserve Kiffin's recruiting class and got Dooley. When Dooley was let go, the AD wasn't in the best financial position and the reputation of our program had only further degraded, so we weren't exactly in the catbird's seat to get a whale then either.

The reason we can't hire a good coach isn't because we are cheap. It is because they make dumb hires and dumb decisions.
 
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#18
#18
BigOrangeTrain said:
We had Gary Patterson in 2009. Hamilton screwed the pooch.
Click to expand...
Yep. We were in a position to land a well-known, at least somewhat expensive candidate after Fulmer was fired. Hamilton swung and missed.

Ever since then, we haven't been in a position to land a big name. It isn't because we don't want to.
 
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#19
#19
05_never_again said:
Yep. We were in a position to land a well-known, at least somewhat expensive candidate after Fulmer was fired. Hamilton swung and missed.

Ever since then, we haven't been in a position to land a big name. It isn't because we don't want to.
Click to expand...

Our stomachs would turn if we knew the small amount of money that caused us to choose Kiffin over Patterson.....
 
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#21
#21
BigOrangeMojo said:
Our stomachs would turn if we knew the small amount of money that caused us to choose Kiffin over Patterson.....
Click to expand...
Do you remember the details on that?

From what was reported, Patterson was turned off by Hamilton when he flew out to Dallas and took him and his wife to dinner. He said he could tell that they had already decided on Kiffin and that they didn't think he could handle the big stage. Were there monetary offers that were reported too?
 
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#22
#22
05_never_again said:
Do you remember the details on that?

From what was reported, Patterson was turned off by Hamilton when he flew out to Dallas and took him and his wife to dinner. He said he could tell that they had already decided on Kiffin and that they didn't think he could handle the big stage. Were there monetary offers that were reported too?
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, Patterson was making $1.6MM and wanted to get into the $2.5 range. Hamilton wasn't going to go over $2MM for a HC (that's why Kiffin was right at $2MM). I've had a big time TCU booster tell me to my face "I'm glad you all aren't serious about football since that saved me some money." He was laughing when he made the comment so I would take it with a grain of salt. TCU bumped Patterson up to $2.0-2.1MM the next season.
 
#23
#23
The Tall Gguy said:
Agree that firing bad coaches has not been the issue... if anything, we've waited too long. It is hiring cheap, unqualified coaches.
Click to expand...
BUT, if you look at the coaches we could have hired, the ones that many fans on here wanted, they have not fared so well either. After Gruden (who has not shown anything at Oakland), Petrino was the favorite pick of the majority when we hired Butch. He couldn't even hold on to his Louisville gig. Among other names I remember (prior to hiring Dooley) was Ferenz (maybe the best realistic option we had). He would have been better than others but probably fired by now. Tedford (subsequently fired by Cal), and several others have faded into obscurity, like Brewster, who had some Vol fan support, was later fired by Minnesota. Going back to 2010, who would you have hired? My #1 pick (after Gruden) was Leach. He would have beaten UF, UGA and USCe several times when we whiffed, maybe won the SECe a couple of times, but he probably would have been fired by now as well because he would have had a tough time keeping up in the recruiting wars. But, the program would have been on far better footing. The problem is, who would we have been able to hire who could do better? It's a total crap shoot.
 
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#25
#25
05_never_again said:
Yep. We were in a position to land a well-known, at least somewhat expensive candidate after Fulmer was fired. Hamilton swung and missed.

Ever since then, we haven't been in a position to land a big name. It isn't because we don't want to.
Click to expand...

Not so sure we would have been able to land Patterson and not too sure he would have been successful enough. Granted he would have been better than other options we had, but no one has been able to pull him away from TCU. I think he's very comfortable there and would not be comfortable at a program where the pressure to win is much greater.
 
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