Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#68,427
#68,427
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Did he though? How many of those 4 stars did he compete with Ga and Bama for? They may have been 4 stars, but most of them were the overrated guys nobody else was after that he knew he could get easy. There were some, but those were few. Just look at the play of the tean
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Bass how can you blame highly rated players who had bad coaching and poor techniques? we will never know how good they could have been because of that reason,if these same recruits went to another SEC school I think things would have turned out different for all of them.
 
#68,428
#68,428
Look I'm as disappointed as everyone else on the recruiting front, but we have a first time HC undertaking a major rebuild, Butch recruited well to begin with because he didn't have the recruiting limitations and early signing period to deal with, he also had a damn good S&C with Lawson that I think helped jumpstart everything for him, I think Pruitt can be the guy but a first time HC isn't going to fix this mess in one or two years. He still has to find his offensive identity for the team and figure out just how he wants his program structured, what works at Bama may not work here, so he still has to figure things out. That's the risk we took in hiring him.
 
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#68,429
#68,429
millst987 said:
If butch was such a great recruiter why is our roster total crap right now? His classes were full of kids that camped a lot and got stars but had no real SEC offers, fact. Butch was a damn car salesman.
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I donā€™t buy that. Our roster for two years (dobbs kamara Hurd etc.) was widely accepted as the best roster in the east and one that ā€œanyone could win the east or 10 gamesā€ with. Our roster isnā€™t good but i donā€™t buy that butch built that his first few years then every single player he recruited after that was a giant whiff.
 
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#68,430
#68,430
JCP201 said:
I think the legacy thing helped, but we did get Hurd, Kamara, and Smith.
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Agree that Hurd was a good land, but Kamara was a transfer, and Smith didn't sign on until Butch had a couple 9-win seasons. Irrelevant to the difficulties of Pruitt trying to beat Bama/Uga in recruiting with a program coming off 4-8 and 5-7 seasons.
 
#68,432
#68,432
Vols410 said:
Most of the defense on the "playoff rosters" was the same for the 4-8 season last year. The only reason that team was ever considered playoff-caliber was because Butch beat out Arizona St. for Dobbs, Missouri for Barnett, and Vanderbilt for Reeves-Maybin. It's not like he was going head-to-head with Saban getting the recruits he wanted after his first year.

In fact, Wanya would be above anyone in Butch's first full class.
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Hurd. Saban never stopped trying to land Hurd. Butch beat out both Saban and Meyer for Trey. Pretty sure Kongbo was a take too.
 
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#68,433
#68,433
discontent523 said:
Look I'm as disappointed as everyone else on the recruiting front, but we have a first time HC undertaking a major rebuild, Butch recruited well to begin with because he didn't have the recruiting limitations and early signing period to deal with, he also had a damn good S&C with Lawson that I think helped jumpstart everything for him, I think Pruitt can be the guy but a first time HC isn't going to fix this mess in one or two years. He still has to find his offensive identity for the team and figure out just how he wants his program structured, what works at Bama may not work here, so he still has to figure things out. That's the risk we took in hiring him.
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Absolutely, he also took a risk with a job that has a fanbase thatā€™s been lied to for a decade. People frustrated with what looks to be an average recruiting finish isnā€™t surprising. He knows we all want to win and expectations may be unreasonable at times. Itā€™s the SEC.
 
#68,435
#68,435
discontent523 said:
Look I'm as disappointed as everyone else on the recruiting front, but we have a first time HC undertaking a major rebuild, Butch recruited well to begin with because he didn't have the recruiting limitations and early signing period to deal with, he also had a damn good S&C with Lawson that I think helped jumpstart everything for him, I think Pruitt can be the guy but a first time HC isn't going to fix this mess in one or two years. He still has to find his offensive identity for the team and figure out just how he wants his program structured, what works at Bama may not work here, so he still has to figure things out. That's the risk we took in hiring him.
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Yeah, but Pruittā€™s whole thing is that he was going to find 25 guys who could play. And itā€™s a rebuild, correct. So what are we judging him on? On the field record? Recruiting? I guess he gets positive marks for recognizing our strength program needed revamping.
 
#68,437
#68,437
Vols410 said:
Most of the defense on the "playoff rosters" was the same for the 4-8 season last year.
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No it absolutely wasn't


Vols410 said:
The only reason that team was ever considered playoff-caliber was because Butch beat out Arizona St. for Dobbs, Missouri for Barnett, and Vanderbilt for Reeves-Maybin. It's not like he was going head-to-head with Saban getting the recruits he wanted after his first year.
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So would you say he recruited these players that turned out to be all time greats that were wanted by other teams?

Vols410 said:
In fact, Wanya would be above anyone in Butch's first full class.
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Uh, Hurd and Malone were looked at pretty highly.

Look, Butch sucked and I wish he was never hired. But he recruited some all time Vols and built a couple of great rosters here.
 
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#68,439
#68,439
HankHill said:
I donā€™t buy that. Our roster for two years (dobbs kamara Hurd etc.) was widely accepted as the best roster in the east and one that ā€œanyone could win the east or 10 gamesā€ with. Our roster isnā€™t good but i donā€™t buy that butch built that his first few years then every single player he recruited after that was a giant whiff.
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Look, Hubbs has even argued that the majority of the guys Butch recruited were fools gold. Thereā€™s a reason we landed a bunch of these guys that were 4 stars on Rivals, but had no legitimate SEC offers. Butch was trying to keep the fans happy by keeping the class rankings high, and did an excellent job of it. The dude was selling snake oil. Yeah, he hit on couple, even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
 
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#68,441
#68,441
McGeesPub said:
Yeah, but Pruittā€™s whole thing is that he was going to find 25 guys who could play. And itā€™s a rebuild, correct. So what are we judging him on? On the field record? Recruiting? I guess he gets positive marks for recognizing our strength program needed revamping.
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As much as I hate to say it I honestly think he has to take the Muschamp approach at Scar and just show improvement for a couple years, and the make a big jump in year three and four, I just don't know if he will get the time.
 
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#68,443
#68,443
roosterjbh said:
No it absolutely wasn't



So would you say he recruited these players that turned out to be all time greats that were wanted by other teams?


Uh, Hurd and Malone were looked at pretty highly.

Look, Butch sucked and I wish he was never hired. But he recruited some all time Vols and built a couple of great rosters here.
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Exactly you canā€™t flame butch for failing to win the east for two years with those guys and then say he couldnā€™t recruit. Thatā€™s a logical fallacie
 
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#68,445
#68,445
millst987 said:
Look, Hubbs has even argued that the majority of the guys Butch recruited were fools gold. Thereā€™s a reason we landed a bunch of these guys that were 4 stars on Rivals, but had no legitimate SEC offers. Butch was trying to keep the fans happy by keeping the class rankings high, and did an excellent job of it. The dude was selling snake oil. Yeah, he hit on couple, even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally.
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So youā€™re saying he did a good job getting to two 9 win seasons with that roster? Didnā€™t really under achieve
 
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#68,446
#68,446
hotcypress said:
To everyone complaining about the staff closing recruiting battles, let's just wait and see how we close once we have a winning record. This staff may be great at recruiting, but they aren't miracle workers. All Saban or Smart has to do is point to the last three years of records and smile. Our guys have to sell hypotheticals, a tradition of excellence (which probably looks like a ghost to someone who wasn't alive when we won the Natty), and playing time. I'm convinced that playing time is overrated when it comes to recruits because all of these recruits 3 stars and above have been the man their entire lives. They think they are good enough to start from day one, 5 star roster be damned. Can't really explain why Bama loads up 5 stars 3 deep at the same position each year if playing time is such a premium for attracting recruits.
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engineerVOL said:
Butch Jones did it.

Jeremy Pruitt should too.

No excuses.
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For the record, I'm not trying to argue that Butch was a bad recruiter. I'm simply trying to back up the first poster in this exchange.

Butch landed good players, but in his first class coming off of a 5-7 season it was vastly made up of a bunch of low 4-star guys that he was beating out Missouri/USCe/Vandy for. Several of those turned into quality players (Barnett/Sutton/Dobbs turned out to be great), and he certainly deserves credit for that; but like Pruitt currently, he also had not proven to be able to beat Bama head to head for recruits until he had shown some improvement in the win column. (Phillips/Mckenzie after 7-6, Trey after 9-4 / 9-4)

So if we're going to say that Pruitt should beat Bama for recruits with a 5-7 team because Butch did, it's not a fair comparison because Butch hadn't either at this point.

Also, if we're going to credit Butch's classes because they included fringe 4-stars like JRM/Dobbs/Sutton/Barnett who turned out better than their ranking, we can't discount the guys of similar pedigree that Pruitt has landed, and we've already seen glimpses of that in Alontae Taylor and Bryce Thompson.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit.
 
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#68,447
#68,447
Volnut said:
Villanova says hi!
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This post piqued my curiosity, so I checked Nova's recruiting rankings for the 2014-2017 classes since those were the classes that would have made up the bulk of their NC team last year. I was surprised by a couple of things. For starters they only signed 10 players total in those 4 classes, so I'm guessing that their retention was really good and that they picked up some transfers. The other thing that surprised me was that their highest ranked class in that time period was 28th in 2017 according to 247 (although their 2018 class was ranked 9th and the 2019 class is currently top 5). It's not accurate to say that they are doing it with 3*s though. From 2014-2017, they signed two 5*s, five 4*s, and three 3*s. So, 70% of the players they signed in that period were either 4 or 5 star recruits.
 
#68,450
#68,450
Vols410 said:
For the record, I'm not trying to argue that Butch was a bad recruiter. I'm simply trying to back up the first poster in this exchange.

Butch landed good players, but in his first class coming off of a 5-7 season it was vastly made up of a bunch of low 4-star guys that he was beating out Missouri/USCe/Vandy for. Several of those turned into quality players (Barnett/Sutton/Dobbs turned out to be great), and he certainly deserves credit for that; but like Pruitt currently, he also had not proven to be able to beat Bama head to head for recruits until he had shown some improvement in the win column. (Phillips/Mckenzie after 7-6, Trey after 9-4 / 9-4)

So if we're going to say that Pruitt should beat Bama for recruits with a 5-7 team because Butch did, it's not a fair comparison because Butch hadn't either at this point.

Also, if we're going to credit Butch's classes because they included fringe 4-stars like JRM/Dobbs/Sutton/Barnett who turned out better than their ranking, we can't discount the guys of similar pedigree that Pruitt has landed, and we've already seen glimpses of that in Alontae Taylor and Bryce Thompson.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit.
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No one has any issues with taking AT and BT.
 
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