Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#45,401
#45,401
jave36 said:
We've already had a better season than expected. I'd understand if arkansas fires a few coaches after going 2-10 but we've overachieved, despite what I believe is a sub par OC. You fire a coach after 1 season and that season was better than anyone expected, you're going to have a hard time getting a decent replacement. I hate that we hired Helton in the first place, but it would be much worse to fire him or anyone else after this season. He's not so bad that there is no chance he can ever be a good OC.
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We could be 5-7 and the offense is currently 4th worse P5 unit in the country.
 
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#45,402
#45,402
Chief Vol 13 said:
Even if the football program got rolling, I could see him still wanting to blow it up simply because those aren't his people.
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I don't know if the want to will be there, but he got stonewalled at the goaline on Schiano. The perception by the majority of fans and other influential people at UT was "Bad hire, bad fit, bad guy" and Haslem was the reason it almost happened. If Fulmer replaces that with a guy that fixes the program he'll have a ton of support from the fans to the majority of boosters. He may want to, may even try but a successful Pruitt and Fulmer will be darn near impossible to make that happen.
 
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#45,403
#45,403
LSU-SIU said:
Fans are freaking crazy and delusional, actually can't that be said of the world anymore? At the end of the day, not everyone can win, throwing money around like they are peanuts can help, but chances are it won't for most.
The problem is... just because you fire a coach and then hire the next guy at $5 million a year could actually make the situation just as bad if not worse. Tennessee fans are no more crazy than the crazy LSU fan or Alabama fan, the problem is.... maybe there is something wrong with the bigger picture, meaning much of this has gonna out of control.

At the end of the day... the schools are doing themselves a big disfavor if they let the nuts run the asylum... over and over that has happened. I'm sure all those crazy insane fans over in Nebraska would love to have Bo Pelini back.

Crazy insane fans never take responsibility for their wrong calls... they continuously think they are right, no matter how many times they make mistakes... its always someone else's fault.
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100% agree with this! This captures my point of view perfectly.

For Tennessee I think our fanbase is the final hurdle. Need to have leadership that looks past the immediate insanity of our rabid fans and focuses on stability. We are an institution whose football program does best when there is stability. You can’t just walk in here and win 10 ballgames like you can at Florida and Georgia, etc.
 
#45,404
#45,404
chavisut said:
We could be 5-7 and the offense is currently 4th worse P5 unit in the country.
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Like I said, I hope Helton isn't our OC for long and wish he were never hired. But when a team overachieves (no one expected us to even have a shot at a bowl game), you can't fire a coach after 1 single year. No good OC would sign up to come fill his spot because they'd feel like they have no job security. Helton isn't good, and I'm skeptical he'll ever be good. But you have to be horrendously, almost intentionally horrible to be fired after 1 season when you took over a 4 win team, and he's not that bad.
 
#45,406
#45,406
jave36 said:
Like I said, I hope Helton isn't our OC for long and wish he were never hired. But when a team overachieves (no one expected us to even have a shot at a bowl game), you can't fire a coach after 1 single year. No good OC would sign up to come fill his spot because they'd feel like they have no job security. Helton isn't good, and I'm skeptical he'll ever be good. But you have to be horrendously, almost intentionally horrible to be fired after 1 season when you took over a 4 win team, and he's not that bad.
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I don't think we've ever had an OC that most everyone thought was good. You'd have to go back to maybe Cutcliffe, and even then I remember him having plenty of detractors.

That's not a defense of Helton. It just always seems that the the most hated coach on the team is the OC.
 
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#45,408
#45,408
WriterVol said:
I don't think we've ever had an OC that most everyone thought was good. You'd have to go back to maybe Cutcliffe, and even then I remember him having plenty of detractors.

That's not a defense of Helton. It just always seems that the the most hated coach on the team is the OC.
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A casual fan doesn't know how to, for example, tell the difference between a base defense, nickel, or dime package.

A casual fan can, however, yell that the OC should have run or pass in a given situation.

It's so much easier to critique the OC because of that.
 
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#45,409
#45,409
WriterVol said:
I don't think we've ever had an OC that most everyone thought was good. You'd have to go back to maybe Cutcliffe, and even then I remember him having plenty of detractors.

That's not a defense of Helton. It just always seems that the the most hated coach on the team is the OC.
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People seemed to be pretty positive of DeBord once they got past the swim coach theme.
 
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#45,410
#45,410
JAllen18 said:
Kinda hard to judge Helton on this season with this patchwork O-Line. I'd say he's done a decent job here.
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Absolutley. Same can be said for those trying to say Chandler is an average back or has no big play ability. When OL is getting pushed 3 steps into the back field as soon as the ball is snapped makes it kinda hard.
 
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#45,411
#45,411
vol2002 said:
100% agree with this! This captures my point of view perfectly.

For Tennessee I think our fanbase is the final hurdle. Need to have leadership that looks past the immediate insanity of our rabid fans and focuses on stability. We are an institution whose football program does best when there is stability. You can’t just walk in here and win 10 ballgames like you can at Florida and Georgia, etc.
Click to expand...

vol2002 said:
100% agree with this! This captures my point of view perfectly.

For Tennessee I think our fanbase is the final hurdle. Need to have leadership that looks past the immediate insanity of our rabid fans and focuses on stability. We are an institution whose football program does best when there is stability. You can’t just walk in here and win 10 ballgames like you can at Florida and Georgia, etc.
Click to expand...

You’re harping on a false equivalence, essentially. The only time the rabidity of the fan base has affected anything in the last ten years is the Schiano thing. So unless you think that was a negative, the administration hasn’t been held hostage at any point in our spiral by the rabidity of the fan base.

Where the fan base does come in is in the amount of revenue. So what is really a danger is fan apathy, not rabidity. Your message of “F— You Fanbase” is actually quite a bit more injurious to the program than enabling fan rabidity.
 
#45,413
#45,413
jave36 said:
Like I said, I hope Helton isn't our OC for long and wish he were never hired. But when a team overachieves (no one expected us to even have a shot at a bowl game), you can't fire a coach after 1 single year. No good OC would sign up to come fill his spot because they'd feel like they have no job security. Helton isn't good, and I'm skeptical he'll ever be good. But you have to be horrendously, almost intentionally horrible to be fired after 1 season when you took over a 4 win team, and he's not that bad.
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Overachieved is a reach.
 
#45,414
#45,414
LSU-SIU said:
Fans are freaking crazy and delusional, actually can't that be said of the world anymore? At the end of the day, not everyone can win, throwing money around like they are peanuts can help, but chances are it won't for most.
The problem is... just because you fire a coach and then hire the next guy at $5 million a year could actually make the situation just as bad if not worse. Tennessee fans are no more crazy than the crazy LSU fan or Alabama fan, the problem is.... maybe there is something wrong with the bigger picture, meaning much of this has gonna out of control.

At the end of the day... the schools are doing themselves a big disfavor if they let the nuts run the asylum... over and over that has happened. I'm sure all those crazy insane fans over in Nebraska would love to have Bo Pelini back.

Crazy insane fans never take responsibility for their wrong calls... they continuously think they are right, no matter how many times they make mistakes... its always someone else's fault.
Click to expand...

The ReVOLution has unique circumstances. The same people that have been making decisions for the Cleveland Browns are the same people been making the decisions for UT athletics. The same ineptitude that has made Cleveland the laughing stock of the NFL, has systematically torn down the once proud, blue blooded Volunteer football program since about 2002. The same guy that wants Condoleeza Rice as head coach of his franchise (apparently even Condi thinks it’s a bad idea) is the same guy that has continuously been putting bean-counting yes men in charge of UT athletics instead of someone with actual knowledge of sports. Vol fans (but more importantly, all UT money men outside of a certain family) were tired of constantly seeing this kind idiocy destroy the program.

Fans define the success of a program in terms of wins, while the decision makers at UT had been defining success in terms of profit margin and tickets sold; that is the disconnect. I don’t think any of this was so much about breaking the bank for an HC, But more about fans being totally fed up with a decade plus of decisions based on that disconnect. Few other programs have been through such a systematic dismantling of their program, but those that have typically just quit buying tickets while Vol fans took a more proactive approach. I wouldn’t criticize nor expect any other fanbase to put up with same $&@! that we have for the last 16 years or so.
 
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#45,415
#45,415
orangeblood79 said:
It's propagated by national media, and has been for the better part of two decades, beginning with ESPN lauding Woodson over Manning, then Chris Fowler making the "trailer park frenzy" comment that received nothing but vitriol (rightfully so) from this fanbase and then College Gameday refusing to come back to Knoxville the entire year of 98, even after we won the National Championship.

It was doubled down last year with the Schiano debacle and a very loud contingent of our fans expressing outrage on social media and even through their local congressmen...

I'd say it's in our heads but there's DEFINITELY smoke from national pundits of an anti-Tennessee bias.

They love to poke fun of this fanbase, just doesn't help that we give them the ammunition sometimes.
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You're right about the negative bias. I hear it all the time from non-SEC people wondering why the media seems to dislike UT. UT fans amplify it, but the media is quick to create a negative spin. UT has been an underachieving program for a decade and the lack of leadership has been deplorable, so we've given them a lot of material-- and they seldom fail to make the most of it.

I'm sure the SECN has been hyping Vandy all week, hoping for a threepeat.
 
#45,419
#45,419
BeecherVol said:
I don't know if the want to will be there, but he got stonewalled at the goaline on Schiano. The perception by the majority of fans and other influential people at UT was "Bad hire, bad fit, bad guy" and Haslem was the reason it almost happened. If Fulmer replaces that with a guy that fixes the program he'll have a ton of support from the fans to the majority of boosters. He may want to, may even try but a successful Pruitt and Fulmer will be darn near impossible to make that happen.
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If he tries, the fanbase needs to be prepared to make SchiaNO look like a weenie roast.
 
#45,420
#45,420
I like some of Helton's scheme and play calls. At times it is innovative and properly game planned. Other times I have never seen a worse, more predictable mess outside of Butch's gap scheme run game with the fake zone read that faked nobody. Butch helped make Trevor Daniel rich though. Hope Helton avoids that calamity.

CJP knows all of it and when it is off. He's probably held more in than we know. That stank eye is coming more often and you can tell his indigestion may be an ulcer soon. Will see what the off season brings. I'm neutral on Helton staying or going. It's too early to cast the net IMO, but if CJP feels it needs to go another direction I'm fine with it since nothing they have tried to do is current roster dependent. The D is coming along and I expect it to get better and better with a top S&C, better players, more experience, etc. Having dad as the AD is fantastic for all UT sports, but especially for football. Strong resource for CJP. I haven't felt this convinced about a HC being my coach since Phil. He just needs to continue to grow into his role and I think we will be forever grateful he took over.

Fans are fans. Whatever. The only times they matter with their opinions is when the united message needs to be sent to the admin. The SchiaNO message was awesome.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody! We start ours this PM.
 
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#45,421
#45,421
BeecherVol said:
If Pruitt is successful and Phil does a solid job running the dept he won't be able to do it. Thankfully. I don't think this is a long term job for Phil, especially if JP is rolling in a few years. He walks away the hero into retirement.
Now if Pruitt fails and or Phil has issues thats a different story.
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I’ll be interested to watch as Phil has to make decisions for other sports. Could conceivably have coaching changes for both basketball programs within the next handful of years.
 
#45,423
#45,423
volatil said:
So what you are saying is someone on the staff will be promoted
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Seems logical on the men’s side for sure. If Barnes wants to hand this thing off to someone they should let him. Lanier is qualified.

Women’s side is different. I could see someone like Kara Lawson being the top target.
 
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