The QB Debate - post South Carolina (merged)

[SobeVol]

if you build a line...
he will throw deep

 

[SobeVol]

KC's longest in the bama game was 40 yds, double JG's this game. 11 YPA vs less than 6 for JG against SC. Your agenda and lies are exposed once again.

he also played against some of the second string dbs, in a different coverage, and with our best player on our team still protecting him. These numbers between games are not not transitive.
KC was not known at stanford as a deep ball passer. Is his arm that much better this year?

 

[SobeVol]

JG is a terrible down field passer and there is way to not see that. Every deep ball he throws the receiver is stopping to catch because he does not have the arm or talent to make the PROPER throw. Chryst's throw to JJ and Byrd were perfect in stride throws. Something we have not seen from JG.

actually the commentators during the game and espn were actually praising his placement of the deep ball throughout the auburn game, so your statement isn't exactly accurate

 

[Volhoops]

Actually statement is still accurate. If his arm talent is so great why are receivers having to stop to catch the ball ? Nobody wants to talk about that or the fact that this has cost UT a couple of TDs during the year because he did not hit them in stride when they were past the DB. It's get open, slow down, catch and get tackled because of the slow down. His receiver talent bailed him out in the Auburn game but that is not surprising because UT has some very good receivers.

 

[Woke]

That's every pass JG threw on Saturday, >=10 in orange, <10 in red, TDs and incomplete passes unmarked.

Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 5 yds to the Tenn 35
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for a loss of 1 yard to the SCaro 40
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 6 yds to the SCaro 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Chandler,T. for 5 yards to the SC34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 6 yds to the SCaro 28 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Eli Wolf for 5 yds for a TD,
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 5 yds to the Tenn 38
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 1 yd to the Tenn 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 4 yds to the SCaro 36 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 4 yds to the SCaro 37
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 16 yds to the SCaro 21 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 12 yds to the SCaro 4 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 6 yds for a TD
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 6 yds to the Tenn 31
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 11 yds to the Tenn 42 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Josh Palmer for 20 yds to the SCaro 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 6 yds to the SCaro 19
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Josh Palmer for 9 yds to the Tenn 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer, broken up by Jaycee Horn
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 16 yds to the SCaro 47 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Brandon Johnson for 3 yds to the SCaro 30
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 15 yds to the SCaro 15 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 11 yds to the Tenn 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 8 yds to the Tenn 46
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 8 yds to the Tenn 49 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 7 yds to the SCaro 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 2 yds to the SCaro 35
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete, broken up by Javon Kinlaw
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 4 yds to the Tenn 39
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 12 yds to the SCaro 49 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Jauan Jennings

So according to these numbers JG had a 71% completion rate vs SC but 2/3rds < 5 yards?? He only had 8 pass completions > 10 yards?

And KC rode the pine the entire game?

If this is acceptable O production to our rookie HC Pruitt then we’re in trouble over the last 3 SEC games.

Need a way to get BOTH JG and KC involved with meaningful minutes down the stretch and stop this counterproductive “either/or” game.

We saw what KC can do in relief vs Bama. Not using KC vs SC may have cost us a winnable SEC E road game. Rookie HC mistake IMO.

We’ve got 4 games left and we need WINS. We’re out of options on D. Just slap a tourniquet on it and stem the bleeding. We’ve got a big option left on O and we need to use it. Pruitt should turn his attention to making that happen. Let Helton design the packages for both QBs and call the plays.

 

[SobeVol]

Actually statement is still accurate. If his arm talent is so great why are receivers having to stop to catch the ball ? Nobody wants to talk about that or the fact that this has cost UT a couple of TDs during the year because he did not hit them in stride when they were past the DB. It's get open, slow down, catch and get tackled because of the slow down. His receiver talent bailed him out in the Auburn game but that is not surprising because UT has some very good receivers.

I have a feeling even Peyton under or over threw the ball upon occasion. I didn’t google it, so it’s just a guess

 

[lexkyvol]

NOT really but ok. I mean you don’t have to get all exclamationy on me, we pull for the same team

yeah, it did

 

[Behr]

Hmmm, so I wonder why JG is 4th in the SEC in yards per attemot?

Come on man, agree, disagree, like or don't like, you have to understand the argument. Playing dumb or just ignoring the argument is the reason it continues.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

The answers are.... "Very possible" and "obviously they think so".

That's intriguing. If true, the coaches must be very down on KC, then.

 

[GAVol]

That's intriguing. If true, the coaches must be very down on KC, then.

I don't think it's that at all. KC just is what he is, a serviceable QB. JG is a serviceable QB with a plus arm and, hopefully, upside.

 

[DVols33]

So according to these numbers JG had a 71% completion rate vs SC but 2/3rds < 5 yards?? He only had 8 pass completions > 10 yards?

And KC rode the pine the entire game?

If this is acceptable O production to our rookie HC Pruitt then we’re in trouble over the last 3 SEC games.

Need a way to get BOTH JG and KC involved with meaningful minutes down the stretch and stop this counterproductive “either/or” game.

We saw what KC can do in relief vs Bama. Not using KC vs SC may have cost us a winnable SEC E road game. Rookie HC mistake IMO.

We’ve got 4 games left and we need WINS. We’re out of options on D. Just slap a tourniquet on it and stem the bleeding. We’ve got a big option left on O and we need to use it. Pruitt should turn his attention to making that happen. Let Helton design the packages for both QBs and call the plays.

And passes that went for a certain yardage don't actually tell us how far the ball was thrown, just how far the play went.

 

[DVols33]

That's every pass JG threw on Saturday, >=10 in orange, <10 in red, TDs and incomplete passes unmarked.

Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 5 yds to the Tenn 35
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for a loss of 1 yard to the SCaro 40
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 6 yds to the SCaro 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Chandler,T. for 5 yards to the SC34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 6 yds to the SCaro 28 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Eli Wolf for 5 yds for a TD,
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 5 yds to the Tenn 38
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 1 yd to the Tenn 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 4 yds to the SCaro 36 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 4 yds to the SCaro 37
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 16 yds to the SCaro 21 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 12 yds to the SCaro 4 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 6 yds for a TD
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 6 yds to the Tenn 31
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 11 yds to the Tenn 42 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Josh Palmer for 20 yds to the SCaro 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 6 yds to the SCaro 19
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Josh Palmer for 9 yds to the Tenn 34
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer, broken up by Jaycee Horn
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 16 yds to the SCaro 47 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Brandon Johnson for 3 yds to the SCaro 30
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 15 yds to the SCaro 15 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 11 yds to the Tenn 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Tim Jordan for 8 yds to the Tenn 46
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 8 yds to the Tenn 49 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Josh Palmer
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 7 yds to the SCaro 38 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Ty Chandler for 2 yds to the SCaro 35
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete, broken up by Javon Kinlaw
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Jauan Jennings for 4 yds to the Tenn 39
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Marquez Callaway
Jarrett Guarantano pass complete to Marquez Callaway for 12 yds to the SCaro 49 for a 1ST down
Jarrett Guarantano pass incomplete to Jauan Jennings

This doesn't tell us how far the pass went just how far the play went which includes pass and run.
Several of those passes were actually behind the line of scrimmage,,,, screens??
And at least 2 of the incomplete passes were overthrows to wide open receivers with no pressure on JG at all.

The reason for short passes was to make up for JG's inability to read the D, pick up the Blitz, get set, and get rid of the ball.
The added pressure the coaches put on JG last week to get rid of it quicker also created 2 bad habits that he now has to deal with.... Squatting and Happy Feet.

If KC plays we win the game... but the koolaid drinkers will not admit it and their heads will pop from just reading this.
Wait for it.......

 

[82_VOL_83]

actually the commentators during the game and espn were actually praising his placement of the deep ball throughout the auburn game, so your statement isn't exactly accurate

The one deep ball Saturday was short and behind. In stride it's a TD. All the KC hate. I dont undrtstand it. The one meaningful game he is in and he scorched the starter and yet the JG chin wipers find every excuse and go as far as making sh*t up to try and discount KC.

 

[dcm3w]

And 96% of those were 10 yards or less.

Can the receivers even get 10 yards down the field without someone disrupting JG in the backfield? Our OL is holding JG back. Of course, JG holds on too long and he needs to throw it away more but what can you do with that line?

 

[OleRockyTopTennessee]

Jesus Christ.. People putting the blame on JG is ridiculous. Majority of our pass plays called are short to mediocre passes...by DESIGN. If you think JG doesn't have the arm to complete passes 10-15+ yards down field you don't understand football nor how to evaluate players. JG had two deep balls to Palmer last night that were catchable. I'd love to see more deep balls but lets remember we don't have any burners at WR. Our 2 fastest are arguably Byrd and Williams. Idk if Williams has even been on the field and Byrd never seems to be a part of the gameplan. That leaves us with possession WR's that aren't gonna beat you over the top.. They're gonna play for position on the deep ball and and go up and compete for it at high point. That is what you call a 50/50 ball. If you think you're gonna be successful throwing a bunch of 50/50 balls every game then well my friend.. that's why you're on the couch eating your cheetos and drinking your natty light instead of an SEC OC. I don't agree with everything Helton is calling but this team is limited to what it can do.. both running and passing. We flat out don't have the dogs on the line to be at the level we want to be at. Back up QB is always the most popular guy to the fans when the team loses.

Your words are jibberish man. I played QB and I have stated my point about the difference between the two looking through a QB’s eyes. Replay the Bama game and you will see the difference between ball placement and proper drop backs. When you learn that, come back and talk. Otherwise, keep sipping on your fruity drinks and watching cartoons.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Has JG ever thrown one away?

Sure seems like he eats it on every QB pressure.

Taking a beating, and killing drives with big losses on sacks, is holding the ball too long.

Yeah, those two he threw nearly into the stands to open receivers on Saturday come to mind.

 

[hUTch2002]

I’m only comparing averages because there’s no absolute in sports. What I saw and see is a QB that can’t take a team and a fan base on his back and say I got this as the most important player on the team. I see no energy surrounding JG. I watched the Auburn replay and let’s all be honest, we did not play great Auburn just played bad. Everyone was ready to crown JG after that game but did he really play that good. Our offense is handcuffed with him at the helm. Unfortunately our team needs more than an average conservative play call QB. I will say I don’t dislike JG, but I need to see that spark. There’s more to being a QB that just completed passes, you have to lead. KC came in to the Bama game and provided a spark. And just to add one thing... I can’t remember many University of Tennessee QBs that weren’t exciting to watch. JG is not for me.

So you’re saying that you think Chryst should start based on him providing a spark on 2 drives against Bama? Guarantano definitely has some issues but I haven’t seen anything from Chryst outside of 2 drives that would make me think he is definitely the better QB. You see it differently and that’s fine but JG played fairly well against both Auburn and SC. Auburn turned it over 3 times including one that we returned for a TD and that’s why we won. But you also have to remember both games were on the road, both teams have been ranked at times, and we were supposed to lose both games. I do think it’s crazy to think JG is anywhere close to some of our past QBs that we all love but he has shown great improvement. Chryst has had every chance to win the job and can’t. Thanks for making your points without resorting to being a jerk or name calling. I’ll gladly discuss topics with you anytime. We don’t have to agree.

 

[hUTch2002]

So according to these numbers JG had a 71% completion rate vs SC but 2/3rds < 5 yards?? He only had 8 pass completions > 10 yards?

And KC rode the pine the entire game?

If this is acceptable O production to our rookie HC Pruitt then we’re in trouble over the last 3 SEC games.

Need a way to get BOTH JG and KC involved with meaningful minutes down the stretch and stop this counterproductive “either/or” game.

We saw what KC can do in relief vs Bama. Not using KC vs SC may have cost us a winnable SEC E road game. Rookie HC mistake IMO.

We’ve got 4 games left and we need WINS. We’re out of options on D. Just slap a tourniquet on it and stem the bleeding. We’ve got a big option left on O and we need to use it. Pruitt should turn his attention to making that happen. Let Helton design the packages for both QBs and call the plays.

SC wasn’t letting us throw deep. During the game the commentators even said they do not give up the big play. I believe they were 4th in the country in plays allowed of 30+ yards. So we took what they gave us and we scored TDs on 3 of 8 drives, a FG on another, and controlled the clock well. Guarantano wasn’t why we lost that game and I don’t see how Chryst would’ve improved the play based that game based on what I’ve seen from him this entire year. He had 2 good drives and then Bama adjusted and shut him down.

 

[hUTch2002]

You don’t think we had the better team against SC?

Based on what we saw from both teams last year, who came back, and the games this year I would say SC had the better team. They would’ve even been a slight favorite at Neyland. It’s not a chasm but everything outside of recruiting rankings says SC was the better team. Those recruiting rankings were a snapshot in time and when you lose players and don’t develop players the rankings don’t mean much. I know you didn’t cite the rankings but others have. What did you see before the game that makes you think UT is better than SC?

 

[hUTch2002]

I’m not saying Guarantano is a great QB. He has obvious flaws but I absolutely do not agree that Chryst is clearly better as some assert. In 11 starts, I think I recall that number of starts correctly, at Stanford he only threw for 200 yards twice and he had 8 of the 11 starts where he threw at least 20 passes. So 2 for 8 with a Chryst. Guarantano has 7 career starts with 20+ passes and has 4 200+ yard games and of course the 328-yard game at Auburn. Chryst’s high is about 258 yards. So there’s something objective other than completion percentage that suggests to me Chryst isn’t better than Guarantano. Is he better at certain things? I would say yes. But overall, it is close and Guarantano may be slightly better from what I see.

 

[GAVol]

This doesn't tell us how far the pass went just how far the play went which includes pass and run.
Several of those passes were actually behind the line of scrimmage,,,, screens??
And at least 2 of the incomplete passes were overthrows to wide open receivers with no pressure on JG at all.

The reason for short passes was to make up for JG's inability to read the D, pick up the Blitz, get set, and get rid of the ball.
The added pressure the coaches put on JG last week to get rid of it quicker also created 2 bad habits that he now has to deal with.... Squatting and Happy Feet.

If KC plays we win the game... but the koolaid drinkers will not admit it and their heads will pop from just reading this.
Wait for it.......

Wonder how it is that JG sucks so much that offense is supposedly dumbed down with short passes.... yet his career ypa is longer the Chryst's?

The best guy will play.

 

[DVols33]

Wonder how it is that JG sucks so much that offense is supposedly dumbed down with short passes.... yet his career ypa is longer the Chryst's?

The best guy will play.

You saw the game so if you think throwing only 5 yard or less passes is a passing game then I guess we'll just disagree.
Chryst really hasn't been allowed to show us anything other than the 2nd qarter against bama and while that defense was responsible for putting JG out some still claim is was the 2nd team D (which is probably better than SC's D).
When KC has come into games it is usually with the backup running backs and linemen and the situation was protect the lead by running the ball.... And the 2nd half of Bama was exactly that.. slow it down as to not lose too bad.

I know you and others worship JG, and he has made strides especially with his throwing, but he just isn't it. Doesn't have the eye for playing QB. And I think playing KC at least some would go a long way to settle the issue.

It's not like giving KC, and or other QBs playing time is going to jeopardize our season especially when JG isn't show any leadership on the field.... and for that matter not sure any player out there is at this point.

 

[k-town_king]

You saw the game so if you think throwing only 5 yard or less passes is a passing game then I guess we'll just disagree.
Chryst really hasn't been allowed to show us anything other than the 2nd qarter against bama and while that defense was responsible for putting JG out some still claim is was the 2nd team D (which is probably better than SC's D).
When KC has come into games it is usually with the backup running backs and linemen and the situation was protect the lead by running the ball.... And the 2nd half of Bama was exactly that.. slow it down as to not lose too bad.

I know you and others worship JG, and he has made strides especially with his throwing, but he just isn't it. Doesn't have the eye for playing QB. And I think playing KC at least some would go a long way to settle the issue.

It's not like giving KC, and or other QBs playing time is going to jeopardize our season especially when JG isn't show any leadership on the field.... and for that matter not sure any player out there is at this point.

KC threw passes that were all 5-10 yards through the air vs Bama. So I guess he didn't even attempt a pass against Bama. Lmao.


He threw the same type of passes second half vs Bama on more attempts with just as many drives trying to score as the first half before you claim they gave up.

His first two drives of the second we tried to score and he threw 7 passes in the two drives just like the two drives in the first.

He just didn't get a rac from a wr against a defense that hadnt adjusted yet like happens in the second quarter.

We also had a great passing game vs AUB.

KC has never beat a team that good or even ever hit 200 vs a good team.

6.7 career ypa.

You Chryst agenda guys are funny. Lol

 

[SobeVol]

The one deep ball Saturday was short and behind. In stride it's a TD. All the KC hate. I dont undrtstand it. The one meaningful game he is in and he scorched the starter and yet the JG chin wipers find every excuse and go as far as making sh*t up to try and discount KC.

There is no KC hate at all.
I think he is a valuable back up.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

I do not believe that JG is a great quarterback. He may not even be a good quarterback at this point. While I see him improving in certain areas, I am not overly confident that he will ever be all that great. He just can't seem to slow the game down.

That said, it is pretty difficult for me to concede that Chryst is somehow the obvious answer. Maybe he would be better, but he's only played about 20 meaningful snaps the whole season. The drives that he put together against Alabama were impressive, but it is still a VERY small sample size.

I keep telling myself that there has to be something the coaches see in practice that compels them see JG as the best option.