Deficit up 17%

#102
#102
luthervol said:
It's certainly a combination of congress and the president. I've just always been amused by the portrayal of repubs. as fiscally responsible and democrats as tax and spend. A number of you on this site, to your credit, don't buy into that bs, but the number of people who do is still staggering.

I also get a kick out of the great number of people who claim that all politicians are evil, idiotic liars; that they always have been and always will be, and then those exact same people are the very ones who view the constitution as some type of mystical, infallible holy document written by near gods.
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I'm not under any illusion that the Constitution wasn't set up as a system that would benefit the people who created it. Many of them advocated for, then won, a war against England that was of great personal risk to them but ultimately they knew if they won, they'd benefit. Then they set up a system of private property, due process, courts, religious liberty, etc. (for white men) that benefited them, as they were mostly prominent, wealthy landowners and lawyers. If the Founding Fathers were, say, predominately military officers or technocrats (scientists, engineers, etc.), they would have set up a totally different government, one that probably wasn't as free.

It can be a great system and benefit the people who created it. They aren't mutually exclusive.
 
#103
#103
hog88 said:
"Politicians" are not great and have generally accomplished nothing of substance. We have had some great leaders in the past that have accomplished great things.
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Semantics. Most of those great leaders were politicians.
 
#104
#104
luthervol said:
It's certainly a combination of congress and the president. I've just always been amused by the portrayal of repubs. as fiscally responsible and democrats as tax and spend. A number of you on this site, to your credit, don't buy into that bs, but the number of people who do is still staggering.

I also get a kick out of the great number of people who claim that all politicians are evil, idiotic liars; that they always have been and always will be, and then those exact same people are the very ones who view the constitution as some type of mystical, infallible holy document written by near gods.
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I can see you're no longer interested in discussing debt,spending, and deficits. To your credit the bait you used to change the discussion successfully hooked a few folks.
Gimme an @McDad if you want to have a sincere discussion.
 
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#106
#106
McDad said:
I can see you're no longer interested in discussing debt,spending, and deficits. To your credit the bait you used to change the discussion successfully hooked a few folks.
Gimme an @McDad if you want to have a sincere discussion.
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Sorry about that.
I would support across the board percentage cuts equal to half of the percentage cut to defense.
 
#107
#107
luthervol said:
Sorry about that.
I would support across the board percentage cuts equal to half of the percentage cut to defense.
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Good for you.
Has anyone you've voted for on a national stage had this in their platform?
 
#114
#114
hog88 said:
Has any candidate you supported ran on the promise of spending cuts outside of defense?
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Sure. B. Clinton. He cut more federal jobs than any president. (someone fact check)

McDad beat me to it.
 
#116
#116
luthervol said:
Sure. B. Clinton. He cut more federal jobs than any president. (someone fact check)
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I dont think the fact stands up when scrutinized. They counted military as federal employees. Technically they are but that isnt what most of us think of as Fed employees.
 
#117
#117
luthervol said:
Sure. B. Clinton. He cut more federal jobs than any president. (someone fact check)

McDad beat me to it.
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See my post above, most of the federal jobs he cut were by cutting the military. I don't think he ran on spending cuts, Newt pushed him into cutting in other places.
 
#118
#118
To save us from fiscal calamity, ss and Medicare have to be eliminated, not just cut. Defense needs to substantially cut to provide defense, unlike our current aggressive foreign policy that provides foreign adventure and spoils for the likes of boeing, raytheon, general dynamics, etc.
 
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#119
#119
hog88 said:
See my post above, most of the federal jobs he cut were by cutting the military. I don't think he ran on spending cuts, Newt pushed him into cutting in other places.
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This is my recollection as well. Seems he increased taxes and cut military. Then the rate at which spending increased was dramatically reduced once newt controlled the purse.
 
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#120
#120
McDad said:
This is my recollection as well. Seems he increased taxes and cut military. Then the rate at which spending increased was dramatically reduced once newt controlled the purse.
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There was a massive draw down in the military when he took office, training was curtailed and the personnel cuts were brutal.
 
#121
#121
ajvol01 said:
You can talk rate of increase all you want.

Obama added $9+ trillion to the debt. He essentially doubled the already massive debt in 8 years.

Obama fans need to own that fact.
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Sure, but D's rarely claim to care about fiscal responsibility. This would be like you calling them hypocrites for not closing down Gitmo and them responding "you haven't closed it either and you need to own it."

You just keep supporting fiscally irresponsible politicians while pretending to care. Own it.
 
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#122
#122
midnight orange said:
To save us from fiscal calamity, ss and Medicare have to be eliminated, not just cut. Defense needs to substantially cut to provide defense, unlike our current aggressive foreign policy that provides foreign adventure and spoils for the likes of boeing, raytheon, general dynamics, etc.
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Agree for the most part.

As long as politicians and constituents want to slaughter other sacred cows while feeding their own sacred cows more, we will continue to get what we have gotten.
 
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#123
#123
McDad said:
Agree for the most part.

As long as politicians and constituents want to slaughter other sacred cows while feeding their own sacred cows more, we will continue to get what we have gotten.
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Agreed, I'm all for cutting defense spending as long as they are smart cuts and not just arbitrary. I'm sure there are weapons systems that can be cut, bases that can be closed and so on and so on.
 
#124
#124
hog88 said:
There was a massive draw down in the military when he took office, training was curtailed and the personnel cuts were brutal.
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True. AND spending increased. Think about that...reductions in defense but overall spending increased.
I remember too when Al Gore as VP cast the deciding vote to break the 50-50 vote in the senate to increase the tax on Medicare. Classic tax and spend Dems.
 
#125
#125
hog88 said:
Agreed, I'm all for cutting defense spending as long as they are smart cuts and not just arbitrary. I'm sure there are weapons systems that can be cut, bases that can be closed and so on and so on.
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Of course there is. Trent Lott made sure he brought home the bacon back then by keeping a base (or weapon) funded when the defense dept wanted to scrap it.
 
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