Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#26,652
#26,652
LA Vol said:
The time to fire someone is when you realize they're the wrong person for the job. Keeping someone who can't do what they were hired to do costs more in the long run than cutting a deal to remove them. It benefits both parties to move on without the acrimony that results when the failures become bigger and more visible-- as they inevitably do. Dooley realized this and wanted out a year before it all blew up. Butch would have hung around and taken the program lower without ever admitting he had Peter Principled long before.
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I hope in the future they take care with passing out raises and extensions. May be start by having incentives like 1 million for winning the east or 2 for beating Bama . Makes me sick Butch can run a program into the ground and walk away with 8 million. He did not do a good job folks.
 
#26,654
#26,654
Didn't hear what Ainge said today, but he (and other former players) think some of Butch's players aren't going to get past the negativity. Some will graduate this year, but there are some who won't. It would be better for them, the program and team chemistry if they would transfer after the season.
 
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#26,657
#26,657
volfanngatorland said:
DWA is twice the blocker Engram ever was.

Engram never even tried to block and in the Ole Miss system he wasn’t asked to block often at all. Engram doesn’t have the size or strength. Way different situation.
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And on the flip side DWA isn't anywhere close to Engram in other ways. Hard to be all of the above
 
#26,659
#26,659
LA Vol said:
The time to fire someone is when you realize they're the wrong person for the job. Keeping someone who can't do what they were hired to do costs more in the long run than cutting a deal to remove them. It benefits both parties to move on without the acrimony that results when the failures become bigger and more visible-- as they inevitably do. Dooley realized this and wanted out a year before it all blew up. Butch would have hung around and taken the program lower without ever admitting he had Peter Principled long before.
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It was my understanding he tried to get out after the '16 season. If that was true, they should have helped him out the door then. If someone's heart isn't in it, they're not going to do a good job.
 
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#26,660
#26,660
LA Vol said:
The time to fire someone is when you realize they're the wrong person for the job. Keeping someone who can't do what they were hired to do costs more in the long run than cutting a deal to remove them. It benefits both parties to move on without the acrimony that results when the failures become bigger and more visible-- as they inevitably do. Dooley realized this and wanted out a year before it all blew up. Butch would have hung around and taken the program lower without ever admitting he had Peter Principled long before.
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The only problem with this is trusting the administration to actually make a better hire. All the buyout money to be paid lessens the pool of funds to go out and get the next guy. Most employment situations are not like that because most of us don't have buyouts. Weren't we paying Dooley and Butch while searching for our new coach this year?
 
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#26,664
#26,664
Kingston Vol said:
I thought that was true for a while - and maybe on the whole it is - but I don’t think he’d be an elite recruiter which is what any coach has to be to beat Georgia, Florida and Alabama consistently.
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Eh i disagree tbh. And I’m probably in the minority. But anyone can recruit at a top 15 level here imo. So with leach you would have great QB play too and have a strategic advantage over every coach except for Saban so i think we would go back to 10-2 U pretty quickly if we got leach.
 
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#26,665
#26,665
volfanngatorland said:
DWA is twice the blocker Engram ever was.

Engram never even tried to block and in the Ole Miss system he wasn’t asked to block often at all. Engram doesn’t have the size or strength. Way different situation.
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I’m just talking about the role they want to play.

Both are basically the same size with DWA being a little heavier than engram. Some tight ends are more of a receiver than a blocker. Watch Engram play now for the Giants he is nothing more than a chip block and run a route which is essentially watch DWA wants to be here and quite honestly should be. I don’t want a guy as skilled as he is staying back into block. Let Snail pope do that.
 
#26,666
#26,666
HankHill said:
Eh i disagree tbh. And I’m probably in the minority. But anyone can recruit at a top 15 level here imo. So with leach you would have great QB play too and have a strategic advantage over every coach except for Saban so i think we would go back to 10-2 U pretty quickly if we got leach.
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I don’t think top 15 is good enough - that’s where we’ll disagree. I watched Dooley and Butch hover around that level and fail.

Also, I don’t think Leach would get to that level. Probably 20-25-ish. Not to get political here but his Trump support would be used against him 100% in some of the cities we have to recruit to be successful. Add that in with his weird systems, weird personality, age and the inability to create NFL prospects and I don’t think he would have been a good fit here.

Good football coach though.
 
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#26,668
#26,668
Auburn defense is filthy this year. Lead the nation in points allowed per drive (Bama is #2) and have given up the fewest TDs in FBS (5).

Tall task for a struggling offense weak up front.
 
#26,669
#26,669
LA Vol said:
The time to fire someone is when you realize they're the wrong person for the job. Keeping someone who can't do what they were hired to do costs more in the long run than cutting a deal to remove them. It benefits both parties to move on without the acrimony that results when the failures become bigger and more visible-- as they inevitably do. Dooley realized this and wanted out a year before it all blew up. Butch would have hung around and taken the program lower without ever admitting he had Peter Principled long before.
Click to expand...
I agree with this in private practice. In a public job where your livelihood depends on public perception, you risk serious damage that automatically handicaps your next hire. Relatedly, I have shied away from hires who job hop and have shied away from offers I saw as volatile.

Having said this: fire Dooley after the 2011 UK game and keep Butch after the 2016 Vandy game, even with hindsight at 20/20.
 
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#26,670
#26,670
InVOLuntary said:
It was my understanding he tried to get out after the '16 season. If that was true, they should have helped him out the door then. If someone's heart isn't in it, they're not going to do a good job.
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Sexton was shopping, but Butch's ego wanted more than his abilities warranted. When he couldn't get a big-paying job at a big-time program, he decided he would stay at UT for a few more years until his son graduated. He's only "interning" at Bama to keep his buyout and stay close to his family. I agree-- don't think his heart was in it that last year... and Curry wanted to avoid a coaching search so badly he didn't even care.
 
#26,671
#26,671
Brillovol said:
I agree with this in private practice. In a public job where your livelihood depends on public perception, you risk serious damage that automatically handicaps your next hire. Relatedly, I have shied away from hires who job hop and have shied away from offers I saw as volatile.

Having said this: fire Dooley after the 2011 UK game and keep Butch after the 2016 Vandy game, even with hindsight at 20/20.
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This is correct.

Butch was job hunting after 2015 when the Title IX happened. Maybe you work with him to find another landing spot? I don’t know. After 2016 it was too late - he had hurt his reputation with the tank down the stretch.
 
#26,672
#26,672
LA Vol said:
Sexton was shopping, but Butch's ego wanted more than his abilities warranted. When he couldn't get a big-paying job at a big-time program, he decided he would stay at UT for a few more years until his son graduated. He's only "interning" at Bama to keep his buyout and stay close to his family. I agree-- don't think his heart was in it that last year... and Curry wanted to avoid a coaching search so badly he didn't even care.
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He wanted the Michigan job badly after his first year here when they hired Harbaugh. I think he may have been on their list had Harbaugh turned them down.

I think North Carolina approached him at one point as well - maybe after 2014?
 
#26,673
#26,673
Kingston Vol said:
I don’t think top 15 is good enough - that’s where we’ll disagree. I watched Dooley and Butch hover around that level and fail.

Also, I don’t think Leach would get to that level. Probably 20-25-ish. Not to get political here but his Trump support would be used against him 100% in some of the cities we have to recruit to be successful. Add that in with his weird systems, weird personality, age and the inability to create NFL prospects and I don’t think he would have been a good fit here.

Good football coach though.
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Washington state has actually had some good NFL but yea doesn’t matter anyway. Just a guy i pull for and wish a school with big time recourses would take a chance on him.
 
#26,674
#26,674
Kingston Vol said:
This is correct.

Butch was job hunting after 2015 when the Title IX happened. Maybe you work with him to find another landing spot? I don’t know. After 2016 it was too late - he had hurt his reputation with the tank down the stretch.
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I can see this. If anything came out of the title IX search on Butch then yes, you get rid of him with just cause.
 
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