QB job is Keller Chryst's to lose going into 2nd scrimmage

#51
#51
That's exactly what the podcast says. It's a two-man race but Chryst's to lose going into the second scrimmage. If he does well, then it's his job.
It says the exact opposite. It says they would be surprised if JG is not the qb. How is that the same thing as saying it is Chryst's to lose? It is saying Chryst barely has a shot. That has been what most people have reported. I know Ainge and Swain both say its JG too.

We will know next week. I doubt it will be Chryst though.
 
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#53
#53

I wondered how long it would take you to go into panic mode. WITHOUT having a favorite... and WITHOUT having the information to predict anything since Pruitt has very successfully kept the waters muddy....

Here's my opinion. They did NOT bring Chryst in just to provide competition or a back up. They candidly told him he had a chance to win the job. I suspect they told him exactly what he had to improve on from his time at Stanford to do that. I DO believe they told JG exactly what he had to do to win the job also. It makes perfect sense that JG would have an edge early having gone through spring and knowing the receivers better. It makes sense that KC would close that advantage as he got more time with the team and system even if he's ultimately not the better QB.

The race has gotten tighter. That shouldn't be a shock. I know you'd rather think that anyone who threatens JG's status as starter is pure trash but both KC now and Dormady in the past are talented QB's with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Now the tricky part. Is this just the natural process of Chryst getting comfortable or is he really making a move? We don't know the answer. We aren't privy to that information and judging from the wildly conflicting reports... none of these reporters and insiders do either.

One of the "takeaways" I noticed so far in that pod cast is that this anonymous insider claims to have been told that when JG got scolded he didn't react well. If true... then he could be in real jeopardy of falling behind KC. Pruitt's thinly veiled comment about QB's holding the ball too long... seems to support the idea they weren't happy with him since he's the only one we KNOW has a history of holding the ball too long. Here's a short article inconvenient to your narrative but relevant nonetheless: Tennessee football on the beat: Jarrett Guarantano sacked 6 times per start

As for the stats you like to post ad nauseum as if there's nothing but the numbers to evaluating JG's performance... He took 26 sacks having played roughly half the season. If just 15 of those were potential throwaways and it was likely more than that... his completion % falls to 55.8%. Literally, his failure to make the right play made him look better statistically. If he had been as decisive as Dormady who was only sacked 4 times... you'd be looking at 6 sacks with a 54% completion rate... worse than QD or KC.

Decision making is a CRITICAL QB talent and skill. It was also a glaring weakness for JG last year. Pruitt saw that which likely played into KC being in camp. Now he seems to have pushed JG to see if he's gotten past that problem... and exposed something that has to be fixed if JG is going to be the starter.
 
#54
#54
Guy seems to also imply in that podcast that JG is a whiner when he gets hard coaching. I don't know if this is true but we did see some sulking last season when he didn't start the first game. Whomever wins will be the best guy I don't think they would let a Grad transfer win the job if we wasn't better and vice versa let the sophomore have it if the Grad Transfer was better. I am for whomever wins let the battle continue.
Yeah, he alluded to the one sticking point for all JG haters, the GT game. Does it matter that others that watched the same scrimmage said JG out performed KC even though KC did have his best day. Or does it matter that a 19 year old can grow up in one year? Some around here seem to think they were complete mature adults in their early 20's, I can promise you that not even guys in the military are all that mature at that age.
 
#55
#55
Jarrett Guarantano (Soph.): 6 starts, 4-2, 61.9%. No. 1 DT-QB in 2016.
Keller Chryst (Senior): 7 starts, 8-4, 54%. No. 3 PRO-QB in 2014.

Maybe an honest mistake by that article but JG is NOT 4-2 as a starter at UT. His only W as a starter came in unimpressive fashion vs So Miss. He's 1-5 as a starter.
 
#56
#56
Yeah, he alluded to the one sticking point for all JG haters, the GT game. Does it matter that others that watched the same scrimmage said JG out performed KC even though KC did have his best day. Or does it matter that a 19 year old can grow up in one year? Some around here seem to think they were complete mature adults in their early 20's, I can promise you that not even guys in the military are all that mature at that age.
Yes. Until he proves he's over his maturity issues and his decision making issues and his game management issues... it matters. I've said all along that he has incredible physical talent. He does. His liabilities have been in his head and heart. No "hate" involved. Just an objective understanding and critique. It takes more than a great arm and pretty passes against air to be a good QB. There's the mental part. The decision making. The timing. The savvy. AND the ability to handle negative pressure. If KC proves he is better in that latter part then he will win the job over JG for the same reasons QD did last year.

JG has the highest ceiling. From a physical standpoint, he gives the Vols more. But if he can't master the other parts then he can't be the guy.
 
#57
#57
Yeah, he alluded to the one sticking point for all JG haters, the GT game. Does it matter that others that watched the same scrimmage said JG out performed KC even though KC did have his best day. Or does it matter that a 19 year old can grow up in one year? Some around here seem to think they were complete mature adults in their early 20's, I can promise you that not even guys in the military are all that mature at that age.

I don't think anyone would argue that point
 
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#59
#59
Best case scenario for all of us is that JG has developed well enough to fairly beat out Chryst and be the starter for the next 2 to 3 years.
 
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#60
#60
Yes, it's Chryst's to lose. I explained this in another thread.
Pruitt did not bring in a grad transfer senior from a power 5 school to back up JG. Nope.
If you think coaches are objective you're crazy. So, Chryst will get every opportunity to win the job. What does that mean. He will be put in better play calling position. He will get more slack.
That doesn't mean he isn't the better QB. He may rightfully deserve the job, but i can promise you that every afforded favor is being slanted his way.
If you know what you’re talking about one iota, we hired the wrong guy.
 
#62
#62
Yes. Until he proves he's over his maturity issues and his decision making issues and his game management issues... it matters. I've said all along that he has incredible physical talent. He does. His liabilities have been in his head and heart. No "hate" involved. Just an objective understanding and critique. It takes more than a great arm and pretty passes against air to be a good QB. There's the mental part. The decision making. The timing. The savvy. AND the ability to handle negative pressure. If KC proves he is better in that latter part then he will win the job over JG for the same reasons QD did last year.

JG has the highest ceiling. From a physical standpoint, he gives the Vols more. But if he can't master the other parts then he can't be the guy.
But, you like everyone else, doesn't acknowledge how even players on the team say he stepped up as a leader towards the end of the year, you dont do that without some maturing. Every report we have had apart from this one from Harralson, has talked about how JG is improving in the mental aspect, yet you point to this one report first, confirmation bias much?
 
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#64
#64
Best case scenario for all of us is that JG has developed well enough to fairly beat out Chryst and be the starter for the next 2 to 3 years.
Why? Saying that requires you to know that UT has not or will not bring in a QB with more upside than JG. If he's the established starter considering where UT's program has been for the last couple of years.... then that makes it much more difficult to recruiter a top tier QB.

Also... Pruitt a few times has barely been able to contain his excitement over Shrout. He mentioned he probably has the best arm in the group which is saying a lot considering JG's arm. IMHO, if JG doesn't overcome his decision making and game mgt issues to win the job this year... Shrout will pass him before next August if he doesn't transfer first.
 
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#66
#66
Nobody on VN is going to buy into CJP favoring KC. Helton is getting paid big bucks and I feel he's gonna have a lot of say-so in this matter. Some grad transfers do well and others don't. I can see KC having a slight edge as far as maturity and game management but if it came down to athletic ability and making the correct reads and that was close I'd favor the under classman because he has future potential and more upside. JMO
 
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#67
#67
JG has the highest ceiling. From a physical standpoint, he gives the Vols more. But if he can't master the other parts then he can't be the guy.[/QUOTE]

JG definitely has more zip on the ball, and also obviously faster than KC. Although KC is a good 240 and he dwarfs every other QB we have. He will be a tough kid to bring down. I said it prior and will say again I feel like he was somewhat lazy. Honestly there is no reason he did not come in at his size and age put himself at the top very early. I am by no means taking any of JG's ability away either.
 
#68
#68
But, you like everyone else, doesn't acknowledge how even players on the team say he stepped up as a leader towards the end of the year, you dont do that without some maturing. Every report we have had apart from this one from Harralson, has talked about how JG is improving in the mental aspect, yet you point to this one report first, confirmation bias much?
Sure I acknowledge that as far as it goes. But that wasn't his weakness... was it? It is easier to play the "hero" when you're "the man". Not so easy to hold your head up when you don't get to play as you expect to or you get chewed out for doing something that your coach has (probably) told you repeatedly had to improve if you wanted to play. You could argue that JG was a little "too content" having gotten the starting nod but considering they went 1-5 in his starts.

I WANT the guy to mature and grow into a good QB. But some of you really need to stop being blind to indications that he hasn't. This isn't a situation where close or "improved" is good enough. Taking 26 sacks is terrible but taking even 10 in the situation he had wouldn't have been "good". The QB has to read the pressure and get rid of the ball. Even old chartmaster Butch Jones had statistics showing that sacks kill drives. You KNOW they had to be concerned about both what his holding the ball did to offensive production and to his health. It had to have been a focal point... and it didn't improve.

IF the report is true and the chewed JG out at this late date for holding the ball... that's not good. If they chewed him out, he copped an attitude, and made a mental mistake because of it... that's much worse.
 
#69
#69
JG definitely has more zip on the ball, and also obviously faster than KC. Although KC is a good 240 and he dwarfs every other QB we have. He will be a tough kid to bring down. I said it prior and will say again I feel like he was somewhat lazy. Honestly there is no reason he did not come in at his size and age put himself at the top very early. I am by no means taking any of JG's ability away either.
No reason? What do you mean by that? You can't imagine an advantage for JG having had 3 years with some of the receivers, at least 1 with most of them, and spring ball?

Who do you think was lazy? What caused you to think that?

PS- I don't think either guy is a running QB but both have proven they can move around and make plays with their feet when they absolutely have to.
 
#70
#70
Why? Saying that requires you to know that UT has not or will not bring in a QB with more upside than JG. If he's the established starter considering where UT's program has been for the last couple of years.... then that makes it much more difficult to recruiter a top tier QB.

Also... Pruitt a few times has barely been able to contain his excitement over Shrout. He mentioned he probably has the best arm in the group which is saying a lot considering JG's arm. IMHO, if JG doesn't overcome his decision making and game mgt issues to win the job this year... Shrout will pass him before next August if he doesn't transfer first.
If JG has developed and plays better this year I’m not sure how having a proven QB going into next season could be a bad thing? Just makes no sense. Most elite QBs aren’t afraid of going to a school and competing for the job we’ve clearly seen that the last few years.

Maybe Shrout will turn out to be great, I sure hope he does! I do think we should temper the expectations a little bit though. How many guys have we hyped up as freshman to see them fall on their faces when they hit the field? The list goes on and on a lot due to Butch Jones but still.
 
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#73
#73
Sure I acknowledge that as far as it goes. But that wasn't his weakness... was it? It is easier to play the "hero" when you're "the man". Not so easy to hold your head up when you don't get to play as you expect to or you get chewed out for doing something that your coach has (probably) told you repeatedly had to improve if you wanted to play. You could argue that JG was a little "too content" having gotten the starting nod but considering they went 1-5 in his starts.

I WANT the guy to mature and grow into a good QB. But some of you really need to stop being blind to indications that he hasn't. This isn't a situation where close or "improved" is good enough. Taking 26 sacks is terrible but taking even 10 in the situation he had wouldn't have been "good". The QB has to read the pressure and get rid of the ball. Even old chartmaster Butch Jones had statistics showing that sacks kill drives. You KNOW they had to be concerned about both what his holding the ball did to offensive production and to his health. It had to have been a focal point... and it didn't improve.

IF the report is true and the chewed JG out at this late date for holding the ball... that's not good. If they chewed him out, he copped an attitude, and made a mental mistake because of it... that's much worse.
What indications? Has he played this year? Why tear him down when you have no proof he is even close to the same as last year?
 
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#74
#74
Sure I acknowledge that as far as it goes. But that wasn't his weakness... was it? It is easier to play the "hero" when you're "the man". Not so easy to hold your head up when you don't get to play as you expect to or you get chewed out for doing something that your coach has (probably) told you repeatedly had to improve if you wanted to play. You could argue that JG was a little "too content" having gotten the starting nod but considering they went 1-5 in his starts.

I WANT the guy to mature and grow into a good QB. But some of you really need to stop being blind to indications that he hasn't. This isn't a situation where close or "improved" is good enough. Taking 26 sacks is terrible but taking even 10 in the situation he had wouldn't have been "good". The QB has to read the pressure and get rid of the ball. Even old chartmaster Butch Jones had statistics showing that sacks kill drives. You KNOW they had to be concerned about both what his holding the ball did to offensive production and to his health. It had to have been a focal point... and it didn't improve.

IF the report is true and the chewed JG out at this late date for holding the ball... that's not good. If they chewed him out, he copped an attitude, and made a mental mistake because of it... that's much worse.
So, you know for sure that that happened as stated, even though all other news from camp say otherwise. Why does this one article hold so much sway for you? Maybe because it says what you wanted to hear. Eventhough no one else around the program has been saying that.
 
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#75
#75
If JG has developed and plays better this year I’m not sure how having a proven QB going into next season could be a bad thing?
Let's say UT goes 7-5 which many would consider a "good" season. That makes them a middling program no better than they've been since 2007... with an established QB starter that has 2 years left to play. That is not an attractive situation to a top QB recruit. By and large, those guys fall into three camps. They want to play for winners, play in an O that blows up their stats, or start early. Considering what Pruitt has been saying about Shrout... he could also consider greener pastures rather than sitting behind JG.

Just makes no sense. Most elite QBs aren’t afraid of going to a school and competing for the job we’ve clearly seen that the last few years.
Which programs? UGA? Bama? Teams already playing at a championship level?

Maybe Shrout will turn out to be great, I sure hope he does! I do think we should temper the expectations a little bit though. How many guys have we hyped up as freshman to see them fall on their faces when they hit the field? The list goes on and on a lot due to Butch Jones but still.
Not my expectations. Just my observation of Pruitt's excitement when he talks about Shrout. And Pruitt seems to have a habit of introducing him into the conversation even though he's not really ready to compete for the starting job yet.
 
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