We are an entitled, petty, barbaric country: Handicapped parking shooting

#751
#751
tumscalcium said:
Not in this instance. Not to escalate it to violence. Blind sided. Like a b****.
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Yes he did. BUT he also appeared to disengage. At some point the threat is not present at such a level as to allow for the use of deadly force.

[Youtube]http://youtu.be/T6-fskZimu4?t=45[/Youtube]
 
#752
#752
DynaLo said:
Much to the chagrin of a lot of folks this situation very likely ticks all the boxes under SYG.

Guy gets assaulted and sent airborne with that shove.
Was a threat issued of further bodily harm, "we" don't know but I bet the LEOs there do.
There is a visible disparity of force between assailant and dude on the ground, likely proven buy how far dude got shoved.
Does dude on the ground know for a fact his assailant is retreating or could he appear to be reaching for a weapon?
In fear of further bodily harm the guy draws and fires.

To those stating just drawing the firearm was enough, well that's likely still a felony worth a few years time in Florida. Don't draw it unless you are going to use it.
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Truth.....
 
#753
#753
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Watch the video again and pay close attention to the right side/hand of the victim. As the crazy dude brings the gun out, he blades ever so slightly to where his right side isn’t visible to the crazy dude. If I am the guy on the ground, I see a man who has just assaulted me, I draw my weapon and he blades to me to where I cannot see his hands, I am shooting the guy as soon as he makes a move. The visibility of hands is the most important aspect of self defense. Hands are what hurt you. Hands hold weapons, either real, or imagined. If you cannot see his hands, you have no way of knowing. Compliance is key.

There is a lot of stupid to go around in this one. The lady parking the car where she shouldn’t as well as the crazy dude playing Barney fife. The guy coming out and assaulting the man. This was a disastrous situation all the way around.
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I find it a little ironic that you are calling him the crazy guy.
 
#755
#755
T-TownVol said:
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The shooting does not happen if the shove does not happen......
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We don't know that for sure but you're likely correct. What I don't get is why some excuse the guy for pushing when it's been established that it could cause injury or death but don't acknowledge the right of the shooter to defend himself using an action that could cause injury or death. The fact that the push didn't cause serious injury or death doesn't make the action less dangerous than shooting the guy if the shooter had only grazed him.
 
#760
#760
Blacks would be out gunned.

That idea needs to be sent back to the factory.

How about just be civil and courteous towards those around you as a start?
 
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#763
#763
The losing attorney from the Trayvon Martin case has gotten involved with this case. He is holding a press conference this afternoon. Crump is his name.
 
#764
#764
lawgator1 said:
As above, I go to the burden of proof. Shooter takes stand and says he fired because the guy had come out of nowhere and shoved him to the ground, hard. He looked up and guy was standing there with irate look on his face. He pulled gun and fired out of genuine fear the guy was going to continue. He did not pay attention to a step back or a turn. It happened so fast. He was shocked and acted instinctually to protect himself.

How can the state prove by clear and convincing evidence that his stated fear was unreasonable or unjustified? If its debatable, shooter wins.

That's why the Sheriff did not arrest. In fact, I looked at the statute. The Sheriff is barred from arresting the guy unless he has probable cause that the immunity does not apply.

So he defers to the state attorney. That's the law.
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thanks for that insight LG.
 
#765
#765
ClearwaterVol said:
Yes he did. BUT he also appeared to disengage. At some point the threat is not present at such a level as to allow for the use of deadly force.

[Youtube]http://youtu.be/T6-fskZimu4?t=45[/Youtube]
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It's easy to use hindsight, slow motion and several views of a video to broaden the definition of an unjustified shooting. It's not so easy in 3 seconds after being pushed to the ground out of nowhere.

While the deceased appeared to be backing away from the shooter to us, the view from the shooter isnt going to be as clear. If the deceased pulled his weapon and shot while backing away, what then? This possibility was just as likely as the deceased genuinely backing away and with the deceased being the initial aggressor physically I would lean more toward former.
 
#767
#767
Septic said:
Shooting doesn't happen if Barney Fife doesn't start flapping his gums. He initiated the confrontation.
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Shooting doesnt happen if they werent illegally parked in a handicap spot. I want to say I can do this all day but it kind of ends there..
 
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#768
#768
utvols88 said:
It's easy to use hindsight, slow motion and several views of a video to broaden the definition of an unjustified shooting. It's not so easy in 3 seconds after being pushed to the ground out of nowhere.

While the deceased appeared to be backing away from the shooter to us, the view from the shooter isnt going to be as clear. If the deceased pulled his weapon and shot while backing away, what then? This possibility was just as likely as the deceased genuinely backing away and with the deceased being the initial aggressor physically I would lean more toward former.
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ITT, I have just stated my opinion as a lay person looking at the film. As an attorney, this case is a toss up in my mind. If the vocalizations are also a toss up then I think the prosecutor should probably bring charges. Someone's life was lost under debatable circumstances, it's probably best to let a jury decide
 
#769
#769
utvols88 said:
Shooting doesnt happen if they werent illegally parked in a handicap spot. I want to say I can do this all day but it kind of ends there..
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Nah. The perception of illegal parking doesn't kill people, people kill people. It went sideways as soon as Fife made the decision to confront.
 
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#770
#770
Septic said:
Nah. The perception of illegal parking doesn't kill people, people kill people. It went sideways as soon as Fife made the decision to confront.
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his was verbal. I'd argue it went sideways when it became physical. verbal confrontations dont kill people. physical ones do.
 
#771
#771
Septic said:
Shooting doesn't happen if Barney Fife doesn't start flapping his gums. He initiated the confrontation.
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And if the lady hadn't parked illegally in a handicap spot then he wouldn't have had a reason to confront the lady. He had as much a right to give her ish as she had to park there.
 
#772
#772
Septic said:
Nah. The perception of illegal parking doesn't kill people, people kill people. It went sideways as soon as Fife made the decision to confront.
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And being verbally chatised for parking in a handicap spot without the need doesn't kill people either.
 
#773
#773
InVOLuntary said:
And if the lady hadn't parked illegally in a handicap spot then he wouldn't have had a reason to confront the lady. He had as much a right to give her ish as she had to park there.
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Did he have the reason to continue the conversation for an extended period of time?
 
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#775
#775
InVOLuntary said:
Sure, that's the way it turned out. It's not irrelevant. It goes to whether the shooter was threatened. If you are threatened physically, your instinct is to protect yourself. But what if he'd shot him in the leg. The gun shot had the potential to be less deadly too. What if he'd just grazed him with the round? Both actions had the potential to be lethal. One turned out to be lethal. Exchanging of words had zero chance to be lethal. Can we agree on that? That guy that pushed the other guy made it physical. He's the one that crossed the line.
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I've been shoved. I've never had the instinct to respond with lethal force.
 
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