Recruiting Forum Football Talk [RIP 9.3.2019]

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#326
#326
Ron Swanson said:
No, we get Burrell and Fields and we're 9th this weekend. Not on NSD. We get those 3 top targets and we're top 5 on NSD.
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Gotcha - if we finish top 5 on NSD there will be no concern or anything to complain about.

And again, I don’t think I’m “complaining” at this juncture either. Just pointing out that current standards aren’t going to get it done - and that we need to do better to compete. That’s all.
 
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#327
#327
Kingston Vol said:
I’m not saying that the star system is perfect. But it has proven to be a solid metric of talent. The teams that get the most highly ranked recruits usually perform the best. Especially teams that stay in the top 5. Being ranked 6-15 seems to have a higher degree of fluctuation.

I absolutely believe Pruitt and co. can judge and evaluate talent. But I also believe a group of 5 stars is going to beat a group of 3 stars 99% of the time. And while we’re not sure Pruitt is going to be an effective gameday head coach, nor are we sure Helton and Sherrer are going to be effective gameday coordinators, we just might need to out talent the other team. Again, it’s all up in the air at this point.
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Coaching is what really matters. Butch got back to back top 5 recruiting classes and consistently got embarrassed by teams with worse recruiting rankings.
 
#328
#328
scvolfan7 said:
Coaching is what really matters. Butch got back to back top 5 recruiting classes and consistently got embarrassed by teams with worse recruiting rankings.
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Right? Remember when Bowling Green threw all over us.... Or we almost lost to App State or UMass.....
 
#329
#329
cHiZzLeVOL said:
None of those teams won zero SEC games before their turnaround..... Or had to deal with all the new counter rules in the same year, or had a record of 4 - 8.....

So yeah.... What Pruitt and Staff are doing is absolutely impressive.
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Dooley enters: “No other team has had to deal with a change in the coaching staff so late in the year! We’re laying a foundation! What they’re doing is absolutely impressive!”

Butch enters: “We made one bowl game in three years! You know Dooley wasn’t laying the foundation for these kids! We’re just now laying the foundation! What Butch is doing is absolutely impressive!”

How about we stop making excuses and start getting 5 star studs so we can beat Florida and Alabama by 100 points and compete for championships?
 
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#331
#331
I believe at Tennessee you should land within the top 10 of recruiting classes every single year. To me, that’s elite recruiting. This 15-20 crap isn’t gonna cut it, it’s just not. I believe Pruitt will get it done. His staff is just too damn good imo for it not to be so.
 
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#332
#332
millst987 said:
I believe at Tennessee you should land within the top 10 of recruiting classes every single year. To me, that’s elite recruiting. This 15-20 crap isn’t gonna cut it, it’s just not. I believe Pruitt will get it done. His staff is just too damn good imo for it not to be so.
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Clemson was in the 10-15 range for the beginning of Dabo’s tenure. They developed players, started winning games, and now they recruit as well as anyone in the country. I would rather see us build this thing the right way rather than sign a bunch of fools gold butch jones classes.
 
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#333
#333
Kingston Vol said:
Dooley enters: “No other team has had to deal with a change in the coaching staff so late in the year! We’re laying a foundation! What they’re doing is absolutely impressive!”

Butch enters: “We made one bowl game in three years! You know Dooley wasn’t laying the foundation for these kids! We’re just now laying the foundation! What Butch is doing is absolutely impressive!”

How about we stop making excuses and start getting 5 star studs so we can beat Florida and Alabama by 100 points and compete for championships?
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Don't see where I made excuses for the staff. I stated facts and said what they are doing in recruiting is impressive.

So yeah.

Edit: Also see Florida, they aren't out recruiting us and they had the same record.
 
#334
#334
Kingston Vol said:
Gotcha - if we finish top 5 on NSD there will be no concern or anything to complain about.

And again, I don’t think I’m “complaining” at this juncture either. Just pointing out that current standards aren’t going to get it done - and that we need to do better to compete. That’s all.
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I hear ya but I think the current standards might be different than your perception. Pruitt seems to be a nothing but excellence type of guy. And he even said on NSD that this class will be at the top come NSD '19. IMO, he's showing the progress on the trail to make that happen. We might currently not be in the top 5 in July but if we land most of those top targets we will be or very close to it (Top 10) come NSD.

Also, I think missing on some top talent in December/January gave some the idea that Pruitt can't close top talent. But the reality is that him getting UT even in the conversation with some of those guys, that late in the game, was extremely impressive and a great sign for the future. He's going after elite guys nationally and you don't win all those battles but at least he's fighting them. And he's also big on kids camping, judging their talent with his own eyes, and giving out offers that way regardless of their offer lists or star ratings. I have no problem with that considering his reputation of developing SEC talent and winning championships.

Now, if this winter rolls around and he misses on all those top guys he's after that will be a bad sign. But I see no reason to assume that. Also, if this team goes out there and finds a way to beat WVU and/or UF (especially UF) recruiting will take off. Pruitt showing that kind of improvement in year one, with a roster that's perceived to be awful by most talking heads, will bode very well on the recruiting trail.
 
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#335
#335
scvolfan7 said:
Coaching is what really matters. Butch got back to back top 5 recruiting classes and consistently got embarrassed by teams with worse recruiting rankings.
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Yep. The Clemson style rebuild is our best bet, IMO. Staying in the top 15 recruiting, making sure you hit on the blue chip guys you bring in, coaching the hell out of 3* and 4* guys who fit your system.


Even the weaker classes Butch brought in would have been fine if we’d hit on a majority of the 4* guys we brought in the way Clemson has. Too many of the guys our staff really liked haven’t produced.
 
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#336
#336
scvolfan7 said:
Clemson was in the 10-15 range for the beginning of Dabo’s tenure. They developed players, started winning games, and now they recruit as well as anyone in the country. I would rather see us build this thing the right way rather than sign a bunch of fools gold butch jones classes.
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Agreed.
 
#337
#337
Kingston Vol said:
This has been thrown out ad nauseum for 10 years and has proven to be false. The best way to win is to get the best players. Period.
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The thing is, we are getting good players. Even alabubba takes some 3 stars. If you’re waiting on a class of 25 high 4 and 5 star kids it’s not happening. If by NSD 2019 we don’t have 15+ of those blue chippers THEN you can say recruiting isn’t going well.

I get it tho. You like to be negative. That’s your schtick. We all have our roles I guess.
 
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#338
#338
Kingston Vol said:
Again, I’ll point to the fact that I absolutely believe recruiting will get better as the season progresses and the product on the field is presented. But it is not a given that any of it happens as you seem to suggest it is.

Also, you’ve presented what I assume is the best case scenario - we get all of our top targets on the board - and we’re still only 9th nationally? It isn’t good enough. And not because I’m some jaded Eeyore that can’t see the bright side on anything. It’s because it’s simply not good enough compared to turnarounds at Alabama and Georgia.
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So you’re gonna be disappointed if we finish 9th in the country this year in recruiting? Pruitt’s first full class??
 
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#339
#339
Darth_Shiveman said:
Yep. The Clemson style rebuild is our best bet, IMO. Staying in the top 15 recruiting, making sure you hit on the blue chip guys you bring in, coaching the hell out of 3* and 4* guys who fit your system.


Even the weaker classes Butch brought in would have been fine if we’d hit on a majority of the 4* guys we brought in the way Clemson has. Too many of the guys our staff really liked haven’t produced.
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They weren’t developed the way they needed to be. Lots of flaws in how the previous staff evaluated and developed the players.
 
#340
#340
Kingston Vol said:
Ron, buddy, I get it. You’re inclined to defend anything/anyone wearing that power T. We’ve done this for three football staffs at this point. You defended Dooley and Butch until you couldn’t anymore. That’s your schtick. And it’s great! It gets you a ton of likes on this here message board. I really do commend you for it.

However, it does not change the fact that I believe Pruitt’s recruiting hasn’t been good enough - TO THIS POINT - to bridge the gap between Tennessee and the top competitors in the conference. It doesn’t mean it won’t get better - and I’d actually bet that it will - but up until that point I’m not going to be happy taking these 3 star “diamond in the rough” prospects because “this staff can develop them and identify talent better” that x, y, or z. I’d rather take the 5 star guys everyone else wants. And I want more of them than anyone else gets.

We all have our roles to play, I suppose.
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HOF level condescension there...BUDDY! :clap:
 
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#342
#342
Darth_Shiveman said:
Yep. The Clemson style rebuild is our best bet, IMO. Staying in the top 15 recruiting, making sure you hit on the blue chip guys you bring in, coaching the hell out of 3* and 4* guys who fit your system.


Even the weaker classes Butch brought in would have been fine if we’d hit on a majority of the 4* guys we brought in the way Clemson has. Too many of the guys our staff really liked haven’t produced.
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I would present the argument that Clemson’s success has been inflated by the conference they play in. They’re good and Dabo has done a good job, don’t get me wrong. But I am slightly skeptical it goes the same way if they play in the SEC with an SEC schedule every year. They’d feel much more like Auburn, in my opinion. Good most years but skepticism they ever get over the hump.

They did beat Alabama for a national championship and I’m not taking that away from them. I guess I’m just skeptical they get to that point playing in the SEC. But I don’t know.
 
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#343
#343
Kingston Vol said:
Dooley enters: “No other team has had to deal with a change in the coaching staff so late in the year! We’re laying a foundation! What they’re doing is absolutely impressive!”

Butch enters: “We made one bowl game in three years! You know Dooley wasn’t laying the foundation for these kids! We’re just now laying the foundation! What Butch is doing is absolutely impressive!”

How about we stop making excuses and start getting 5 star studs so we can beat Florida and Alabama by 100 points and compete for championships?
Click to expand...

How bout let’s play a season, sign a full class, THEN see where we are?
 
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#348
#348
Kingston Vol said:
I would present the argument that Clemson’s success has been inflated by the conference they play in. They’re good and Dabo has done a good job, don’t get me wrong. But I am slightly skeptical it goes the same way if they play in the SEC with an SEC schedule every year. They’d feel much more like Auburn, in my opinion. Good most years but skepticism they ever get over the hump.

They did beat Alabama for a national championship and I’m not taking that away from them. I guess I’m just skeptical they get to that point playing in the SEC. But I don’t know.
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I agree, top 15-20 classes might get it done for you at Clemson, but in the SEC that usually means you are 7-9th best in recruiting. We need to be soundly in the top 10 every year to be in the elite tier of our conference.
 
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#349
#349
Kingston Vol said:
I would present the argument that Clemson’s success has been inflated by the conference they play in. They’re good and Dabo has done a good job, don’t get me wrong. But I am slightly skeptical it goes the same way if they play in the SEC with an SEC schedule every year. They’d feel much more like Auburn, in my opinion. Good most years but skepticism they ever get over the hump.

They did beat Alabama for a national championship and I’m not taking that away from them. I guess I’m just skeptical they get to that point playing in the SEC. But I don’t know.
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I get this argument to a certain extent, but the SEC East hasn’t been particularly good until UGA got better last year. Clemson would have been just fine in the East unless maybe their West opponent was Bama. But Bama is a s*** draw for anybody and has kept basically all of their opponents down every year Saban has been there to some extent.
 
#350
#350
millst987 said:
I agree, top 15-20 classes might get it done for you at Clemson, but in the SEC that usually means you are 7-9th best in recruiting. We need to be soundly in the top 10 every year to be in the elite tier of our conference.
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If Clemson was in the SEC East instead of USCe, they’d have been in Atlanta at least 3-4 of the last 5 years.
 
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